I will respond to this they way you would to me. Is this your assertion or do you actually have evidence for this?
For the thousand time…Based on their own traditions.
Totally agree never said he wasn’t honest in HIS private interpretation of that verse.
Any wrong interpretation is “private”, if done by a lay person, or clergy or a council or a pope. Any interpretation that is contrary to Holy Spirit intent is “private”.
So what then does it mean when it says tradition?
OK so what does this mean? So are you saying every time you tell one of us we are wrong here that you know for certain the Holy Spirit’s intent?
I would have to reread, otherwise everything you take it to mean, except it is not fallible, does not have bishop of Rome above other bishops juristicionally, is not automatically , unconditionally speaking the Word of God, and is subservient to His Word/Writ.
The very existence of the Reformation. Even the Catholic Catechism makes reference to those on both sides being to blame.
I was going right to the heart of the falsehood that Luther “changed” Romans 3:28 because of his theology.
I didn’t know that how Germans spoke the German language was Luther’s theology.
Sorry I don’t follow what you are saying here. It seems to be a bunch of words on a page that come to no definitive conclusion, allowing the reader to define tradition an way they like.
Please explain to us again, how scripture was “equal” to Tradition in the year 2AD, 20AD, 33AD, 34AD, 50AD, 100AD, or at any other time before the writing existed, or before the Church canonized those writings.MT1926:
Read what The Lutheran reformers wrote. I posted it.JonNC:
But that is the part that makes no sense. How can scripture “ALONE” be the final norm?
It means that no other norm from Tradition should be considered equal with scripture. Not the councils, not the ECF’s, not even the reformers themselves.
This response sounds exactly like what @goout said when he was making a comparison between a living breathing Christ (the Word) and how the Scriptures need to be a living breathing Word through the Church.
Occam and Biel were Catholic theologians, you seem pretty smart, do you honestly believe these guys were conveying official Catholic Church doctrine and dogma?
Is this suppose to be some kind of defense? It seems you are saying that since he wasn’t taught Thomism he can’t held accountable for his actions? That’s a weird defense.
Wasn’t accusing him of changing it was trying point out that by adding the word allien he “changed” the (“1500 year norm of Tradition”) interpretation of that verse to his own private interpretation.
So are you saying this is how Germans spoke and is how Germans translate that verse to this very day.I didn’t know that how Germans spoke the German language was Luther’s theology.
Please explain to me where I said it was. In fact, I was very clear that it is a post apostolic era practice. But if this is the criteria, perhaps we can talk about other ecclesiastical practices that were not found in that time.
In terms of the hermeneutical principle of sola scriptura, you would be incorrect in that. But if you wish to talk about inequalities in the living community of the Church, we can compare notes.
Please reference where I have said this. Otherwise, please don’t misrepresent my views.
No different than respecting and understanding the CC defining tradition the way they liked.
No, private or non private interpretation has little to do with certainty, or acquiescing it. Private is simply understanding something of Writ that isn’t so. It is apart, or private from the Holy Spirit…like He was not present in the thought process…like a private party…just the person (s) and Writ…the Spirit willing but unable to participate in error because of His perfect nature.
Apostolic oral teaching is the Word of God, the teachings of Jesus Christ as given the apostles personally, and brought to rembrance by the Holy Ghost. Don’t quite see that as “tradition”. Tradition is how the church responds to His Word…so we meet on such and such a day, and do such and such a thing ( read scripture, letters, sing songs, break bread) we baptize in this fashion, we do remembrance of last supper in this fashion, we cease Judaizing/ circumcising, we establish church ministries and offices, we take charitable donations for the church needy, they preach in temple and in homes and on hills, we love and forgive others because He first loved and forgave us, etc, etc…
Not seeing where you are going with this reply here. No one is talking about trying to defend Catholic tradition here. The conversation is about what does the word Tradition mean when the reformers say"norm of Tradition".
That’s good because I am scratching my head trying to understand what you posted here?
Is this definition of private part of your church tradition? Because the definition of private means belonging to a particular person or group.
And we have one head, one cornerstone, and then foundation of the apostles, to which generations of saints have been added as living stones. I beg to differ if one thinks the generations after are as normative, even infallibly,/unconditionally, as the head and His apostles , His Word.
I said, “…that is, people.” In this case, Moses, Aaron, the High Priest, the Judges God “raised up.” There was no Scripture, that is “the Old Testament” for people to interpret. Even among the religious leaders, there was no understanding of a canon of Scripture until the Pharisees decided they need to set a canon down, specifically excluding Christian Jews and with a clear bias (as Pharisees) against Christianity. The next closest thing we have is the Septuagint, which was never canonized, but simply an academic endeavor. However, it is notable that this is the text Jesus used, or seems to have, since his quotes are from that particular translation.
They wouldn’t say they’re creating new tradition; they’d say they’re formalizing an improved or a clarified understanding of existing tradition. For example, formalizing the dogma of Mary’s Assumption in the 1900s. That’s now formally, rather than informally, part of Catholic tradition, but they wouldn’t say that it’s new.