Sola Scriptura

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NotWorthy,

“When one sites 2 Timothy 3:16, it is usually to declare infallibly that the [Catholic Church] is the only authority a Christian needs.”

lol

Apparently you are trying to “read between the lines” rather than accept what is actually being said.

Sola Scripture is not actually a Protestant doctrine. Near as I can figure Protestants began trying to come up with an appropriate definition after Catholics began claiming Protestants believe the Bible contains all knowledge and nothing else is needed.

It’s hilarious, because one false accusation has led to Protestant attempts to define a doctrine that doesn’t even exist! 😃
Then, I ask you again. Can you explain what you are using 2 Timothy to prove, so that I don’t have to read between the lines?

Near as I can figure, beginning with Martin Luther, Protestants have been using the Bible as their authority and throwing out all of the Sacred Traditions and the Teaching Authority of The Church.

I think you’re putting the cart before the horse by claiming that Catholics started this protestantism and Sola Scriptura connection.
 
Then, I ask you again. Can you explain what you are using 2 Timothy to prove, so that I don’t have to read between the lines?
Actually, I think you are the one that brought it up (post #8?)…I was merely pointing out the statement started in verse sixteen is finished in verse 17.

Why is all Scripture profitable? So the man of God will be perfect and thoroughly furnished unto every good works.

Sorry I wasn’t clear.
 
I think you’re putting the cart before the horse by claiming that Catholics started this protestantism and Sola Scriptura connection.
The RC misinterpreted something ML said/did, and they began refuting a doctrine that didn’t exist.

What is laughable is that Protestants began clarifying a doctrine that didn’t exist to defend themselves against attacks. lol
 
The RC misinterpreted something ML said/did, and they began refuting a doctrine that didn’t exist.

What is laughable is that Protestants began clarifying a doctrine that didn’t exist to defend themselves against attacks. lol
Can you give me an example of this?
 
Actually, I think you are the one that brought it up (post #8?)…I was merely pointing out the statement started in verse sixteen is finished in verse 17.

Why is all Scripture profitable? So the man of God will be perfect and thoroughly furnished unto every good works.

Sorry I wasn’t clear.
But the Context of the Thread is “Is the Bible Alone” necessary. I believe I’ve been addressing that. You’re simply claiming that it is a false argument for no church teaches this. I’m quite amazed by your assertion.
 
At a retreat earlier this year at a nearby Abbey, Fr. Patrick, leading one of the workshops said, “The ancients used to say that there are two books of divine revelation. One very large, so large it could not be carried and one smaller. The smaller is the Bible. The larger is nature.”

Can anyone honestly believe in sola scriptura? Which would then negate the miracles of life that surround us, that help reveal the nature of God to us?

Have these people never had a moment when God inspired them or answered a prayer of theirs? Have they not seen it, or have they arrogantly brushed it aside and not given Him the thanks He is due?

I’m not talking an earth shattering “Road to Demascus” event, but anything that makes them look up and want to say, “My God is an awesome God! God is Good…all the time!” They don’t recognize that God is within them and around them there is no emptiness between us, it is filled with God.

Or am I to understand they can only get this from scripture?
…if so…how sad…they are missing so much.
 
Can you give me an example of this?
Of the Catholic Church misinterpreting what Martin Luther has said/done?

OK, off the top of my head, the RC claims ML invented a new doctrine of Faith Alone (Sola Fida) by adding the word “alone” to Romans 1:17.

This is a false assertion. If it were true, then English translations of Protestant Bibles should include the word “alone” - BUT they don’t!

This false doctrine is not part of the Protestant faith.
 
Wait Ginger2, are you telling me that no protestant church teaches Sola Scritura?
 
Sola Scriptura is unsound because it divorces Christian worship from Christian history. Martin Luther simply snipped off 1,500 years of Christian history when he launched his rebellion in 1517. Not a good idea. Nothing can be understood accurately in isolation. That’s really what Bible-based denominations represent to me – communities founded on inaccurate understandings of basic Christianity.
 
Of the Catholic Church misinterpreting what Martin Luther has said/done?

OK, off the top of my head, the RC claims ML invented a new doctrine of Faith Alone (Sola Fida) by adding the word “alone” to Romans 1:17.

This is a false assertion. If it were true, then English translations of Protestant Bibles should include the word “alone” - BUT they don’t!

This false doctrine is not part of the Protestant faith.
Which Church do you belong to so we can at least eliminate that one from our thinking that ALL Protestant Churches believe in Faith Alone.

By the way I don’t think anyone said Luther inserted the word alone into the Bible. What he did was made up the doctrine of faith alone.

I quote Luther’s own words from the paper he wrote called The Freedom of a Christian:

QUOTE

And, to cast everything aside, even speculations, meditations, and whatever things can be performed by the exertions of the soul itself, are of no profit. One thing, and one alone, is necessary for life, justification, and Christian liberty; and that is the most holy word of God, the Gospel of Christ . . .For faith alone, and the efficacious use of the word of God, bring salvation. . . .

Since then **this faith **can reign only in the inward man . . . and since it alone justifies, it is evident that by no outward work or labour can the inward man be at all justified, made free, and saved; and that no works whatever have any relation to him. And so, on the other hand, it is solely by impiety and incredulity of heart that he becomes guilty and a slave of sin, deserving condemnation, not by any outward sin or work. . .

UNQUOTE
 
Sola Scriptura is unsound because it divorces Christian worship from Christian history.
Yes and totally contradicts the holy Scriptures.
Martin Luther simply snipped off 1,500 years of Christian history when he launched his rebellion in 1517. Not a good idea. Nothing can be understood accurately in isolation. That’s really what Bible-based denominations represent to me – communities founded on inaccurate understandings of basic Christianity.
Why don’t you supply a link to the document that ML is supposed to have started SS? I would like to see it, as I have found too many claims concerning Luther to be false.
 
Which Church do you belong to so we can at least eliminate that one from our thinking that ALL Protestant Churches believe in Faith Alone.
I do not belong to a church at this time, sorry.
What he did was made up the doctrine of faith alone.

I quote Luther’s own words from the paper he wrote called The Freedom of a Christian:

QUOTE

And, to cast everything aside, even speculations, meditations, and whatever things can be performed by the exertions of the soul itself, are of no profit. One thing, and one alone, is necessary for life, justification, and Christian liberty; and that is the most holy word of God, the Gospel of Christ . . .For faith alone, and the efficacious use of the word of God, bring salvation. . . .

Since then **this faith **can reign only in the inward man . . . and since it alone justifies, it is evident that by no outward work or labour can the inward man be at all justified, made free, and saved; and that no works whatever have any relation to him. And so, on the other hand, it is solely by impiety and incredulity of heart that he becomes guilty and a slave of sin, deserving condemnation, not by any outward sin or work. . .

UNQUOTE
Thank you for that quote.

First, I have never attended a church that teaches using ML writings. They all have used the Holy Bible.

Second, I think you are reading into ML’s words your understanding based on an assumption.

The Word of God is not limited to the Bible. The Bible is the written Word of God.

Jesus is referred to in the Gospel of John as “the Word”

I’ll take a look at it and get back as to what I think. If Luther taught Bible Only - he was wrong.
 
I do not belong to a church at this time, sorry.

Thank you for that quote.

First, I have never attended a church that teaches using ML writings. They all have used the Holy Bible.

Second, I think you are reading into ML’s words your understanding based on an assumption.

The Word of God is not limited to the Bible. The Bible is the written Word of God.

Jesus is referred to in the Gospel of John as “the Word”

I’ll take a look at it and get back as to what I think. If Luther taught Bible Only - he was wrong.
I know the thread is about Sola Scriptura but my post was in reply to your comment on Faith Alone, not Bible Alone.
However, Luther did teach the doctrine of Sola Scriptura.
He was wrong on both Bible Only and Faith Alone.

Also I don’t understand when you say you don’t belong to a Church. What Christian denomination are you then or what does your profile mean when you say you are Christian?
 
… my post was in reply to your comment on Faith Alone, …
Luther did not teach Faith Alone. That is a Catholic myth that stems from misunderstanding.

When asked about using the word “alone” in Romans, Luther explained in the German language the word “only” needed to be added for clarity and didn’t mean “faith only” is required.

below is an excerpt of his actual words:

“I wanted to speak German since it was German I had spoken in translation - not Latin or Greek. *But it is the nature of our language that in speaking about two things, one which is affirmed, the other denied, we use the word “solum” only along with the word “not” (nicht) or “no” (kein). *For example, we say “the farmer brings only (allein) grain and no money”; or “No, I really have no money, but only (allein) grain”; I have only eaten and not yet drunk”; “Did you write it only and not read it over?” *There are a vast number of such everyday cases…

In all these phrases, this is a German usage, even though it is not the Latin or Greek usage. It is the nature of the German tongue to add “allein” in order that “nicht” or “kein” may beclearer and more complete. *…

We do not have to ask about the literal Latin or how we are to speak German - as these asses do. *Rather we must ask the mother in the home, the children on the street, the common person in the market about this. *We must be guided by their tongue, the manner of their speech, and do our translating accordingly. *Then they will understand it and recognize that we are speaking German to them.

*… So, as the traitor Judas says in Matthew 26: “Ut quid perditio haec?” and in Mark 14: “Ut quid perditio iste unguenti facta est?” Subsequently, for these literalist asses I would have to translate it: “Why has this loss of salve occurred?” *But what kind of German is this? *What German says “loss of salve occurred”? *And if he does understand it at all, he would think that the salve is lost and must be looked for and found again; … *But a German would say “Ut quid, etc…” as “Why this waste?” or “Why this extravagance?” Even “it is a shame about the ointment” - these are good German, in which one can understand that Magdalene had wasted the salve she poured out and had done wrong. *That was what Judas meant as he thought he could have used it better." - Martin Luther

Following this reasoning, the word “only” is appropriate in the German, but would not be appropriate in English translationst.

Since Protestant Bibles do not use the word “alone” in the English translations of Protestant Bibles, it is obvious Luther didn’t start a new doctrine. If he had that word would be found in Protestant Bibles which it is not.
 
Luther did not teach Faith Alone. That is a Catholic myth that stems from misunderstanding.

When asked about using the word “alone” in Romans, Luther explained in the German language the word “only” needed to be added for clarity and didn’t mean “faith only” is required.

below is an excerpt of his actual words:

“I wanted to speak German since it was German I had spoken in translation - not Latin or Greek. *But it is the nature of our language that in speaking about two things, one which is affirmed, the other denied, we use the word “solum” only along with the word “not” (nicht) or “no” (kein). *For example, we say “the farmer brings only (allein) grain and no money”; or “No, I really have no money, but only (allein) grain”; I have only eaten and not yet drunk”; “Did you write it only and not read it over?” *There are a vast number of such everyday cases…

In all these phrases, this is a German usage, even though it is not the Latin or Greek usage. It is the nature of the German tongue to add “allein” in order that “nicht” or “kein” may beclearer and more complete. *…

We do not have to ask about the literal Latin or how we are to speak German - as these asses do. *Rather we must ask the mother in the home, the children on the street, the common person in the market about this. *We must be guided by their tongue, the manner of their speech, and do our translating accordingly. *Then they will understand it and recognize that we are speaking German to them.

*… So, as the traitor Judas says in Matthew 26: “Ut quid perditio haec?” and in Mark 14: “Ut quid perditio iste unguenti facta est?” Subsequently, for these literalist asses I would have to translate it: “Why has this loss of salve occurred?” *But what kind of German is this? *What German says “loss of salve occurred”? *And if he does understand it at all, he would think that the salve is lost and must be looked for and found again; … *But a German would say “Ut quid, etc…” as “Why this waste?” or “Why this extravagance?” Even “it is a shame about the ointment” - these are good German, in which one can understand that Magdalene had wasted the salve she poured out and had done wrong. *That was what Judas meant as he thought he could have used it better." - Martin Luther

Following this reasoning, the word “only” is appropriate in the German, but would not be appropriate in English translationst.

Since Protestant Bibles do not use the word “alone” in the English translations of Protestant Bibles, it is obvious Luther didn’t start a new doctrine. If he had that word would be found in Protestant Bibles which it is not.
Sorry but you are wrong. I speak German. Its not a Catholic myth. Luther taught Bible Alone AND Faith Alone.
 
Sorry but you are wrong. I speak German. Its not a Catholic myth. Luther taught Bible Alone AND Faith Alone.
Do you speak 16th century German…because I don’t speak 16th century English. Languages can change considerably over time.

This quote is what Luther stated as his reason for using the word “only” (not alone as Catholics claim)

If he was misrepresenting the language, why didn’t the Catholic church point that out? Instead they refer to his sarcasm in partial quotes that give the appearance of trying to mislead. 🤷

How many Protestant Bibles do you know of that use the word “alone” in Romans 1:17? I know of zero!
 
Do you speak 16th century German.…because I don’t speak 16th century English. Languages can changed considerable over time.

This quote is what Luther stated as his reason for using the word “only” (not alone as Catholics claim)

If he was misrepresenting the language, why didn’t the Catholic church point that out? Instead they refer to his sarcasm in partial quotes that give the appearance of trying to mislead. 🤷
That’s a joke, is it? The word “allein” has not changed in meaning or how it can be used grammatically.

You don’t speak 16th century English. I guess you don’t read the King James Bible then.

By the way you have not yet responded to the Faith Alone issue.

Also in your profile it says Christian. Which denomination baptised you and if you do not belong to a church or denomination now what type of Christian are you?
 
That’s a joke, is it? The word “allein” has not changed in meaning or how it can be used grammatically
I didn’t say the meaning of the word changed. I said they way people speak has changed, the grammar has changed.

Here is an example from Shakespeare:

"Virginity being blown down, man will quicklier be blown up: "

Is that proper English?
 
Of the Catholic Church misinterpreting what Martin Luther has said/done?

OK, off the top of my head, the RC claims ML invented a new doctrine of Faith Alone (Sola Fida) by adding the word “alone” to Romans 1:17.

This is a false assertion. If it were true, then English translations of Protestant Bibles should include the word “alone” - BUT they don’t!

This false doctrine is not part of the Protestant faith.
Ah, but it was in there. And then scholarly honesty prompted the Protestants to take it out. Remember, they’ve had 400 years to figure out that “Alone” did NOT belong in there. It’s odd that the people that claim Catholics try to add or take away from the Bible are actually the ones who have erred the greatest. This is one example. Another would be removing 7 books from the Old Testament. But perhaps another thread.

Please tell me you have more…
 
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