Sola Scriptura

[guanophore]

PS,   How do I know these fathers were correct in their teachings?  I really don't, and that is a big problem for me.

I agree! I think it is a big problem for all those who are separated from the Apostolic Tradition. What you are left with to explain, however, is how is it that men ordained by the Apostles believed, acted, and wrote so differently about the Scripture than you. What accounts for the changes?

I would rather go the Bible itself.  Your church became very legalistic starting under Constatine.  It remains the same today.

I agree that it is right to go to the Bible itself, however, you don’t even have a complete bible, since it was shortened by those who left the Apostolic Teaching, because they did not agree with some of the things that were written.

 I don't mind talking about cannon because I know God has protected His Word supernaturally.  We humans will always have different opinions because noone is perfect.              Peace,    Golfjack

Then let’s talk about the canon. How, exactly, did God supernaturally protect His word? How did we get the canon? Why is your OT different than the one used by the Apostles?

Just out of curiosity, wasn’t Jesus speaking to all the disciples when he said this? he elaborates in 14:23 that he’s not only speaking of sending a paraclete to church leaders, but to anyone who loves him (and those that love him are the ones who obey him).

This promise was made to the Church. The foundation of the Church is the Apostles and prophets. Yes, others can enter into this promise, but only to the extent they are in unity with the Apostles.

So why does only the Pope have infallibility(and yes, I understand what infallibilty means)?

Evidently you don’t.

I understand that the it is because he is a successor of Peter, but then again, so were bishops of Antioch right?

No. Infallibility is connected to the Apostolic succession, but it is because God knows we are fallen creatures, and capable of going astray. He gave this gift to preserve the Church from error so that His Word in her could remain pure.

Yes, there is a succession of bishops from Peter in Antioch.

and if the Holy Spirit were guiding all believers/lovers of Jesus, than anyone of those, regardless of their heirarchy in the church, could equally interpret scripture right? They would equally be led by the Holy Spirit.

Exactly! And that is how we know this interpretation is not the right one. We can see all the error that has resulted from espousing this error.

I knew the road was narrow that led to heaven, but based on this, only a few are getting in!

This is certainly true!

 

[guanophore]

PS,  Just because you are old doesn't mean you are right.

This is true, and it is also the reasont that Jesus had to give the gift of infallibility to the Church. Even the elders can make errors, but when God protects HIs Word, even the foibles of the old cannot interfere. To the extent that we are in unity with that gift of infallibility, we can enjoy the benefits of it.

By the way, I did have hands laid on me to be an Evangelist.  But I won't demand you call me Rev. Jack.

Yes, but whose hands? By what authority? Your demands would not change the fact that what you have received is outside of the Apostolic succession.

Yes, there many different denominations with different opinions on Bible interpretation on certain scriptures, but Most Evangelicals will agree on how one gets saved and that is the most important thing.  For example, I disagree with the Baptists about speaking in tongues and the laying on of hands   for physical healing, but I would say they are excellent soul winners. Many times it comes down to Church governance, but I belong to a non-denominational Church, which is Pentacostal and has a Word of faith Pastor.  I do not like liberal churches, which to me are luke-warm on most think.  It all comes down to a choice. I am most comfortable in my church because it is a Word and Holy Spirit Church. :thumbsup:

If being most comfortable is what is important to you, then I guess you are in the right place. Why did you come to CAF?

PS, It is your understanding of the meaning of Scripture that is flawed. To say that Jesus established a church where people are blinded by the interptretions of the Pope and Mag. to me is ridiculous. God did not make us robots nto follow a church that is flawed.

       Peace,.   Golfjack

I am very curious to know what people are “blinded” and how that happens, but it is off topic in this thread, so I will not encourage you to answer it here. I am wondering, htough, if you think the Catholic Church is “flawed”, why you are on a website that is designed to answer questions about the Catholic faith?

 

[golfjack]

Since you Catholics to be inspired and led by the Holy Spirit, how does the Holy Spirit witness to you? After you give me your answers, then I will give you the Biblical answer based on the Word of God. Fair enough?
Peace, Golfjack

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Since you Catholics to be inspired and led by the Holy Spirit, how does the Holy Spirit witness to you? After you give me your answers, then I will give you the Biblical answer based on the Word of God. Fair enough?

    Peace,   Golfjack

So if we agree to change the topic of the thread, you’ll address the topic of the thread. I’m sorry, I can’t see the fairness of your proposal.

 

[guanophore]

Since you Catholics to be inspired and led by the Holy Spirit, how does the Holy Spirit witness to you? After you give me your answers, then I will give you the Biblical answer based on the Word of God. Fair enough?

    Peace,   Golfjack

That question is off topic in this thread, dolfjack. Besides, after you have insulted our faith, I am not so inclined to throw you any more pearls.

No, this is not the right thread for you to be giving us “biblical answers” to what it means to be inspired by the HS. This thread is for the discussion of Sola Scriptura. If you want to remain here (though right now I am having trouble understanding why) then you will have to follow the forum rules.

 

[Randy_Carson]

The thing that’s holding me back from converting to Catholicism is that maybe “The Church” is a much broader definition thatn Catholics claim it to be. As a Prot. I always thought of the Church as being all who love Christ, which really, can incorporate even more than most Protestants would admit (LDS/other cults also “love Christ.”).

The Catholic definition of the Church is very similar to yours - perhaps even broader. This is why we are hammered in this forum constantly by evangelicals who object to our idea that Muslims and Hindus, etc. may be saved. What we would hold to, however, is that the Church - the complete Church - is Catholic because there is only one body of Christ, and the name of that Body of Believers is the Catholic Church.

I will add that there seems to be just as much division among RCs as Prots, they just don’t claim another name for themselves. I know few RCs that really believe everything the Magisterium teaches.

But few who are knowledgeable would deny that the Magisterium exists and teaches authoritatively.

That is a HUGE difference in practical terms!

 

[CWBetts]

Since you Catholics to be inspired and led by the Holy Spirit, how does the Holy Spirit witness to you? After you give me your answers, then I will give you the Biblical answer based on the Word of God. Fair enough?

    Peace,   Golfjack

What makes you an authority on how the Scriptures are to be inerpereted? You are operating under the assumption that the Catholic Church cannot possibly be right. Kind of arrogant to be taking this stance on a Catholic forum, don’t you think?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

PS, I don’t mind talking about cannon because I know God has protected His Word supernaturally.

Peace, Golfjack:thumbsup:

Hello golfjack,

I have started a discussion thread referencing the Canon of the Bible. I provided a link so you don’t have to search for it. I’m looking forward to your view of how the canon of the Bible was defined, as well as the timelines.