sola scriptura

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JonNC said:
Therefore, if I am wrong, or you are, or our friend Mickey is, or our new friend Gaelic Bard is, I remember that Christ dies for sinners, chief among them though I may be, and even if my greatest sin is a stubborn pride, “the Lord hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all”.
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**“You ask, will the heterodox be saved… Why do you worry about them? They have a Saviour Who desires the salvation of every human being. He will take care of them. You and I should not be burdened with such a concern. Study yourself and your own sins… I will tell you one thing, however: should you, being Orthodox and possessing the Truth in its fullness, betray Orthodoxy, and enter a different faith, you will lose your soul forever.” **
St Theophan the Recluse
 
rfournier103 said:
**

What baffles me is that those who fanatically cling to the absolute litteral definition of Sola Scriptura have no craving for more than what’s just in the Bible. Can ANY man’s devotion to the All Powerful Master of Time and Space that created him from nothing truly contain his homage to such a short BOOK???
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Agreed. Perhaps some of the Sola Scriptura folks can explain why there’s so little craving for anything other than what’s in the Bible. A book, even though it contains the inspired word of God, is not God. The Creator of the universe (and all of us) is so much more than what can be written in words, though those words are very important.
 
Originally Posted by rfournier103
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What baffles me is that those who fanatically cling to the **absolute litteral definition of Sola Scriptura **have no craving for more than what’s just in the Bible. Can ANY man’s devotion to the All Powerful Master of Time and Space that created him from nothing truly contain his homage to such a short BOOK???
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I would contend that the Lutheran view is the absolute literal definition. 😃
Well, at least the default definition.
Denise1957 said:
Agreed. Perhaps some of the Sola Scriptura folks can explain why there’s so little craving for anything other than what’s in the Bible. A book, even though it contains the inspired word of God, is not God. The Creator of the universe (and all of us) is so much more than what can be written in words, though those words are very important.
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At the risk of speaking for others, something I try not to do, I would say that even those who hold a solo scriptura position would say that the reason they do so because they know He, creator, redeemer, comforter is so much more than the book.
OTOH, when I read the creeds, or what the saints of history have said, I can’t imagine why these would not be held in great value.

Jon
 
Denise1957 said:
Agreed. Perhaps some of the Sola Scriptura folks can explain why there’s so little craving for anything other than what’s in the Bible. A book, even though it contains the inspired word of God, is not God. The Creator of the universe (and all of us) is so much more than what can be written in words, though those words are very important.
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No…it’s not God, Denise. That’s certainly true. However, while we can learn about God from other things, like the universe, the natural world, our fellow man, etc., it is only through divine revelation that we can learn about Christ and Him crucified for sinners. You rightly say that God cannot be summed up in words; but it is only in revelation that we can learn about the Word made flesh for us. That is why we place such value in a book. Not because it is a book, but because it is the way in which the Triune God says “All that has been made is what you can see that I am…but this will tell you Who I really am.”
 
Mickey said:
**“You ask, will the heterodox be saved… Why do you worry about them? They have a Saviour Who desires the salvation of every human being. He will take care of them. You and I should not be burdened with such a concern. Study yourself and your own sins… I will tell you one thing, however: should you, being Orthodox and possessing the Truth in its fullness, betray Orthodoxy, and enter a different faith, you will lose your soul forever.” **
St Theophan the Recluse
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Thank you Mickey, and all of you.

Jon
 
Gaelic_Bard said:
No…it’s not God, Denise. That’s certainly true. However, while we can learn about God from other things, like the universe, the natural world, our fellow man, etc., it is only through divine revelation that we can learn about Christ and Him crucified for sinners. You rightly say that God cannot be summed up in words; but it is only in revelation that we can learn about the Word made flesh for us. That is why we place such value in a book. Not because it is a book, but because it is the way in which the Triune God says “All that has been made is what you can see that I am…but this will tell you Who I really am.”
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Is there really no other way to learn about God (or Jesus, rather) than through scripture, in your view?
 
Gaelic_Bard said:
Could you clarify?
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Through prayer we help to develop our personal relationship with God. When we are close to Him, we grow in a deeper understanding of Him, and His great love for us, and what that love means, and what His will is for us. For Catholics, this is combined with graces received in the sacraments. Without prayer, we cannot truly know God, or ourselves, and it also helps us to grow in holiness and virtue.
 
Gaelic_Bard said:
What does any other source tell me about Father, Son and Holy Spirit that Scripture does not?
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Just to add, Martin Luther’s Small Catechism still, even after 43 years since my confirmation, tells me things that helps me understand His word better.

Jon
 
JonNC said:
As a former high school referree, I always marveled at the bravery of coaches, who put their livelihood in the hands and performances of high school kids. :eek: 😃

Jon
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Heh. It was my mistake. I meant to type DH, not DD. I thought my honey was going to do the cleaning while I was at work and running the kids around today!
 
Denise1957 said:
Through prayer we help to develop our personal relationship with God. When we are close to Him, we grow in a deeper understanding of Him, and His great love for us, and what that love means, and what His will is for us. For Catholics, this is combined with graces received in the sacraments. Without prayer, we cannot truly know God, or ourselves, and it also helps us to grow in holiness and virtue.
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Jon and Denise, yes those are both positive things. They are both, however…based on Scripture. Prayer is a deepening of our dependence on God, an example of our faith in Him; but prayer is an act of worship. It is how we express ourselves to Him. It is a man-to-God action. Scripture is a God-to-man action, a means of grace. Without revelation, we would not even know how to pray. We have 150 concrete examples in Scripture. The greatest prayer ever said is uttered by our Master. Prayer is wholly dependent on God revealing to us that He wants us to pray to Him.

As for the catechism…same. There, Luther expounds on Scripture. Everything that a Christian needs to know is based on His word to us.
 
Gaelic_Bard said:
Jon and Denise, yes those are both positive things. They are both, however…based on Scripture. Prayer is a deepening of our dependence on God, an example of our faith in Him; but prayer is an act of worship. It is how we express ourselves to Him. It is a man-to-God action. Scripture is a God-to-man action, a means of grace. Without revelation, we would not even know how to pray. We have 150 concrete examples in Scripture. The greatest prayer ever said is uttered by our Master. Prayer is wholly dependent on God revealing to us that He wants us to pray to Him.

As for the catechism…same. There, Luther expounds on Scripture. Everything that a Christian needs to know is based on His word to us.
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So you don’t believe prayer to be a two-way street? Wow. How do you know, then what God’s will is for you? Sure, scripture tells us to pray. In Thessalonians, it says to pray without ceasing. When Jesus prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane, was it a one-way prayer?

You mention that without revelation, we would not know how to pray. But everyone in the Bible were real. They were more than words in a book. It was Jesus Christ who showed how to pray. You can call Him Revelation if you like, but he was more than that. He was, and is, real.
 
Denise1957 said:
So you don’t believe prayer to be a two-way street? Wow. How do you know, then what God’s will is for you? Sure, scripture tells us to pray. In Thessalonians, it says to pray without ceasing. When Jesus prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane, was it a one-way prayer?
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A two way street? I guess you’d have to define what you mean by that. I believe God responds to prayer. I believe He answers prayer. I believe He strengthens us through prayer. I believe those things because His word tells me He does. In that sense, it is a two way street. Those benefits of prayer are applicable to Jesus’ prayer in Gethsemane.

As for knowing God’s will, again, I can’t know it apart from him telling me His will in Scripture. I could try and guess on my own. But how would I know that I was right?
 
Gaelic_Bard said:
A two way street? I guess you’d have to define what you mean by that. I believe God responds to prayer. I believe He answers prayer. I believe He strengthens us through prayer. I believe those things because His word tells me He does. In that sense, it is a two way street. Those benefits of prayer are applicable to Jesus’ prayer in Gethsemane.

As for knowing God’s will, again, I can’t know it apart from him telling me His will in Scripture. I could try and guess on my own. But how would I know that I was right?
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You would know that you were right in knowing His will through practice. Trial and error. After awhile, you get better at knowing what to pay attention to.
 
Denise1957 said:
You would know that you were right in knowing His will through practice. Trial and error. After awhile, you get better at knowing what to pay attention to.
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Why would I want to learn from practice when I can see for myself in His word what His will is? Why get it wrong so many times and then hopefully get it right at some point?
 
Gaelic_Bard said:
Why would I want to learn from practice when I can see for myself in His word what His will is? Why get it wrong so many times and then hopefully get it right at some point?
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It’s okay to be wrong sometimes. Keeps us humble, and dependent on Him to try to set us straight. 🙂

I gotta run out the door to work now. I’ll check back later.
 
Denise1957 said:
It’s okay to be wrong sometimes. Keeps us humble, and dependent on Him to try to set us straight. 🙂

I gotta run out the door to work now. I’ll check back later.
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Yes, we’re wrong daily. That’s our sinful failure to implement His will, not that He hasn’t told it to us!

Christ’s peace!
 
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