Sola scripture from satan

  • Thread starter Thread starter excaliber
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
the Church and the various Christian communities no longer have a unified voice, just a loud, incoherent babble of voices.

exactly.
The devil can’t stop christianity but he can slow it down by breaking it up into 30,000 pieces.
 
the Church and the various Christian communities no longer have a unified voice, just a loud, incoherent babble of voices.

exactly.
The devil can’t stop christianity but he can slow it down by breaking it up into 30,000 pieces.
I think you give the devil too much credit. He did not create free will. God did.
Man is not a robot, he can choose.
Unless, you think man is helpless to choose. :eek:
 
It’s easy to prove it false; it’s self-reputiating, especially since the Bible contains no list of books of which it is made.
Actually proving anything false is not easy.

First of all you need a working definition of Sola Scriptura since the phrase in itself is a title (I prefer the title Prima Scriptura myself but that is a separate issue). After you find a working definition you must figure out before hand what would constitute proof of it being false. I would say two things could prove it false.
(a) A solid Scriptural case such that no other explanations are possible except your working definition being false.
(b) A real life example that directly contradicts it.

Given a valid definition of the term, there aren’t any real life examples that contradict it. Sorry, your example only contradicts a definition of the term that is definitely made with straw.

I haven’t seen yet a Scriptural case that proves it false either. Maybe somebody can construct one, but I’ve been around here quite a bit and have not read one. The I can say is that I have also not seen a Scriptural argument that proves it true.
Well, I believe it may originally have been Satan’s idea, but I usually call it a man-made doctrine, because that’s not nearly as incindiary.
Well that is all well and good, but your belief that it is satan’s idea hardly constitutes proof. Are there any Catholic documents where even your denomination says it is satan’s idea? If not, then you are even going beyond what your denomination teaches.
Look around; 30,000 “denominations” and counting. One division after another (Which is condemned by Christ and St.Paul). Mass confusion about issues such as abortion, contraception, gay-marriage, etc., etc, all because the Church and the various Christian communities no longer have a unified voice, just a loud, incoherent babble of voices.
Separate topic, but I think I have even read Catholic apologists say that 30,000 is a bogus number. And your denomination hardly speaks with one unified voice either.
 
Sola Scriptura is an erroneous doctrine and is contrary to the teachings of the Church founded by Christ.
So then rather than “sola Scriptura” you adhere to “sola ecclesia.”
Because of that, it is safe to posit that this doctrine is inspired by Satan.
So you’re saying anything contrary to or other than the teachings of your church is Satanic.
Further, those who adhere to this teaching, it is safe to say, are deceived by Satan.
Because they’re not “sola ecclesia?”

But remember, “excaliber’s,” original rationale was that because Satan used Scripture to temp Jesus, “sola Scriptura” was invented by Satan. Is that sound reasoning to you?
 
First of all I did not mean to imply that God was confused by the devil
twisting scripture. But we can get confused.

Ok I think we get eachother you don’t need to post anymore old watchtowers. I agree with you that you can find old watchtowers talking about angelic messangers.

We both must agree that knowone
Has ever in this organizations history has ever spokn to ANYONE from GOD.

Here is where we could have to agree to disagree…Did a group like Jw’s get there crazy doctrine from an angel??? Or did it come from man using a bible with out the guidance of the church.

I think the Jw mess started from man trying to use the bible and getting everything wrong. are we in agreement so far or do you give any validity to what these old crazy watchtowrs say.
 
…First of all you need a working definition of Sola Scriptura since the phrase in itself is a title (I prefer the title Prima Scriptura myself but that is a separate issue). After you find a working definition you must figure out before hand what would constitute proof of it being false. I would say two things could prove it false.
(a) A solid Scriptural case such that no other explanations are possible except your working definition being false.
(b) A real life example that directly contradicts it…
Prima Scriptura is a whole 'nother issue, as far as I know. Right now I’m dealing with Sola Scriptura alone. And my “working definition” I’d rather not duspute against; I want to hear what the basic Protestant means when he/she speaks of Sola Scriptura.
…Given a valid definition of the term, there aren’t any real life examples that contradict it. Sorry, your example only contradicts a definition of the term that is definitely made with straw…
Like I said above, I prefer not to dispute my own definitions of what I think Sola Scriptura is. But I have to, since no one is telling me how I’m burning a straw man. Tell me, please.
…I haven’t seen yet a Scriptural case that proves it false either…
By the definition of Sola Scriptura (As I see it) it has to be in Scripture for it to be proven true, right? The burden of proof is on the Protestants, since Catholics held their view first.
…Well that is all well and good, but your belief that it is satan’s idea hardly constitutes proof. Are there any Catholic documents where even your denomination says it is satan’s idea? If not, then you are even going beyond what your denomination teaches.
  1. I was citing a personal opinion, not proof. 2. It is permissible in my “denomination” (Which is actually not a denomination at all, but the Mother Church) to hold that view, since it is not condemned in the Catechism or any papal writings (ex cathedra) that I know of.
…Separate topic, but I think I have even read Catholic apologists say that 30,000 is a bogus number. And your denomination hardly speaks with one unified voice either.
Regardless,the actual number is beside the point. And if you count all the “non-denominational” communities (Which I count as a denomination in and of themselves) I think you could easily reach that number. But the point is this: They’re fragmenting, always have, and always will, generating thousands of differing versions of what they consider Christianity.
 
excaliber;3005355:
I think there are far more current ones but I dont have time to read all of my collection.

What do you think of the more current November 1st article on page 24 second column? I will print it so everyone can see it in a following post.

They claim they get not only angelic direction, but also supernatural direction, and I can find them even saying “spirit” direction often. What spirit? I dont want to know. This stuff is even a bit much for a man to come up with alone. It smacks of the occult.

QUOTE]

The jury is out. I am not sure if they are inspired by demons.🤷

Its very possible.

Nov 1 2007 Watchtower page 24 second column paragraph number 11
from the section:The Word of Jehovah Never Fails

Deliverance in Modern Times
11 What of our time? On Friday morning, October 2, 1914, Charles Taze Russell, who took the lead at that time amoung the Bible Students, strode into the dining room at Bethel in Brooklyn, New York. “Good morning, all,” he said cheerily. Then, before taking his seat, he joyfully announced: The Gentile times have ended; their kings have had their day." Once again, the time had come for Jehovah, The Sovereign of the universe, to act in behalf of his people. And act he did!
12 Just five years later, Jehovah delivered his people from “Babylon the Great”, the mighty world empire of false religion… (continues with more silly stuff)
Underlining mine
SO, they are saying Jehovah gave Russell a message.
How else did he know?🤷

I agree. Did you know that C. T. Russell actually believed that the Great Pyramid in Egypt was actually a “Bible in stone” and he said it told people when the "End times would come by mesuring the inner chambers?
 
Hellisreal;3005628:
I agree. Did you know that C. T. Russell actually believed that the Great Pyramid in Egypt was actually a “Bible in stone” and he said it told people when the "End times would come by mesuring the inner chambers?
The man was very interesting to say the least. I think he was involved in the occult. There is no other reasonable solution to the way they calculated all their false prophecy. How scary.:eek:
 
when we compare some protestant communities (all of them regard Sola Scriptura as a dogma) it will be seen that they have one Scripture but different teaching
eg.
1.
one celebrate sunday
others sabat (saturday)
2.
one belive that human has free will
others dont
3.
glosolaria - gift of language is still actuall
nope - it;s passed away
4.
baptism in the name of Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit
bapitism in the name of Jesus

etc… etc
as we see, Scripture is a gift for Church and only Church can explain it. When we acknoladge that Sola Scriptura is true then everyone can fill as a Pope 🙂 but we know, Church has one Revelation - in Jesus Christ -** Solum Verbum** - this Verbum is Jesus (John 1:1), and this Revelation is present in Scripture and Tradition.

👍
 
Hello and welcome to CAF XPICTIONAC-

I clicked on your sig to see your blog and I got a blue screen and had to re-boot up. 😦
 
haha why you ask? 🙂 no, I’m 23

blog is in polish so you rather won’t understand what I’ve written there 😉
 
I think the Jw mess started from man trying to use the bible and getting everything wrong.
It began with unbelief and remains there today. Can a bad tree produce good fruit (Matt. 7:18)? Can unbelief produce belief?
 
Prima Scriptura is a whole 'nother issue, as far as I know. Right now I’m dealing with Sola Scriptura alone. And my “working definition” I’d rather not duspute against; I want to hear what the basic Protestant means when he/she speaks of Sola Scriptura.
Well you are the one here that is claiming it is satanic. And since you are the one that is making the claim, it is up to you to substantiate it.

Since Sola Scriptura is nothing more than a title, it is up to you to state exactly what it is that is satan’s greatest tool.
Like I said above, I prefer not to dispute my own definitions of what I think Sola Scriptura is. But I have to, since no one is telling me how I’m burning a straw man. Tell me, please.
Sure.

You stated that Sola Scriptura is false because the Bible does not tell you what books of the Bible are canonical. Since every definition of Sola Scriptura I have heard of acknowledges this (at the very mininum the one my church and myself work with), this is a strawman.
By the definition of Sola Scriptura (As I see it) it has to be in Scripture for it to be proven true, right? The burden of proof is on the Protestants, since Catholics held their view first.
Actually the burden of proof is on the one making the assertion. So if you are asserting that Sola Scriptura is satan’s greatest tool, then it is up to you to define it and prove it. If you assert that Sola Scriptura is definitely false it is up to you to define it and then prove it. If I assert that Sola Scriptura is definitely true it is up to me to define it and prove it.

There is one more logical possibility. Sola Scriptura might be neither definitely true or definitely false (at least as far as our ability to comprehend and prove goes). Then nobody is left to prove anything and we are left with a bunch of opinions with a certain amount of supporting evidence. In that case I think it best if we let each other live in peace and cut the inflammatory rhetoric please.
  1. I was citing a personal opinion, not proof. 2. It is permissible in my “denomination” (Which is actually not a denomination at all, but the Mother Church) to hold that view, since it is not condemned in the Catechism or any papal writings (ex cathedra) that I know of.
And that is fine if it is understood that it is your opinion. But others come here with the opinion that the pope is the antiChrist and Catholicism is the whore of Babylon. They usually get booted by the moderators.
Regardless,the actual number is beside the point. And if you count all the “non-denominational” communities (Which I count as a denomination in and of themselves) I think you could easily reach that number. But the point is this: They’re fragmenting, always have, and always will, generating thousands of differing versions of what they consider Christianity.
Well first of all a non-denomination by definition is not a denomination.

Second of all, anybody can make up numbers. However, your opinion carries weight only if the numbers you use are well supported by facts.
 
You stated that Sola Scriptura is false because the Bible does not tell you what books of the Bible are canonical. Since every definition of Sola Scriptura I have heard of acknowledges this (at the very mininum the one my church and myself work with), this is a strawman.

Actually the burden of proof is on the one making the assertion. So if you are asserting that Sola Scriptura is satan’s greatest tool, then it is up to you to define it and prove it. If you assert that Sola Scriptura is definitely false it is up to you to define it and then prove it. If I assert that Sola Scriptura is definitely true it is up to me to define it and prove it.

There is one more logical possibility. Sola Scriptura might be neither definitely true or definitely false (at least as far as our ability to comprehend and prove goes). Then nobody is left to prove anything and we are left with a bunch of opinions with a certain amount of supporting evidence. In that case I think it best if we let each other live in peace and cut the inflammatory rhetoric please.
Let the spiral continue, and it will until judgement day. Bottom line anyone who takes the Bible wholely and completely ( Primacy of Peter, Baptism, Confession, Eucharist, being saved by grace through love, faith and works, Christ founding one Church) its all there and the only place they all exist is in the ONE HOLY, CATHOLIC and APOSTOLIC CHURCH, it contains the fullness of faith which GOD desires for each and everyone of us.

Until we get to Heaven, we’re all unfinished Christians.

May God bless and protect us
,
JLC
 
Well you are the one here that is claiming it is satanic. And since you are the one that is making the claim, it is up to you to substantiate it.
My personal opinion is that the revisionists may have been influenced by not-so-good forces when they came up with it. But my opinions are besides the point. I’m not dealing with that riht now, it’s just what I think. At the very least it’s man-made.
You stated that Sola Scriptura is false because the Bible does not tell you what books of the Bible are canonical. Since every definition of Sola Scriptura I have heard of acknowledges this (at the very mininum the one my church and myself work with), this is a strawman.
Definition, according to Wikipedia:
“Sola Scriptura (Latin ablative, “by scripture alone”) is the assertion that the Bible as God’s written word is self-authenticating, clear (perspicuous) to the rational reader, its own interpreter (“Scripture interprets Scripture”), and sufficient of itself to be the final authority of Christian doctrine.”

I see no exception to the Canon by this definition, nor have I ever seen that definition anywhere except by you, Mr.Mozart.

Wikipedia continues: “Sola Scriptura may be contrasted with Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox teaching, in which doctrine is authentically taught by the legitimate teaching authority of the Church which draws on the Deposit of Faith which consists of Sacred Tradition, of which Sacred Scripture is a subset.”

A better question for Sola Scripturists would be: What invalidates oral tradition?
Actually the burden of proof is on the one making the assertion. So if you are asserting that Sola Scriptura is satan’s greatest tool, then it is up to you to define it and prove it. If you assert that Sola Scriptura is definitely false it is up to you to define it and then prove it. If I assert that Sola Scriptura is definitely true it is up to me to define it and prove it.
Yep. I was saying as far as the revisionists (i.e., the "reformers) were concerned, they had the burden of proof when they broke away from the Catholic Church.
There is one more logical possibility. Sola Scriptura might be neither definitely true or definitely false (at least as far as our ability to comprehend and prove goes). Then nobody is left to prove anything and we are left with a bunch of opinions with a certain amount of supporting evidence. In that case I think it best if we let each other live in peace and cut the inflammatory rhetoric please.
This, my friends, is an example of fleeing the arguement, by throwing your hands up in the air and saying, "well, it can’t be difinitively proved either way, so we might as well live in peace and cut the “inflammatory rhetoric.” A-ha! But then he goes on to use inflammatory rhetoric, saying “others” say it, when he himself probably agrees with them and wants to sling mud:
And that is fine if it is understood that it is your opinion. But others come here with the opinion that the pope is the antiChrist and Catholicism is the whore of Babylon. They usually get booted by the moderators.
Then he goes on with the “Oh, poor, persecuted me! Woe is me! The moderators would kick me out but they won’t kick out these vile Catholic swine! Woe is me!” Lame. Really lame.
Well first of all a non-denomination by definition is not a denomination.
I count it as a one-“church” denomination, because the only difference is that others have more communities in them.
Second of all, anybody can make up numbers. However, your opinion carries weight only if the numbers you use are well supported by facts.
My opinion doesn’t have to carry weight because it’s my personal opinion. According to the World Christian database, there are 9,000+ denominations, not including independent communities, which, as I have stated, I include. After all, they’re all Protestants.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top