Sola scripture from satan

[w_stewart]

And the Bible does not mention any other sources that are incapable of being wrong. Until that is proved, I’ll stick with the Bible thank you.

Otherwise I might as well become a Mormon.

(Yes I know there are other differences between you all and the Mormon’s. The point being that you both claim additional sources that are incapable of error)

The authority of the Church is infallible. This is well-supported by the Bible.

 

[w_stewart]

“Pillar and foundation” are support systems. The church (the Biblical definition) here is described as something that “supports” (upholds) the truth (of Christ) - it’s not stating that the church IS the truth (or another source of it).

Jesus said, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life…”

She is the foundation, not just a support system. Jesus is the source of truth but the Church is also the source of truth as she is the body of Christ who is her Head.

 

[SyCarl]

Since we’re on the subject; I know this is going to be a sore spot for some of you, but St.Cyprian says that you can’t really believe your in “The Church” if your not under submission to the Successor of Peter.

Cyprian also says that people should separate themselves from a sinful prelate since they can select their own.

On which account a people obedient to the Lord’s precepts, and fearing God, ought to separate themselves from a sinful prelate, and not to associate themselves with the sacrifices of a sacrilegious priest, especially since they themselves have the power either of choosing worthy priests, or of rejecting unworthy ones.-Cyprian (Epistle 67, Paragraph 3)
newadvent.org/fathers/050667.htm

 

[mozart-250]

Again, this is argumentum ad ignorantiam. Just because you have not seen the grave of Peter, you would conclude that he did not die. This is wrong.

No. It is just simply refusing to take the say so of you and your denomination.

Wrong again. A heretical doctrine remains heretical whether it is proven or otherwise.

To show that sola scriptura is wrong:

1. The apostles did not teach this.
2. This is not supported by the Bible itslef.
3. The apostolic Tradition does not teach that.
4. The Church founded by Christ condemned it heretical.

Sola Scriptura is just a title. I bet you don’t even know what it is that I exactly believe on the subject.

Show me what is heretical about refusing to take the say so of any person or any denomination until God shows me that it is true.

The Catholic Church declared the authoritativeness and inerrancy of the Bible. It is amazing that you accept the declaration but reject the authority of the institution declaring it.

All this because God has not shown me that the claims you make are true.

All I can say is that I must be the most unspiritual person on the planet because I am not humbly acquiescing to pronouncements that the Catholic Church is incapable of being incorrect with no substantiation other than Scripture that does not even refer to being incapable of being incorrect.

I feel that I have not even been understood in this thread. But that is probably my fault for being a poor communicator. But anyway, I honestly do not know what more I can even say to even make myself be understood.

 

[Metaron]

Actually, Mozart, I think your usually a pretty good communicator. But I think I should make it clear, to everyone, that your view is more Prima Scriptura. I hate titles too, but use them because they say alot in a few words.

 

[justinthemartyr]

Sola scriptura is from satan.

The direct fruits of sola scriptura, being invented in the 16th century, is division and confusion and personal and private interpretation making every man that believes it his own private pope and prophet.

The Church was virtually one in the first 1500 years and in the past 500 years of sola scriptura there are well over 30,000 divisions in the Body of Christ caused directly by that false doctrine that is not supported by scripture or history until Martin Luther.

God is the God of order and not of confusion and of unity and not of division within His Body. I pray that they be one as the Father and I are one. Avoid dissenters, let there be no divisions among you.
-Jesus

 

[mozart-250]

Actually, Mozart, I think your usually a pretty good communicator. But I think I should make it clear, to everyone, that your view is more Prima Scriptura. I hate titles too, but use them because they say alot in a few words.

Well thanks. From what I have read I think I am more Prima Scriptura myself. But if someone wants to say I am sola scriptura I won’t argue with it. It’s just a title anyway.

My whole intent in entangling myself in this thread was not to argue sola scriptura anyway. It was to challenge the notion this was somehow satan’s greatest lie. Sometimes I think if satan’s involved in anything, its getting people to waste their time arguing Christianity over the internet.

 

[Metaron]

Well thanks. From what I have read I think I am more Prima Scriptura myself. But if someone wants to say I am sola scriptura I won’t argue with it. It’s just a title anyway.

My whole intent in entangling myself in this thread was not to argue sola scriptura anyway. It was to challenge the notion this was somehow satan’s greatest lie. Sometimes I think if satan’s involved in anything, its getting people to waste their time arguing Christianity over the internet.

If everyone was Catholic, they’re would be a lot less arguing.

Yeah. I’m happy you’re a Christian, at least. We can agree on that. I’ve come to think that Sola Scriptura is a man-made doctrine, not necessarily a satanic doctrine. EIther way, it’s still not a God doctrine.

 

[anthony022071]

Augustine was highly influenced by Greek thought which was influence by his time by gnosticism a heresy. Augustine’s “allegorization” of much of Scripture does it great disservice.

Christian theologians as early as St. Justin made use of Greek philosophy. The great Ante-Nicene theologians employed it in explaining the mysteries of the faith.
Augustine was no more fanciful in his writings than some of the other early theologians are in theirs. There is no Gnosticism in his theology.

Clement of Alexandria:

“Before the coming of the Lord, philosophy was necessary for justification to the Greeks; now it is useful for piety . . . for it brought the Greeks to Christ as the law did the Hebrews” (Miscellanies 1:5 [A.D. 208]). theologians.

 

[chet]

Cyprian also says that people should separate themselves from a sinful prelate since they can select their own.

And your point is?

 

[chet]

I guess I still have a hard time making the connection between binding and loosing with speaking without error on faith and morals.

That having been said, “bind and loose” does seem to be a rather ambiguous phrase. But I would think the ability to do the miraculous almost at will is a part of binding and loosing.

At any rate, the “you” in verses 17-19 seems to be clearly Peter (with apologies to Benny Hinn). Therefore I have difficulty extending this “you” to any successors of Peter.

mozart I think Peter and his successors really are the key for you! Speaking of Peter and keys,

He said to them, "But who do you say that I am? "Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it. “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.” Matthew 16:15-19.

Mozart I ask one more thing of you. Please ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you if what I have shared with you is the truth; and prayerfully reread posts #254,256. Peace.

 

[chet]

Mozart, Last thought; Remember that the Apostles view their positions in the Church as an “Office” as demonstrated in the Acts of the Apostles when they replace Judas. Since Christ placed a special primacy on Peter; It would be reasonable to expect that the “Office of Peter” would come with a special Authority, and distinct gifts from the Holy Spirit. Peace.

 

[w_stewart]

No. It is just simply refusing to take the say so of you and your denomination.

And refusing to submit to the authority of the Church founded by Christ. The Church the Holy Spirit abides by forever. The Church which Paul called the pillar and foundation of the Church.

Sola Scriptura is just a title. I bet you don’t even know what it is that I exactly believe on the subject.

Is your belief on sola scriptura different from that of the originator, Martin Luther?

Show me what is heretical about refusing to take the say so of any person or any denomination until God shows me that it is true.

Sola Scriptura is not a teaching of the apostles nor of their successors. It is not taught by the Church founded by Christ but declared heretical by the same. It is not even scriptural. That makes your sola scriptura heretical no matter what your understanding is.

All this because God has not shown me that the claims you make are true.

There is the Church authorized to preach to all nations all the teachings of Christ. Whoever refuses to listen to the Church, refuses to listen to the Lord.

All I can say is that I must be the most unspiritual person on the planet because I am not humbly acquiescing to pronouncements that the Catholic Church is incapable of being incorrect with no substantiation other than Scripture that does not even refer to being incapable of being incorrect.

 

[mozart-250]

I think I will be taking a break from this thread and from arguing Christianity over the internet for a while. This has devolved into something that was not my original point and into “yes it is” / “no it is not” which is just not fruitful for anything,

 

[moondweller]

There is the Church authorized to preach to all nations all the teachings of Christ. Whoever refuses to listen to the Church, refuses to listen to the Lord.

Which boils down to sola ecclesia. Bottom line, we all choose our authority, don’t we?

 

[Metaron]

Which boils down to sola ecclesia.

Nope. Catholics don’t believe in Sola Scriptura or Sola Ecclesia. They believe in the whole of Sacred Tradition, Written and Oral together as a whole.

 

[SolaFide]

Nope. Catholics don’t believe in Sola Scriptura or Sola Ecclesia. They believe in the whole of Sacred Tradition, Written and Oral together as a whole.

But when push comes to shove, they “shove” the inspired word of God, the Bible, aside and will listen to the opinions of fallible men instead.

 

[Metaron]

But when push comes to shove, they “shove” the inspired word of God, the Bible, aside and will listen to the opinions of fallible men instead.

Don’t just make assertions; PROVE IT! And Sola Scriptura is unbiblical, so prove that too, please.

 

[homewardbound]

But when push comes to shove, they “shove” the inspired word of God, the Bible, aside and will listen to the opinions of fallible men instead.

I have yet to come across any Catholic teaching that contradicts Scripture.

There are not 100 people who hate Catholicism. But there are thousands who hate and disagree with what they THINK is Catholicism.

-Bishop Fulton Sheen

 

[b_justb]

But when push comes to shove, they “shove” the inspired word of God, the Bible, aside and will listen to the opinions of fallible men instead.

This is the never ending Sola Scriptura argument …

We take the bible as the final authority because it is the inspired Word of God!

Really? Says who? The bible? If the Bible says it’s the word of God and you believe it why not believe every other sacred writ that claims the same thing? If the bible is self authenticating, where is the holy list of holy books to be contained therein (and please refrain from pointing me to the table of contents, as funny as that is to do)? Why did it take millennia for it to be composed?

I love this. This is so classic I want to frame it:

But when push comes to shove, they [non-Sola Scripturists] “shove” the inspired word of God, the Bible, aside and will listen to the opinions of fallible men instead.

And the ones that adhere strictly to Sola Scriptura they don’t do that? That’s why there is 100% complete unity of theological thought in all Sola Scriptura ecclesial communities, right? So when push comes to shove the Sola Scriptura ecclesial community or individual does what? Start their own community based upon what they think the bible says. Well isn’t that exactly what the Sola Scripturist saying the Catholic Church does?

And round and round we go, to no ones edification and logic just flies out the window.