Solemnity & Feast

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MarkThompson said:
Thanks, yes, that’s true; it was a bit of an oversimplification, even though I meant in general. The point is, going back to the original question (“Solemnity & Feast: What’s the difference?”), the truth is that they are all “feasts” in a basic sense, and that the Church has chosen feasts of the greatest importance to be called “Solemnities,” feasts of middling importance to be called “Feasts,” feasts of minor importance to be called “Memorials.”

I guess I don’t know the answer (do you?) to whether one can officially say that the feast of, for instance, St. Firmina is a Memorial. The quotation you gave, indicating that it “may be celebrated in the same way as other memorials,” would seem to indicate so. Either way, it is a feast, even though it does not have the liturgical rank of Feast, which is the main point I wanted to communicate since it seemed to be at the root of the confusion here.
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Can’t say I know the specific answer to your question. Keep in mind that the translation of the GILH I quoted is in English. The Latin says: “In feriis, quae admittunt celebrationem memoriae ad libitum, iusta de causa celebrari potest, eodem ritu (cf. 234-239), Officium alicuius Sancti inscripti eo die in Martyrologio Romano aut in eius Appendice rite approbria.”

Anybody good at translation from the Latin, feel free to step in here!
 
OraLabora said:
Can’t say I know the specific answer to your question. Keep in mind that the translation of the GILH I quoted is in English. The Latin says: “In feriis, quae admittunt celebrationem memoriae ad libitum, iusta de causa celebrari potest, eodem ritu (cf. 234-239), Officium alicuius Sancti inscripti eo die in Martyrologio Romano aut in eius Appendice rite approbria.”

Anybody good at translation from the Latin, feel free to step in here!
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“On ferial days, which admit the celebration of a memorial at one’s discretion, for a just cause may be celebrated, with the same rite (cf. 234-239), the Office of any Saint inscribed for that day in the Roman Martyrology or in its Appendix with the approved rite.”
I’m not entirely sure what to do with “rite approbria,” which I think you may have mistyped (rite approbata?), but in any event I appreciate your posting this since the Latin does not imply, as the English seemed to, that every saint’s feast listed in the Martyrology can be objectively termed a Memorial outside the instance of its being kept in a particular circumstance.
 
OraLabora said:
All saints, those on the calendar or not, are listed in the martyrology and where the martyrology is proclaimed daily (e.g. in all monasteries), the saint at least gets a passing mention that time.
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Can I just check because I’m not sure is the Martyrology anticipated, i.e. the entry for one day is read out the day before, e.g. today is 24th November so today at Prime, Lauds, or whenever the entry in the Martyrology for 25th November would have been read.
 
Matthew_Holford said:
Can I just check because I’m not sure is the Martyrology anticipated, i.e. the entry for one day is read out the day before, e.g. today is 24th November so today at Prime, Lauds, or whenever the entry in the Martyrology for 25th November would have been read.
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Correct.
 
atara said:
I still kinda don’t get it- the difference between a solemnity & a feast.
I get that Solemnities are higher on the scale than feasts - :rolleyes:
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Try this document it might help: GNLYC. It explains the various type of holy day on p. 6 sqq.
 
Matthew_Holford said:
Can I just check because I’m not sure is the Martyrology anticipated, i.e. the entry for one day is read out the day before, e.g. today is 24th November so today at Prime, Lauds, or whenever the entry in the Martyrology for 25th November would have been read.
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The martyrology is indeed anticipated, but you celebrate the saint liturgically, on the day of the saint (the next day).
 
MarkThompson said:
I guess I don’t know the answer (do you?) to whether one can officially say that the feast of, for instance, St. Firmina is a Memorial. The quotation you gave, indicating that it “may be celebrated in the same way as other memorials,” would seem to indicate so. Either way, it is a feast, even though it does not have the liturgical rank of Feast, which is the main point I wanted to communicate since it seemed to be at the root of the confusion here.
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It seems to me that a Saint who is not on the calendar may have a “feast day” in the generic sense - a date assigned to them in the Martyrology - but does not have a Solemnity, Feast, or Memorial except if, when, and where they happen to be celebrated as such.

Example: St. Elijah the Prophet is assigned July 20 in the Martyrology. In the Carmelite calendars, that day is either a Solemnity or a Feast (depending on which Carmelite Order) of St. Elijah, with full propers. But in the general calendar, July 20 is just a ferial day, a regular weekday. So Elijah has nothing in the general calendar. But I took advantage of the provision referenced above, and celebrated July 20 in the Liturgy of the Hours as the Memorial of St. Elijah. So July 20 this year was a Memorial for me, a Solemnity or Feast for the Carmelites, and just a ferial day for most everyone else - but with the option open to them to celebrate it as a Memorial.

Another example: February 14 is traditionally St. Valentine’s Day. However, in the modern general Roman calendar, that’s now the (obligatory) Memorial of Sts. Cyril & Methodius. So I can’t choose to celebrate that day as a Memorial of St. Valentine at all. However, February 14 is the Solemnity of St. Valentine for any parish named “St. Valentine Catholic Church,” and it may also be in some proper calendars as a proper Feast or Memorial. However, outside of those places, a Memorial of St. Valentine can’t exist on the modern calendar.
 
Bbigam said:
It seems to me that a Saint who is not on the calendar may have a “feast day” in the generic sense - a date assigned to them in the Martyrology - but does not have a Solemnity, Feast, or Memorial except if, when, and where they happen to be celebrated as such.
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Right, but the generic sense is nevertheless an important one. This goes back to the original post: “I know this past week of a Solemnity of Christ the King, but I kept thinking it was a feast day.” Well, it was a feast day, even though in terms of its liturgical precedence it has been ranked as a Solemnity, not a Feast. This – and the fact that before 1969 they were all classified as Feasts, just of different classes – is why people often speak of the “Feast of Christ the King” or “Feast of the Assumption” instead of calling them Solemnities. In fact, I’d think it would sound weird if someone phrased a question like, “Did your church do anything nice for the Solemnity of the Assumption?”

I don’t think you’re disagreeing with me, I just wanted to make this point clear since it seems to me that that’s what was confusing our OP.
 
Spirithound said:
  1. During privileged seasons, if it is desired to celebrate the office of a saint on a day assigned to his or her memorial:
b. at morning prayer and evening prayer, the ending of the concluding prayer may be omitted and the saint’s antiphon (from the proper or common) and prayer may be added.
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OraLabora said:
…and celebrated as Spirithound says.
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Aw, gosh thanks, but actually I’m not entirely clear on what this means.

By “the ending of the concluding prayer”, does it mean the part that might be “through our Lord Jesus Christ, Your Son, who lives and reigns with You and the Holy Spirit, one God, forever and ever” ?

And then the saint’s antiphon from the Benedictus or Magnificat is said, then the saint’s closing prayer is prayed in full?
 
Spirithound said:
Aw, gosh thanks, but actually I’m not entirely clear on what this means.

By “the ending of the concluding prayer”, does it mean the part that might be “through our Lord Jesus Christ, Your Son, who lives and reigns with You and the Holy Spirit, one God, forever and ever” ?

And then the saint’s antiphon from the Benedictus or Magnificat is said, then the saint’s closing prayer is prayed in full?
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I had the same question. I think that’s how it’s done, but I’m not positive.
 
atara said:
I still kinda don’t get it- the difference between a solemnity & a feast.
I get that Solemnities are higher on the scale than feasts - :rolleyes:
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That’s the essential. Solemnities are of a higher rank than Feasts.
 
MarkThompson said:
Right, but the generic sense is nevertheless an important one. This goes back to the original post: “I know this past week of a Solemnity of Christ the King, but I kept thinking it was a feast day.” Well, it was a feast day, even though in terms of its liturgical precedence it has been ranked as a Solemnity, not a Feast. This – and the fact that before 1969 they were all classified as Feasts, just of different classes – is why people often speak of the “Feast of Christ the King” or “Feast of the Assumption” instead of calling them Solemnities. In fact, I’d think it would sound weird if someone phrased a question like, “Did your church do anything nice for the Solemnity of the Assumption?”

I don’t think you’re disagreeing with me, I just wanted to make this point clear since it seems to me that that’s what was confusing our OP.
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Yep, thanks for helping clarify.

Interestingly, I do often hear the Holy Day we celebrate on January 1 referred to as the “Solemnity of Mary.” Maybe it’s because we have so many feasts - Solemnities, Feasts, and Memorials - of the Blessed Virgin regarding various aspects, apparitions, and events in her life.
 
Bbigam said:
Yep, thanks for helping clarify.

Interestingly, I do often hear the Holy Day we celebrate on January 1 referred to as the “Solemnity of Mary.” Maybe it’s because we have so many feasts - Solemnities, Feasts, and Memorials - of the Blessed Virgin regarding various aspects, apparitions, and events in her life.
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And optional memorials too, including my favourite, the optional memorial to the BVM on Saturdays.
 
OraLabora said:
And optional memorials too, including my favourite, the optional memorial to the BVM on Saturdays.
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Yes! If I see an optional memorial of the BVM for Ordinary Saturdays or any other time in the year, I consider it obligatory and a privilege to celebrate (unless trumped by something truly obligatory of course).
 
What’s BVM?

And, are holy days of obligation considered Feasts in general?

So, a solemnity is a type of feast?
 
atara said:
What’s BVM?

And, are holy days of obligation considered Feasts in general?

So, a solemnity is a type of feast?
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BVM = Blessed Virgin Mary

I think that all holy days of obligation are Solemnities. The highest form of a feast.
 
atara said:
What’s BVM?

And, are holy days of obligation considered Feasts in general?

So, a solemnity is a type of feast?
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BVM=Blessed Virgin Mary. On Saturdays in Ordinary Time on which there is nothing obligatory, it’s permitted to celebrate the Blessed Virgin Mary as an Optional Memorial at the Office of Readings and Lauds (Morning Prayer), and for a priest to say a votive Mass of the BVM.

Yes, you could say that a Solemnity is a type of feast, the highest rank of feast. A Feast is the second rank of feast, and below that are Memorials, obligatory and optional.

There are highly-ranked days that are not feasts, such as Ash Wednesday, the weekdays of Holy Week, the Sacred Triduum, and All Souls Day, as well as (somewhat lower in rank) the last week of Advent and the weekdays of Lent.

All Holy Days of Obligation are Solemnities. However, there are Solemnities that are not Holy Days of Obligation, such as Annunciation, St. Joseph, and Sacred Heart (always on weekdays and never obligatory) and Nativity of St. John the Baptist (always on June 24, so only obligatory when it happens to fall on Sunday). Sts. Peter & Paul is always on June 29, and is a Holy Day of Obligation in some countries, but not the US (except when it falls on a Sunday).

Edit: I forgot that St. Joseph is a Holy Day of Obligation in a few places, but not in the US.
 
Holy days of obligation are days set aside by the Church on which we are to:
  • assist at Mass
  • rest from servile work
All Sundays are holy days of obligation. This means the Sundays of Advent, Lent and Easter. In the Christmas Season and Ordinary Time the Sunday is a holy day of obligation irrespective of the actual celebration on that Sunday: Sunday, solemnity, or feast of the Lord in the General Calendar. In addition to Sundays there are ten solemnities, called solemnities of precept, which are holy days of obligation –

Four in honour of the Lord:
    • Nativity (25 December)
    • Epiphany (6 January)
    • Ascension (Thursday in the Sixth Week of Easter)
    • Body and Blood of Christ (Thursday after Trinity Sunday)
    Three in honour of our Lady:
      • Mary, Mother of God (1 January)
      • Assumption (15 August)
      • Immaculate Conception (8 December)
      Three in honour of saints:
        • St. Joseph (19 March)
        • Saints Peter and Paul (29 June)
        • All Saints (1 November)
        The Holy See allows, with its recognitio, episcopal conferences to remove the precept from any of these solemnities. It asks that, at least, the Nativity be kept and one in honour of our Lady.

        If the precept is removed from the Epiphany, Ascension, and Body and Blood of Christ, the solemnity is transferred to a Sunday.

        In England and Wales, the precept has been removed from the Epiphany, Ascension, and Body and Blood of Christ, these are now celebrated, respectively, on the first Sunday after 1 January, Seventh Sunday of Easter, and Sunday after Trinity Sunday. The precept has been removed from Mary, Mother of God, Immaculate Conception, and St. Joseph. In England and Wales, there is also a rule, with the Holy See’s recognitio, that if Saints Peter and Paul, the Assumption, or All Saints fall on a Monday or Saturday the solemnity is transferred to the neighbouring Sunday.
 
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