Solipsism

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Now I do not think Partinobodycula is a real solipsist. If he were he wouldn’t be making an argument to us, non-existent figments of his imagination.
belorg,

I may not be a real Solopsist. As with most beliefs and philosophies it’s difficult to define just what the tenets of each belief are, and who qualiflies to be included.

But I choose to interact with these “figments of my imagination” because the alternative is to simply refuse to engage at all, and that would make for a very dull existence. I engage because I want to experience life. Why else would this “illusion” exist?

In fact I do tend to be a very introspective and withdrawn person. My interacting here a is a very unusual behaviour.

You should all consider yourselves very lucky.

Just kidding. 😃
 
There are a number of reasons why I remain silent, but they do not have to do with my being a Solipsist.

Words do not come easily for me. I am not the smartest or most educated person around, in fact I only have a ninth grade education. I don’t know who Kant was, or what epistomolgy is, I’m just a simple person. So oftentimes I notice a subject that interests me, but by the time I have written out a response the discussion has moved on without me. So I console myself with the knowledge that I have gained much, merely by contemplating the answer, and that my opinion was not of much importance anyway. People believe what they choose to believe, and my words will not change that. It is enough if they simply change me.
You have humility which is a sign of wisdom. Only fools think they are cleverer than other people! Your opinion is as important as anyone else’s because it is yours!🙂
Even if you are wrong you have the right to think for yourself. We are all fallible but that doesn’t mean we are gullible… or negligible…
 
JDaniel,
It is in fact true that I only have a ninth grade education, and that I’m not an avid reader. I don’t think that I’ve read a book in almost a decade. Probably, an early book on string theory. But what I lack in education I make up for in persistance. I will generally stick at something until it satisfies me. That is especially true with my writing. Whenever I write I keep a dictionary and a thesaurus handy, choosing just the right word.

A habit of mine is to every year set a challenge for myself. Sometimes they’re physical challenges, sometimes cerebral. Oddly, this years challenge is to edit one of my favorite poems, Renascence by Edna St. Vincent Millay. I have always liked this poem, but felt that some parts of it needed some minor changes.

So I suppose both your (a) and (b) apply, I truly am uneducated, but I am only as unintelligent as you judge me to be.

Edit: JDaniel, I would like to add that it is a pleasure reading your posts, Thank you
Part:

And right back at ya! 🙂 For a while there I would have sworn that you were a (b)! You seemed like a college level professor out to show his/her students how to have some fun.

I have never read that poem. On your recommendation (which I hope is not presumptuous) I will find it and read it. I’m a Sammy Coleridge, Tommy Elliott and Bill Shakespeare fan, myself.

God bless,
jd
 
It sounds like solipsism is the ultimate ego fuel: if you disagree, just believe the offending agent is not reality.
 
It sounds like solipsism is the ultimate ego fuel: if you disagree, just believe the offending agent is not reality.
Actually it makes me pretty darn easygoing, after all, there’s nobody to blame or impress, but me.

Of course there’s always the flipside. It can get depressing at times. So far as I know I ain’t God, I can get depressed, and angry, and short-tempered. But it’s also easy to forgive. Because any faults in others are right there in me too. Empathy is hard though. But I’m working on it. Funny, I can cry at sad movies, but real life…not so much.

I share, not because I want to impress anyone, or convert anyone. To be honest I really don’t care. I wish I did, but I don’t. I share because it makes me feel better. It’s very cathartic, and sometimes I need that.

I realize that this post is a bit off topic, but in case anyone out there is psychoanalyzing me, this should give you something to work wirh.
 
Actually it makes me pretty darn easygoing, after all, there’s nobody to blame or impress, but me.

Of course there’s always the flipside. It can get depressing at times. So far as I know I ain’t God, I can get depressed, and angry, and short-tempered. But it’s also easy to forgive. Because any faults in others are right there in me too. Empathy is hard though. But I’m working on it. Funny, I can cry at sad movies, but real life…not so much.

I share, not because I want to impress anyone, or convert anyone. To be honest I really don’t care. I wish I did, but I don’t. I share because it makes me feel better. It’s very cathartic, and sometimes I need that.

I realize that this post is a bit off topic, but in case anyone out there is psychoanalyzing me, this should give you something to work wirh.
Thinking is fun. Thanks for sharing!
 
I appreciate you posting this. I had never heard of solipsism until about 6 months ago. I wish I had the same acceptance for this as you do. For me it has caused nothing but anguish, depression and anxiety! It honestly sent me into a tailspin of emotions:confused:

I have a post on here somewhere titled “Solipsism Scares Me” from May or June! Im better now but still struggle with it!

My fear comes in the form of a question “what if solipsism is true and the people I love dont exist?” That causes me a great deal of heartache & depression to be honest. I have to be careful not to get caught up in the what if’s because its too painful for me. Of course the questioning doesnt stop there - I start questioning everything & its quite depressing at times.

All forms of solipsism cause me anxiety but metaphysical is one I could never accept!

So anyway I appreciate your honesty with this topic. Its a difficult one for me!
Im a mother to 2 great kids - they keep me grounded and really busy so I try not to dwell on it!
 
what if solipsism is true and the people I love dont exist?
Funny how things work out sometimes. It was, in fact, your original post that brought me here. I was doing a Google search on Solipsism, and among the many results, was your post. It was long forgotten, and buried beneath all the other posts about God, and morality, and the meaning of life. All those things which I had long ago given up arguing about. For to argue them proved futile and pointless. As vigorously as I tried to debate, as soundly as I tried to reason, and as eloquently as I tried to speak, my words fell impotent and powerless. They could change nothing. It seems better sometimes, not to care at all, then to care too much. So I find solace in silence instead. But your post prompted me to respond, however futilely, because at least for me, for a while anyway, it mattered. It’s not that anything that I had to say would change anyone, or convince anyone, or impress anyone, I simply wanted to try, even if it accomplished nothing. I could at least hope, that it would be of some small worth, if only to me. But it strikes me now that there are things which I have left unsaid. Things which speak to the heart of my Solipsism, and so I will try one last time to put them into words. I will disregard the futility, and my own ineptitude, and try.

One would think that Solipsism would produce only apathy. Why should a solipsist care about something that exists only in their mind? I can’t speak for other solipsists, I can only speak for myself. I care, because the alternative is to give up hope, to simply turn my back on the world, and slip inexorably into despair, and I can’t bring myself to do that, I can’t be indifferent, I have tried. Believe me, with all the injustice and hatred in the world, I have tried. You might think that it would be easy for a solipsist to simply block it all out, and pretend it doesn’t matter. After all, it’s not real anyway, and there’s nothing that I can do to change anything. There’s no wondrous deed that I can perform, no inspirational words that I can speak. It would be so much simpler if there were such words. But there aren’t. So why bother to try, it’s so much easier just to be indifferent. But like I say, I’ve tried. Despite so many reasons not to, I care. Maybe not as openly as some, or as deeply as some, but in my own unassuming way, I care. Solipsism is not a justification for indifference. The hatred and intolerance in this world are reason enough for that.

I realize that Solipsism can be depressing. To think that everything that you love may be only an illusion. All the things that once seemed so certain, may be no more than a dream. All the suffering seems pointless, and all the sacrifices meaningless. All you really know, is loneliness. When you speak, no one answers, when you cry, no one hears. You are the creator of all, and the lord of nothing. Some may choose to believe that you fancy yourself a God, but all that you are is alone. All your noble intentions count for nothing, all your compassion touches no one, all your cries go unheard, save but for yourself. To be a Solipsist is to glimpse, for the briefest of moments, the heart of God, to feel the emptiness that such omniscience brings. To know what solitude truly means. In the words of Edna St Vincent Millay, “For my omniscience paid I toll, in infinite remorse of soul.” Only a fool would choose to be a God. Solipsism doesn’t feed one’s ego, it crushes it.

So what is a solipsist to do? There is no other choice, but to cherish this life. Every last fleeting breath of it. Wrap your arms around it and never let go. Revel in all its diversity. For there is nobility, even in despair. There is beauty, even in suffering. In the hardest of times, and in the cruelest of places, abides the majesty of life. Fantastic, wonderful, glorious life. Full of heartache and remorse, love and triumph. In comfort or in struggle, wonderful, glorious life. It begets strength from adversity, mercy from injustice, and compassion from sorrow. Though others deem it too bitter, let my cup runneth over. Let me never dismiss it, let me embrace it. Be I king or pauper, slave or free, let me love my life. For if the alternative is to be alone, then I choose life, even if only a dream. And when it is over and done, and my journey is through, let me remember it all. Every last majestic sunrise, every sultry summer breeze, every love and every loss. Let me treasure them all. As momentary and illusory as they may be, they are not as nothing, they are everything. They are all that I have. They are…life.

You ask, “what if solipsism is true and the people I love dont exist?” Oh, as long as you can wrap your arms around them, they exist. As long as you can remember them, they will be. They are your heart and your soul. Without them you have nothing. They give you meaning and purpose. They give substance to you, as much as you give substance to them. Because of them you persevere, because of them you overcome, because of them you are more then you could have ever hoped to be, do not forsake them nor forget them. They are the embodiment of all that you love, and fear, and yearn for. With all their faults and failures they are the best of you, and the least of you. You are reflections of each other. Always, and in all things, cherish them. Solipsism is not a reason to love them less, it is a reason to love them more.

To be a Solipsist is to accept that there are things that you can never know. As steadfastly as you may choose to believe them, you can never truly know. But Solipsism is also the realization of just what a magnificent and miraculous gift life is. For all its trials and tribulations, life is a miraculous thing, whether by the hand of God, the fortuitous result of chance, or the product of a solitary mind, life is a miraculous thing. No matter the cost or circumstance, cherish it.
 
There are a number of reasons why I remain silent, but they do not have to do with my being a Solipsist.

Words do not come easily for me. I am not the smartest or most educated person around, in fact I only have a ninth grade education. I don’t know who Kant was, or what epistomolgy is, I’m just a simple person. So oftentimes I notice a subject that interests me, but by the time I have written out a response the discussion has moved on without me. So I console myself with the knowledge that I have gained much, merely by contemplating the answer, and that my opinion was not of much importance anyway. People believe what they choose to believe, and my words will not change that. It is enough if they simply change me.
please prove that you exist, and are not, in fact, a figament of my imagination
 
I think subscribing to such a philosophy as this is cowardly, at first I thought it was based on selfishness but after reading it seems that it is based on fear. Ironically, you are treating the world as if it were real. You don’t really believe in Solipsism because if you did you would come off as more self-absorbed. Perhaps the silence has given you time to reflect. If i were you I would pray to God for the opportunity to be brave.
 
belief isn’t about what we WANT to be true, it is about what IS true…there is more evidence, much more evidence against solipsism than for it, it’s time to man up and face the world, your soul is at stake
 
Solipsism is the belief that nothing can be known to exist outside of one’s own mind. It’s not that a Solipsist knows without a doubt, that nothing exists outside of themselves, it’s just that there is no way to know for sure. Everything that one sees, or hears, or feels, or tastes, or smells, may simply be an illusion. A Solipsist does accept the possibilty that everything that they see is real, they simply recognize the fact that they can never know for sure. All that a Solipsist knows for sure, is that I am. Everything beyond this one simple truth must be accepted on faith.
  1. All that a Solipsist knows for sure is that events occur
  2. He believes he exists because he can control **some **of those events
  3. He knows he cannot control all those events
  4. So he **believes **other entities exist
  5. Belief in himself **and **other entities is justified because his control of events leads to results but sometimes those results interfere with his control of events! 🙂
 
I wonder if a Solipsist thinks the world is an illusion when he finds himself stuck in hell?
 
I think subscribing to such a philosophy as this is cowardly,
This may very well be, I know that I cannot claim any great courage. I am far more sinner than saint.
Ironically, you are treating the world as if it were real.
It is all that I have. To deny it is to leave me with nothing. To deny it is to leave me in my own personal hell, and so I embrace it, for I have considered my existence without it.
You don’t really believe in Solipsism because if you did you would come off as more self-absorbed. Perhaps the silence has given you time to reflect.
Perhaps you are correct, and I should be more self-absorbed, but silence is a powerful teacher. It has I hope, taught me humility.
belief isn’t about what we WANT to be true, it is about what IS true…
“Reality” is about what IS true, belief is about what one wishes or fears to be true, and faith is the difference between the two.
I wonder if a Solipsist thinks the world is an illusion when he finds himself stuck in hell?
If that “hell” is to be alone for all of eternity, then he knows that it is all too real. If it is a fiery world of eternal torment, then the Solipsist would consider the possibility that that too is but an illusion.
 
  1. All that a Solipsist knows for sure is that events occur
All that I know for sure is that I am. I am self-aware. “Events” appear to occur outside of myself, but I cannot confirm their independant existence.
  1. He believes he exists because he can control **some **of those events
Control of events is not necessary to affirm my existence. I think therefore I am. I am self-aware.
  1. He knows he cannot control all those events
I know that I do not consciously control all events, this is true. But this does not mean that said events occur independant of my own mind. While you sleep, you dream, correct. I assume that you do not control every aspect of your dreams, but still they exist only in your mind.
  1. So he **believes **other entities exist
What I choose to believe, and what I know, are two different things. I can choose to believe that other entities exist, but I have no way of knowing if they do in fact exist independant of myself.
  1. Belief in himself **and **other entities is justified because his control of events leads to results but sometimes those results interfere with his control of events! 🙂
My lack of control over events is not evidence that those events occur, or are influenced by entities, independant of my own mind.
 
A Solipsist does accept the possibilty that everything that they see is real, they simply recognize the fact that they can never know for sure. All that a Solipsist knows for sure, is that I am. Everything beyond this one simple truth must be accepted on faith.
Here is an excellent threat in which that last point about having to take everything (beyond the existence of one’s own mind) on faith is refuted. It’s old and the person who started it has since been banned so I do not recommend reviving it.

A sample of the OP to give you an idea of the argument advanced in that thread:
Then, our friendly neighborhood Matrix fan comes to the rescue of his fellows, spewing out the following bit of nonsense, the pot smoke just barely detectable through the computer screen:
“What evidence do you have that there’s a real world outside of your mind?”
Now, anyone who is even halfway paying attention should be able to observe that our young stoner is confused about terminology. When people talk about the world and make claims about the world, they’re not making metaphysical declarations: they’re discussing the consistent world revealed by our senses. In other words, “the real world” is the label that people put on the consistent world revealed by our senses.
For example, let’s pretend that the world that our senses reveal to us is actually a complex computer simulation being fed into my brain – which is in a vat, of course – by a mad scientist in some other “real world.” All of that wouldn’t change the fact that we know that in the world revealed by our senses, evidence tells us that objects fall at the rate of 32 feet per second per second (on this planet, anyway). All of that wouldn’t change the fact that we know that in the world revealed by our senses, there is insufficient evidence to accept the claim that Bigfoot exists. And all of that wouldn’t change the fact that we know that in the world revealed by our senses, there is insufficient evidence to accept the claim that gods exist.
 
hell isn’t being alone, it is being tormented in eternal fire with the prescense of the devil, demons, and other damned souls
 
1. All that a Solipsist knows
“I” and “self” are abstract concepts. When you are a baby you are first aware of your thoughts, feelings and perceptions. As you develop you become aware of yourself when your parents refer to “you” but you still don’t know **what **you are. None of us know what we are because we are not God! We don’t understand **how **we exist but we know we can think and choose what to do.
“Events” appear to occur outside of myself, but I cannot confirm their independent existence.
You can confirm that they exist by your ability to manipulate them - to a certain extent.
2. He believes
he exists because he can control **some **of those events

Control of events is not necessary to affirm my existence.

If you can’t control your thoughts or actions you can’t affirm anything!
I think therefore I am. I am self-aware.
You are just repeating Descartes! You have thoughts - which lead you to infer that you exist.
3. He knows
  • he cannot control all those events
I know that I do not consciously control all events, this is true. But this does not mean that said events occur independently of my own mind. While you sleep, you dream, correct. I assume that you do not control every aspect of your dreams, but still they exist only in your mind.

But you distinguish reality by its regularity, continuity and independence whereas dreams are ephemeral and unpredictable…
4. So he **believes **
*other entities exist

What I choose to believe, and what I know, are two different things. I can choose to believe that other entities exist, but I have no way of knowing if they do in fact exist independently of myself.

If you choose to believe other entities don’t exist you will have an accidnet and the pain will soon convince you!
5. Belief
  • in himself **and **other entities is justified because his control of events leads to results but sometimes those results interfere with his control of events!
My lack of control over events is not evidence that those events occur, or are influenced by entities, independent of my own mind.

If you really believed that you would walk across the road without bothering to see if anything is coming…:stretcher:!
 
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