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AKDee
Guest
I will read that, thank you.
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Exiled_Child
Guest
Thank you for this link.
I wonder, though, whether letting sixteen year olds mix with adult prison populations might not be an even more gruesome form of torture?
I suppose it partly comes down to individual personality traits and personality types.
Although it would probably be more jarring than I imagine, I would still personally prefer solitary confinement if I was serving a prison sentence.
Better to be productive and alone than subjected to “The Animal Factory.”
It would depend 100% on whether or not I had access to books and writing materials.
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Tomdstone
Guest
I don’t think that you would have access to the books you wanted to read under solitary confinement.It would depend 100% on whether or not I had access to books and writing materials.
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AKDee
Guest
Having viewed that link, I am disturbed. I wonder why we are housing teens at a place like Rikers? I know in my state we do not house teens in prisons meant for adults. We have “juvenile detention facilities” where such teens are housed. Whether they engage in solitary confinement, I don’t know. Perhaps they do. I noted in that article that the “gotcha games” I mentioned in previous posts were there - “15 days solitary for not making the bed”, “15 days solitary for not leaving the door to your cell open”, “10 days solitary for being caught in another prisoner’s cell.”
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mikekle
Guest
Without ‘something’…Absolutely, that is cruelty, no two ways about it…that is 24 hours a day…doing NOTHING, no interaction, no talking, reading, etc. It would not take long for someone to loose their mind in this situation.I don’t think that you would have access to the books you wanted to read under solitary confinement.
I would not be surprised if this was being done with juveniles, have a feeling alot goes on in jail, that we, on the outside are not privy to.
Prime example, the other day, I was watching some show on prisons, they had a camera crew inside a state prison in CA, they said the prison has policy to actually segregate different races!! They have certain sections for blacks, others for whites, for northern Mexicans, another for southern Mexians, and so on…and these policies were very strict, were enforced by the guards, why is the state forcing segregation based on race, in a state run facility? I almost could not believe it, unless I misunderstood, but it did appear, the inmates KNEW to avoid certain areas, those areas which other races were assigned to. Maybe our law makers do not know this is going on?
Plus that policy just reeks of corruption…what do they expect to happen if they house all the races together with no interaction…of course there is going to be more violence, gangs, they are based on race, so it seems the prisons are just catering to their desires, if this is accurate.
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InigoMontoya
Guest
Different facilities have different policies on literature or books in solitary confinement. In many cases, they’re allowed to some extent. Unfortunately, what often preempts someone’s stay in solitary confinement is violence towards inmates or officers. By not allowing books or magazines to exchange hands with someone in solitary confinement, a prison significantly reduces the opportunity for the individual in solitary to order violence be carried out in response to their confinement. We’re not dealing with saints here, this is a real issue.Without ‘something’…Absolutely, that is cruelty, no two ways about it…that is 24 hours a day…doing NOTHING, no interaction, no talking, reading, etc. It would not take long for someone to loose their mind in this situation.
I would not be surprised if this was being done with juveniles, have a feeling alot goes on in jail, that we, on the outside are not privy to.
Prime example, the other day, I was watching some show on prisons, they had a camera crew inside a state prison in CA, they said the prison has policy to actually segregate different races!! They have certain sections for blacks, others for whites, for northern Mexicans, another for southern Mexians, and so on…and these policies were very strict, were enforced by the guards, why is the state forcing segregation based on race, in a state run facility? I almost could not believe it, unless I misunderstood, but it did appear, the inmates KNEW to avoid certain areas, those areas which other races were assigned to. Maybe our law makers do not know this is going on?
Plus that policy just reeks of corruption…what do they expect to happen if they house all the races together with no interaction…of course there is going to be more violence, gangs, they are based on race, so it seems the prisons are just catering to their desires, if this is accurate.
Perhaps you’re not aware, and I believe you should be thankful of that, but race is a huge deal within prisons. We’re not talking about a sub-culture that’s politically correct and willing to satisfy idealistic equality standards.
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pnewton
Guest
I checked out your article. In principle, I agree with it and with you, but it is hard to tell. There is more spin than news. Names are not mentioned. Circumstance are not mentioned (other than confinement). 16-18 year olds are called children and solitary torture. It is too much to wade through.If you would read what I posted in #24, you would see:
Kids in Solitary Confinement: America’s Official Child Abuse
“The title of this post is the title of our most recent piece for The Guardian. It draws on a new report released yesterday by Human Rights Watch and the American Civil Liberties Union, titled Growing Up Locked Down: Youth in Solitary Confinement in Jails and Prisons Across the United States. The report is a shocking and powerful document, and should not be missed. Our piece on it follows.”
solitarywatch.com/2012/10/11/kids-in-solitary-confinement-americas-official-child-abuse/
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pnewton
Guest
I have never heard of any place that does not allow books in solitary confinement as a matter of course. I say the last part because anything can be disallowed if used inappropriately, as in, to make a weapon, to jam locks, to start a fire, etc.
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pnewton
Guest
The first point I can probably answer. Certain violent crimes allow those under 18 to be certified as an adult. At that point, they must be segregated from other non-violent juveniles. As to the second point, I am dubious. This article is extremely biased relying on the say-so of the individuals in prisons and jails. While exceptions exist, most correctional officers are* not *so energetic an full of enthusiasm to go looking for extra paperwork to do and duties to perform.Having viewed that link, I am disturbed. I wonder why we are housing teens at a place like Rikers?.. Perhaps they do. I noted in that article that the “gotcha games” I mentioned in previous posts were there - “15 days solitary for not making the bed”, “15 days solitary for not leaving the door to your cell open”, “10 days solitary for being caught in another prisoner’s cell.”
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Horton
Guest
I believe they segregate gang members (STGs) in this way. These groups tend to have very powerful and violent prison gangs. Those with no STG affiliation are housed in non segregated areas.Without ‘something’…Absolutely, that is cruelty, no two ways about it…that is 24 hours a day…doing NOTHING, no interaction, no talking, reading, etc. It would not take long for someone to loose their mind in this situation.
I would not be surprised if this was being done with juveniles, have a feeling alot goes on in jail, that we, on the outside are not privy to.
Prime example, the other day, I was watching some show on prisons, they had a camera crew inside a state prison in CA, they said the prison has policy to actually segregate different races!! They have certain sections for blacks, others for whites, for northern Mexicans, another for southern Mexians, and so on…and these policies were very strict, were enforced by the guards, why is the state forcing segregation based on race, in a state run facility? I almost could not believe it, unless I misunderstood, but it did appear, the inmates KNEW to avoid certain areas, those areas which other races were assigned to. Maybe our law makers do not know this is going on?
Plus that policy just reeks of corruption…what do they expect to happen if they house all the races together with no interaction…of course there is going to be more violence, gangs, they are based on race, so it seems the prisons are just catering to their desires, if this is accurate.
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Robert_Sock
Guest
How is solitary confinement cruel? And how is it ineffective? I do not buy it. We as Catholics know that silence and solitude are valuable in our growing spiritual, and I believe it can be valuable to the hardened criminal. I’m a psychologist and I believe people who hate being alone are already being abused by their own self.
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pnewton
Guest
That would be more believable. Perhaps the facility in question housed mostly people that were high risks and more involved in these threat groups.I believe they segregate gang members (STGs) in this way. These groups tend to have very powerful and violent prison gangs. Those with no STG affiliation are housed in non segregated areas.
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Horton
Guest
We as Catholics do value silence & solitude but very few people can handle that 23 hours a day, 7 days a week, for weeks on end.How is solitary confinement cruel? And how is it ineffective? I do not buy it. We as Catholics know that silence and solitude are valuable in our growing spiritual, and I believe it can be valuable to the hardened criminal. I’m a psychologist and I believe people who hate being alone are already being abused by their own self.
Again it’s been my experience that segregation and solitary confinement are being used interchangeably in this thread. Solitary confinement is celled up with little to no outside stimulation. Segregation is often a single cell with little time outside the cell but still having access to stimulation like books, TV, radio, and depending on the setup of the prison some interaction with other inmates.
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Robert_Sock
Guest
From personal experience, solitude and silence is key to their chance for (inner) freedom.We as Catholics do value silence & solitude but very few people can handle that 23 hours a day, 7 days a week, for weeks on end.
Again it’s been my experience that segregation and solitary confinement are being used interchangeably in this thread. Solitary confinement is celled up with little to no outside stimulation. Segregation is often a single cell with little time outside the cell but still having access to stimulation like books, TV, radio, and depending on the setup of the prison some interaction with other inmates.
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pnewton
Guest
That is a good point. Being housed by oneself can be done many ways along a continuum. Not all ways are as harsh.We as Catholics do value silence & solitude but very few people can handle that 23 hours a day, 7 days a week, for weeks on end.
Again it’s been my experience that segregation and solitary confinement are being used interchangeably in this thread. Solitary confinement is celled up with little to no outside stimulation. Segregation is often a single cell with little time outside the cell but still having access to stimulation like books, TV, radio, and depending on the setup of the prison some interaction with other inmates.
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Johann_du_Toit
Guest
T be honest, in the unfortunate event that I am ever imprisoned (which I hope never happens, since I am a law abiding citizen) I would rather be held in isolation then made to share a block with 50+ other prisoners yearning to do me physical harm in the most despicable ways.
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mikekle
Guest
Why would they be looking to do you any bodily harm? From what Ive heard they really hate child molesters and people cruel to animals, now those people, Yes, they do make them suffer, but the average criminal, Id say its not that violent, I watch the news every night, usually they show people going before a judge in many court cases, they are usually alright, dont have cuts, bruises, black eyes, etc.T be honest, in the unfortunate event that I am ever imprisoned (which I hope never happens, since I am a law abiding citizen) I would rather be held in isolation then made to share a block with 50+ other prisoners yearning to do me physical harm in the most despicable ways.
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Johann_du_Toit
Guest
Some people are messed up and want to inflict pain and suffering on others for no particular reason. Said category of people are more likely than most to end up as guests of the state. Hence the chances of encountering such persons in jail or prison increase exponentially.Why would they be looking to do you any bodily harm? From what Ive heard they really hate child molesters and people cruel to animals, now those people, Yes, they do make them suffer, but the average criminal, Id say its not that violent, I watch the news every night, usually they show people going before a judge in many court cases, they are usually alright, dont have cuts, bruises, black eyes, etc.
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InigoMontoya
Guest
While thankful, I’m afraid that you’re a bit out of touch with what existence in a prison is like. They’re filled with predators, who look for people weak to prey on… violence happens. Also, arguably unfortunately, since the PREA Act was passed there’s no longer any significant animosity towards those perpetrators of the most vile crimes; as they’re almost a protected class of inmate.Why would they be looking to do you any bodily harm? From what Ive heard they really hate child molesters and people cruel to animals, now those people, Yes, they do make them suffer, but the average criminal, Id say its not that violent, I watch the news every night, usually they show people going before a judge in many court cases, they are usually alright, dont have cuts, bruises, black eyes, etc.
When you’re watching the news at night, you’re generally watching people who are being prosecuted for crimes and either have been free on bail or merely residing during the proceedings in a county jail. That’s often a far cry from a real prison. Additionally, a person isn’t going to be attacked each day, but the threat of violence will always be present. Not a nice place.
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pnewton
Guest
Not everywhere is this the case. PREA was an ill-conceived effort to fix a problem universally that is simply not a universal problem. My own governor decided not to follow it.While thankful, I’m afraid that you’re a bit out of touch with what existence in a prison is like. They’re filled with predators, who look for people weak to prey on… violence happens.
No, I think mikekle is right about at least some prisons.
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