Solving the decline in belief of the Real Presence.

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rcn:
You are expected to “know” what the Church teaches. The only reason that you know anything about God, is because it has been revealed through his Church.

You know what you can do with your “wagging finger”, don’t you?

The Church is God’s representative on earth. If the Church says that in the US and other regions, we may receive in the hand… and yet you still insist that your hands are unworthy, you are contradicting the Church, and setting a bad example for others by your statement.

You are free to receive on the tongue, but you must not profess the “unworthiness of your hands”, because the Church has told you that this is not so.
i guess im not contradicting the church because i know that the church is allowing communion both in hands and in tongue and i follow and believe in that. what i am saying is my own personal view (applicable to myself only).

i am not setting a bad example to others because i am not talking in behalf of the church. i am sharing my own view in this matter. i am not telling people that if your hands are unworthy then don’t recieve communion in handsnor directly saying that your hands are not worthy.

What is important is to follow the doctrine of the church and adopt it.
 
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amasimp:
The early Church used to celebrate Mass in eachother’s homes…does that mean that we should head over to the Jones’ ever Sunday?

The early Church also used to celebrate Mass in catacombs surrounded by dead people…does that mean that we should now go to the local mortuary for Mass?

At some point, there needs to be an examination of why early church practices were ended. In most cases, it was in response to a heresy that developed surrounding the belief in the Real Presence. Since a return to our “early Church” practices we are seeing those heresies pop up again.

The early Church was wise in abandoning practices that eroded belief in the Real Presence. Maybe it is now time to really follow their example.
Post hoc, ergo propter hoc…
 
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PiusXIII:
I think a big part of it has to do with poor religious ed training. I know many relatives in their 20s and 30s who were NEVER told at the time of their first communion that they were receiving the body and blood of Christ. One seemed shocked when a few years ago it was mentioned to him about Catholic belief in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

He said, “We don’t believe that—we believe that it’s bread and wine.”

Disheartening to say the least.
And I’ll bet your relative never turned the cover of the CCC.
 
An example of emphasis in teaching: I talked personally with the Pastor of a Catholic Church that we regularly attended during our exile from our local should be Catholic Church. I asked him if we could have more sermons about the Divine Presence in the Holy Eucharist (as opposed to none, but I didn’t say that to him). Having grandchildren approaching their First Confession and First Holy Communion I was keenly aware of the absence of any discussion of the Holy Eucharist. This lack of attention was very apparent among people attending Holy Mass. This church has the Tabernacle placed off to the side (church has been “renovated”)
where many people pass directly in front of to reach a large seating area. Hanging above the Tabernacle are three candles to designate that Our Lord is Present; but that carries no meaning. People pass directly in front, around, take pictures when special celebrations occur. All this without a pause of thought for Our Lord. Some people will reach their row to be seated and will make a half-gesture genuflection towards - who knows? So this was all on my heart in requesting to hear about the Most Important. Well, his most often repeated sermons included the example of “stewardship”. I know we learned more about being a good steward in any form, shape or way till it was up to our eyeballs! Our conversation was pleasant but I did not receive any enthusiastic response to my request, it was more like “the people just don’t get it and I can’t put it in their heads”. He is suffering from discouragement, depression, cynicism and feeling overwhelmed at varying levels and he needs our prayers. After a couple weeks went by, he did mention the Holy Eucharist - but it was not enough and did not build on it during the coming weeks.
This being the Year of the Holy Eucharist, beg your priest to offer the true teaching of our Catholic Faith!
 
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rcn:
And shouting helps them to understand… how? I don’t get it.
😃
If you ever taught 6 & 7 year olds, you wouldn’t have to ask this question.
 
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rcn:
Has anyone suggested yet that the premise of this thread is simply baseless? That there is in fact no “decline in belief of the Real Presence”?

I hope no one is using that “only 30% believe survey”, because it’s been thoroughly debunked by Catholic Answers, way back in 1999 !
catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9910qq.asp
When I married a Catholic in 1987, many of his friends and family assumed I would come into the Church. When I told them I didn’t believe in the Real Presence, didn’t think I needed to confess my sins to a priest and didn’t agree with the moral teaching of the Church w/r/t sexuality their responses were universally “well, it’s kind of symbolic, I mean, we’re not cannibals”, “well, no one really goes to confession anymore”, and “well, no one really follows that”. My response was “well come on over to the dark side, you’re more Methodist than you are Catholic.” Felt like I knew more about what they were supposed to believe than they did.

From those exchanges I had the very strong impression that many Catholics did not know or at least believe in the Real Presence. Now that I am a Catholic, I know many who do believe, ardently, but I would also say I know many more who would seem not to. And yes, some of this is judged by their actions in front of the Blessed Sacrament.

I go back to the quote of someone, not Catholic, who said, if Catholics really believed, wouldn’t they be on their knees constantly, or flat on our faces. Would we have to BEG them to come to adoration? Wouldn’t we have to have a lottery to draw times for adoration, to be sure everyone got a chance to have time in the packed chapel?

I do think that the principle of Lex credendi, Lex orendi, is a part of it. As people pray so they believe. Just like good manners. If kids are trained to show respect to their elders in their actions, they are more likely to ultimately absorb that respect, and make it their own. As we drop the gestures of respect, (or, for instance, turn genuflection into a brief curtsey) we stop *demonstrating * our devotion, and it makes our children less likely to pick up on, or understand, our devotion, or develop their own devotion.

Every society has had specific* gestures* of respect to demonstrate and, yes, foster respect. Bowing, kneeling, prostration, are all sacramental gestures that make present the invisible reality which they signify and convey. We are spirits made flesh. We convey our spiritual devotion with physical gestures.

No, our devotion isn’t necessarily dependent on these gestures individually. But collectively, they convey and create an atmosphere which makes this devotion present in a tangible way. Personally the most reverent atmosphere I’ve been privilidged to be witness to was at St. Agnes Catholic Church in St. Paul MN. All received on the tongue, kneeling, at the altar rail, from a priest, with an altar boy holding a paten under your chin. The Sunday I was there they were celebrating two first masses for two just ordained priests from their parish. The music was sacramental, the dress of those attending conveyed the fact that this was the most special thing they were to accomplish this week. They’ve also had 21 vocations in 20 years in this parish alone.

Gestures not withstanding, we also need to be taught from scratch. Kudos to those teaching CCD classes about the Real Presence, and those asking priests to do the same. I am priviledged to have a wonderful priest who emphasizes adoration and Real Presence. In our RCIA class I know several spouses and sponsers who have had their appreciation for the Real Presence come alive for the first time ever, sometimes. We needs the words as well as the gestures. My 2 cents anyway.
 
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rcn:
And shouting helps them to understand… how? I don’t get it.
Hello and sorry about the delay to your question as my instant notification to threads is not working…

By shouting I mean that they were standing up in class, enthusiastically verbalizing about the Real Presence by saying the words:
the Eurcharist is the BODY, BLOOD, SOUL AND DIVINITY of Jesus Christ!

They will make their 1st Communion knowing the Real Presence unlike the example given which started this thread.

My students are contagious as some of their parents have asked me about it and I have been able to present them with adult literature.

Praise the Lord!
Joanie
 
Its nothing particularly new that some folks don’t believe in the Catholic dogma vis a vis Holy Communion. This just isn’t going to change.

But what is of concern that the church can do something about is that many don’t know what the dogma is.

The Church can’t force belief, but she teach the folks what the official doctrine is.
 
IMHO it started with the collapse of catechesis. We went from the Baltimore Catechism to coloring books .Tha we had the children can’t sin at 7 ( all of a sudden ) so why not give them Communion without confession. Than the biggie
" Communion in Hand " That I believe realy did it and now we aren’t sapose to Kneel for the Consecration ,God help us what next !
 
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ames61:
When I married a Catholic in 1987, many of his friends and family assumed I would come into the Church. When I told them I didn’t believe in the Real Presence, didn’t think I needed to confess my sins to a priest and didn’t agree with the moral teaching of the Church w/r/t sexuality their responses were universally “well, it’s kind of symbolic, I mean, we’re not cannibals”, “well, no one really goes to confession anymore”, and “well, no one really follows that”. My response was “well come on over to the dark side, you’re more Methodist than you are Catholic.” Felt like I knew more about what they were supposed to believe than they did.

From those exchanges I had the very strong impression that many Catholics did not know or at least believe in the Real Presence. Now that I am a Catholic, I know many who do believe, ardently, but I would also say I know many more who would seem not to. And yes, some of this is judged by their actions in front of the Blessed Sacrament.

I go back to the quote of someone, not Catholic, who said, if Catholics really believed, wouldn’t they be on their knees constantly, or flat on our faces. Would we have to BEG them to come to adoration? Wouldn’t we have to have a lottery to draw times for adoration, to be sure everyone got a chance to have time in the packed chapel?

I do think that the principle of Lex credendi, Lex orendi, is a part of it. As people pray so they believe. Just like good manners. If kids are trained to show respect to their elders in their actions, they are more likely to ultimately absorb that respect, and make it their own. As we drop the gestures of respect, (or, for instance, turn genuflection into a brief curtsey) we stop *demonstrating * our devotion, and it makes our children less likely to pick up on, or understand, our devotion, or develop their own devotion.

Every society has had specific* gestures* of respect to demonstrate and, yes, foster respect. Bowing, kneeling, prostration, are all sacramental gestures that make present the invisible reality which they signify and convey. We are spirits made flesh. We convey our spiritual devotion with physical gestures.

No, our devotion isn’t necessarily dependent on these gestures individually. But collectively, they convey and create an atmosphere which makes this devotion present in a tangible way. Personally the most reverent atmosphere I’ve been privilidged to be witness to was at St. Agnes Catholic Church in St. Paul MN. All received on the tongue, kneeling, at the altar rail, from a priest, with an altar boy holding a paten under your chin. The Sunday I was there they were celebrating two first masses for two just ordained priests from their parish. The music was sacramental, the dress of those attending conveyed the fact that this was the most special thing they were to accomplish this week. They’ve also had 21 vocations in 20 years in this parish alone.

Gestures not withstanding, we also need to be taught from scratch. Kudos to those teaching CCD classes about the Real Presence, and those asking priests to do the same. I am priviledged to have a wonderful priest who emphasizes adoration and Real Presence. In our RCIA class I know several spouses and sponsers who have had their appreciation for the Real Presence come alive for the first time ever, sometimes. We needs the words as well as the gestures. My 2 cents anyway.
:amen: Wonderful post, right on the mark!!
 
The answer to this that pertains to the Church in toto is too long for me to attempt, so I will relate what I, personally, do. In my area there is access to 3 or 4 Adoration chapels, so I talk people into a short term committment of holy hours with Jesus (even if they don’t ‘get it’ or believe or waver on the subject). In 99% of the cases I’ve convinced to do 1 holy hour a week for a month, they soon are going 2 and 3 times a week or even every day! Get them there…Jesus does the rest!🙂 🙂 🙂
 
I would say three things are at least partiailly responsible.

A general acceptance in what we’ll call the Social Gospel

The ascendency of Liberalism as a belief through the 20th century

The lack of catechisis in the hard cold facts of the faith

As a fourthI would say ecumenism although I’m sure to be bashed on that one as I believe it to be the most important.

When you remove all of the supernatural elements of faith and reduce religion to the acceptance of God, in some mystical form or another, doesn’t matter which, the historical truth of Christ the man, the dignity of man and love, you end up with what many Catholics as well as protestants believe these days. A senseless hodgepodge of feel good platitudes and a removal of any strict requirements for faith. Believe what you want. Live a moral life and you’ll be fine.

I say ecumenism because by accepting other beliefs as being valid we cast doubt on the absolute truth of our own faith. There is only one absolute truth not a thousand. Either the Eucharist is or is not the actual body and blood of Christ. It cannot be both. It is not our belief that makes it so. On that basis alone I would say that creeping ecumenism is a huge factor in our decline in belief of the Real Presence.
 
I would say three things are at least partiailly responsible.

A general acceptance in what we’ll call the Social Gospel

The ascendency of Liberalism as a belief through the 20th century

The lack of catechisis in the hard cold facts of the faith

As a fourthI would say ecumenism although I’m sure to be bashed on that one as I believe it to be the most important.

When you remove all of the supernatural elements of faith and reduce religion to the acceptance of God, in some mystical form or another, doesn’t matter which, the historical truth of Christ the man, the dignity of man and love, you end up with what many Catholics as well as protestants believe these days. A senseless hodgepodge of feel good platitudes and a removal of any strict requirements for faith. Believe what you want. Live a moral life and you’ll be fine.

I say ecumenism because by accepting other beliefs as being valid we cast doubt on the absolute truth of our own faith. There is only one absolute truth not a thousand. Either the Eucharist is or is not the actual body and blood of Christ. It cannot be both. It is not our belief that makes it so. On that basis alone I would say that creeping ecumenism is a huge factor in our decline in belief of the Real Presence.
Couldn’t have said it better.
 
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