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Karin
Guest
So what you are saying is that SINGLE parents should go on WELFARE so they can stay at home and raise their kids?
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Rob_s_Wife
Guest
So what you are saying is that SINGLE parents should go on WELFARE so they can stay at home and raise their kids?
:clapping:Of all the use of taxes I would complain about - I would never complain about that use.
I can think of no better use for a dollar than to see to it that children are in the care of their loving families!
It is silly to spend a fortune paying a third party to watch children while the parents work themselves to the bone to barely have a dime left after paying the daycare and work expenses. I’d much rather see my taxes go directly to the parents so they can be there to care for their own children. It just makes more economic sense and family sense.
I’m also more than a bit confused about the whole “single parent” title. As far as I can tell, the only single parents are widows. Otherwise the kid still has another parent that is responsible for their care too.
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Rob_s_Wife
Guest
Again, there seems to be a lack of clarity that this is a Catholic run facility. It seemed to me as though the parish will not actually be running to facility - just collecting rent from it, which is bothersome to me. Otherwise, I agree it would be an outreach of the Church.
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Karin
Guest
Rob’s Wife said:
**Of all the use of taxes I would complain about - I would never complain about that use. **
I can think of no better use for a dollar than to see to it that children are in the care of their loving families!
It is silly to spend a fortune paying a third party to watch children while the parents work themselves to the bone to barely have a dime left after paying the daycare and work expenses. I’d much rather see my taxes go directly to the parents so they can be there to care for their own children. It just makes more economic sense and family sense.
I’m also more than a bit confused about the whole “single parent” title. As far as I can tell, the only single parents are widows. Otherwise the kid still has another parent that is responsible for their care too.
Single parent-refers to a couple that is divorced not living under the same roof etc.It means that more than 50% of the time a child is being raised by only ONE parent- they live with only ONE parent and visit during holidays/weekends the other parent.
yes these children have another parent but if you are not legally married that other parent does not have an obligation to suppot you so you can stay home.
As to using my tax monies to have people sit at home jus tso they could raise thier kids…NOPE do not agree!
If this is such an issue for these people (lack of funds etc that you mentioned) than perhaps they should of thought about that before having kids out of wedlock or before they got divorced!
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Della
Guest
Rob’s Wife said:
There is no canon law that I know of that prevents a parish from owning property and renting it out. It doesn’t have to be used strictly for any sort of Catholic outreach, either.
Our parish has two facilities on the property that bring in revenue that are senior citizen living and assisted living. It’s nice for those residents who are Catholic to be able to go from their apartments and through the parish complex to go to Mass and other parish events. The winters get quite harsh here in MN and the summers can be steaming hot. But, non-Catholics also live in the facilities.
So, even if the daycare isn’t strictly a Catholic one, it is providing a proper, legal service to people in the community and the parish is benefiting from the rent. I don’t see a problem with this at all. The Catholic Church sees good in the secular business world as well as in direct parish outreach. There’s no need or an either/or dichotomy here.
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Rob_s_Wife
Guest
**Not everyone has a choice and the same could be said for any parent that needs daycare and would rather care for their children themselves - “should’ve thought about that first”.****
**The state of a persons life when they have a child may not be the same as later in life, making the need to seek help neccessary. If they need help with child care - I’d rather my tax money be for them to care for their own children, than some stranger/3rd party.
**No, the non-custody parent doesn’t have to pay them to be SAH - but they usually do have to pay child support and they can be helpfull in making decisions for the child’s care - if the parent with custody should care to let them.
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Rob_s_Wife
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I do. I wouldn’t mind at all if the children are Catholic or not, but I would want the facility to be Catholic if my parish money went to build and maintain it. To me, it’s no different than Catholic schools. Non-catholics can attend too and, but it is a Catholic facility. Why would I want to fund or receive funds from a secular institution (let’s say some public school or non-denomination private school) with my parish donations?
I never said it was against canon law. I said I didn’t agree with it and could see where the parish would be divided over using parish funds in such a manner.
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Karin
Guest
Rob’s Wife said:**Not everyone has a choice and the same could be said for any parent that needs daycare and would rather care for their children themselves - “should’ve thought about that first”.****
The state of a persons life when they have a child may not be the same as later in life, making the need to seek help neccessary. If they need help with child care - I’d rather my tax money be for them to care for their own children, than some stranger/3rd party.
YOu seem to equate day care as an evil thing…it is not and many children benefit from it.
I still totally disagree that my tax funds should be given to a person so they can NOT WORK and stay at home and raise their kids!
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Rob's Wife:
**No, the non-custody parent doesn’t have to pay them to be SAH - but they usually do have to pay child support and they can be helpfull in making decisions for the child’s care - if the parent with custody should care to let them.
Yes they have to pay child support which in most cases is a joke
! Totally agree…both parents can make choices about the care the child(ren) gets…but that still means that usually both parties still have to work which in turn puts the kids in day care.
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Rob_s_Wife
Guest
YOu seem to equate day care as an evil thing…it is not and many children benefit from it.
I still totally disagree that my tax funds should be given to a person so they can NOT WORK and stay at home and raise their kids!
I have not said I think daycare is an evil thing. I’ve said that I believe a parent being the primary care-giver is best.
I think being a SAH parent is hard work, if it’s done right. I would rather my tax money fund them than some stranger at a daycare to watch their children.
Yes they have to pay child support which in most cases is a joke
! Totally agree…both parents can make choices about the care the child(ren) gets…but that still means that usually both parties still have to work which in turn puts the kids in day care.That doesn’t make them a single parent though. There is still another parent! I stand by my view that, if given the choice, I’d rather my tax money fund parenting than daycare.
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mumto5
Guest
I agree with having a parent there to come home to. I fondly remember coming home and knowing my mother would open the door and have tea and cookies ready for us. It just wasn’t the same when finances forced her to work. This experience is one reason I have chosen to be home with the children. I know the difference and am blessed with a real choice in the matter. We also homeschool our children.
That said, I think any family that has left the parish over this is rather small-minded. Childcare is a reality today. Even if we don’t like it, there are parents who MUST work to survive financially. Often I feel that where there is a will, there is a way and that some people who think they need to work don’t, they just want too much, but in spite of this, there are some families that really do have the need to work.
I wouldn’t use such a centre but I wouldn’t leave the parish over it! And I certainly wouldn’t shun any parents who used it. Is there more to the issue as for 30 families to leave over something like this seems a bit extreme.
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mumto5
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BTW - 30 families? Wow, we don’t have more than about five on any given Sunday.
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beckyann2597
Guest
Quality affordable childcare is in great demand and I for one am for the church renting out the land. I don’t really understand why this is such a big deal.
I am a SAHM. I SAH with my 1st child for 3 years, then had to put her in a preschool/childcare program a few days a week because I had to work so that my husband could finish school. He was going to college and working full time. He was overworked and so tired that he didn’t act like the same man I married. His job was awful, and he needed to leave because it was sucking the life from him. We tried to work our schedules so that one of us would always be with our daughter, but we needed childcare for a few in between times.
It worked out great! She was writing her name and reading at age 3. She adored the wonderful program. It was run through a local college and was a great program with young women taking classes to become teachers working there for credit. I know that not all childcare facilities are like that, but I will support a great program when I can.
My husband was able to finish up school in one year and I was able to stay home after that. Because he got his degree quicker, he was better able to provide for us, and now I am a SAHM to 2 with one more on the way.
The last two parishes I have belonged to made poor business decisions 20 years by selling their adjacent land instead of renting it out. Now both parishes need to grow to accommodate the overcrowded conditions, but are having to make due because they have nowhere to go. It would have been much better to rent out the adjacent land and collect revenue until they needed to use it.
I am a SAHM and I do consider a great privilege. Of course sacrifices are made and by no means are we living in luxury, but I also know how it is to HAVE to work, and I am glad there are places that I can leave my children in safety.
I am a SAHM. I SAH with my 1st child for 3 years, then had to put her in a preschool/childcare program a few days a week because I had to work so that my husband could finish school. He was going to college and working full time. He was overworked and so tired that he didn’t act like the same man I married. His job was awful, and he needed to leave because it was sucking the life from him. We tried to work our schedules so that one of us would always be with our daughter, but we needed childcare for a few in between times.
It worked out great! She was writing her name and reading at age 3. She adored the wonderful program. It was run through a local college and was a great program with young women taking classes to become teachers working there for credit. I know that not all childcare facilities are like that, but I will support a great program when I can.
My husband was able to finish up school in one year and I was able to stay home after that. Because he got his degree quicker, he was better able to provide for us, and now I am a SAHM to 2 with one more on the way.
The last two parishes I have belonged to made poor business decisions 20 years by selling their adjacent land instead of renting it out. Now both parishes need to grow to accommodate the overcrowded conditions, but are having to make due because they have nowhere to go. It would have been much better to rent out the adjacent land and collect revenue until they needed to use it.
I am a SAHM and I do consider a great privilege. Of course sacrifices are made and by no means are we living in luxury, but I also know how it is to HAVE to work, and I am glad there are places that I can leave my children in safety.
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Rob_s_Wife
Guest
I agree they probalby didn’t leave over this one issue. Sounds more like it was that last straw rather than based on this single event to me…
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LSK
Guest
But wait…in all fairness, we don’t know what it looks like, do we?
While I agree, some child care centers look forbidding so do some Catholic Schools.
I have always thought it sad that people are so divided on this issue. As someone pointed out, depending upon how a day care center or pre-school is run or operated it can be either a wonderful experience or a sadly, overpopulated horrible experience. I am going to be 50 years old on December 26 and attended Peter Pan Play School at the age of 3 for 3 hours every day while Mom played bridge with ‘the girls’ from the Parish. I still remember my really cool ‘scotty lunch pail’ and the wonderful games and songs all led by the little novitate for the Sisters of St. Joseph at Christ the King School. Today that would be called a Day Care Center.
My mom and “the girls” used it once a week to play bridge. Some of the moms who had to work part time used it as a place for their kids to be watched while they worked the two or three days a week to help supplement their husband’s income (yes, working moms inthe 1950’s!).
Yup - there were DAY CARE CENTERS in the 1950s…uh oh…
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OutinChgoburbs
Guest
My husband went to day care in the 50s and early 60s. it was called a nursery school, but he was dropped off when my m-i-l wanted to shop alone, or play cards, etc. later, when she worked as beautician, even though my husband was a bit old for nursery school, he was still dropped off from the local Catholic school to join my s-i-l, who was a small child at the time.
They had them in the Chicago area too, called them “play schools” just like yours. My mother couldn’t afford to use them because there was four, then five, then six of us. She utilized teenage girls as baby-sitters. She also worked second shift, while my father worked first, for awhile, so they could buy a home. Ah, for the days of Dad’s awful home cooking on a weekday evening!
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puzzleannie
Guest
What is a luxury is relative according to the values of vaiious families. A luxury is something you prize, but are unable to afford in terms of time, money, energy, health or other resources. Many of us prized the ability to stay home with our small children but were unable to afford it because of lack of those resources. There is more to the cost of a luxury than money. Usually to have that luxury – like being a SAHM – entails sacrifice in other areas, unless someone has an abundunce, so by your definition you gave up other “luxuries” in order to have the thing of most importance, a very worthy thing. that you were able to do so is commendable, but please cease passing judgement on those who are not able.
as to the particular use of parish resources described by OP, we have not got much information on how those resources are being used, for whose benefit, and the effect that use has upon the parish, to make a judgement. Evidently 30 families felt the effect on the parish was detrimental, but we have not been given enough information to evaluate their decision.
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manualman
Guest
Anybody notice how an issue that should be something which can reasonably disagreed about tends to become something that polarizes people into a frenzy? Just something about fallen human nature, I guess. I’m sure guilty sometimes.
Look, clearly there are those who simply cannot economically survive without using at least some level of child care while they work. I mean, come on! This is obvious!
Equally as clearly, there are a GREAT number of people who have rationalized their wants into needs and use daycare as a way to have two incomes so they can indulge. Look at today’s lifestyles. Exactly how many families in the history of earth have had: two cars, air conditioning, TV’s, computers, vacations, a bedroom for each person, closets bursting with clothes, cell phones, regular eating out, and so on. Clearly, we have some screwed up ideas about necessity.
Fact is that a lot of people value this STUFF more than they value ensuring that their own children have maximum time within the loving confines of the family. If it takes a few shock value words like “kennel” to get people to face the facts, maybe it isn’t so over the top.
All that said, I must admit it is relatively easy for me to say. I HAVE all those luxuries listed AND am fortunate enough that my wife wants to and can stay home and raise our kids. God bless those of you who must make greater sacrifices to do so.
Look, clearly there are those who simply cannot economically survive without using at least some level of child care while they work. I mean, come on! This is obvious!
Equally as clearly, there are a GREAT number of people who have rationalized their wants into needs and use daycare as a way to have two incomes so they can indulge. Look at today’s lifestyles. Exactly how many families in the history of earth have had: two cars, air conditioning, TV’s, computers, vacations, a bedroom for each person, closets bursting with clothes, cell phones, regular eating out, and so on. Clearly, we have some screwed up ideas about necessity.
Fact is that a lot of people value this STUFF more than they value ensuring that their own children have maximum time within the loving confines of the family. If it takes a few shock value words like “kennel” to get people to face the facts, maybe it isn’t so over the top.
All that said, I must admit it is relatively easy for me to say. I HAVE all those luxuries listed AND am fortunate enough that my wife wants to and can stay home and raise our kids. God bless those of you who must make greater sacrifices to do so.
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LSK
Guest
When the Moms in our neighborhood who had to work the late shift had their husbands cook there would be a ‘barbecue night’…it was hilarious…hotdogs and beans…unless it was Friday…then it was macaroni and cheese …Ah, for the days of Dad’s awful home cooking on a weekday evening!
. But you are correct! Back in the day, they were not called ‘day cay centers’, they were called ‘play school’ or ‘nursery school’ and some were run by the Catholic Schools or Parishes in the areas and some were private.A lot of the Moms on this board seem to forget that working mothers and two income families are not a new phenomenon, not a product of the feminist movement and not always because women or men want to dump their kids and drive luxury cars. My three aunts were working moms and raised their kids…and had husbands who worked…and kept their homes…sometimes life is hard, everyone and that is not new.
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OutinChgoburbs
Guest
We lived in an apartment on a major Chicago street, so cooking out did not happen in snowy weather. Too cold!!!When the Moms in our neighborhood who had to work the late shift had their husbands cook there would be a ‘barbecue night’…it was hilarious…hotdogs and beans…unless it was Friday…then it was macaroni and cheese …
But Dad cooked like his mama, and this grandma was NOT a good cook. If we made to Friday, we got to go to a chain hamburger place, Henry’s, and get a burger, or if we were the age of reason or beyond, fries and a shake or a fishwich.
My mother worked at the time because we had five kids, living in an apartment above a series of stores on a busy street in Chicago. She wanted a house, a two-flat, on a side street. It took her 14 years to get that far.
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otm
Guest
Then I would assume you would associate dog kennels with any grade school that wishes to proect the children from running into the traffic and being killed?
Chain link fences are not limited to day care centers.
You might want to climb down off the snob stand and let the other people make a choice too. Seems to me that the Church just recently canonized a woman doctor; I don’t recall that she gave up her medical practice even though she had children.
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