Some Bishops Questioning Clerical Culture

[Via_Dolorosa]

“In statements, speeches, interviews and at least one pastoral letter, bishops in various parts of the world have begun raising provocative questions about whether something intrinsic to the Roman Catholic church – perhaps its clerical culture, its manner of governance, its exercise of authority, or a combination of such elements – has either caused or abetted the priest sex abuse tragedy.”
ncronline.org/news/accountability/some-bishops-questioning-clerical-culture

 

[Lutheranteach]

Caused. I don’t think so. Abetted. Most likely.

 

[manualman]

I think it is a far less peculiarly “catholic” phenomenon than the author would like to believe. More like a fallen human nature problem, if you ask me.

If you take ANY tightly knit organization where the members are all committed to a common goal and introduce a scandal where a member commits an act in opposition to the stated goals of the group, the very first instinct of all involved is to take action to protect the organization.

You see it in corporations. You see it in athletic organizations. You see it in school districts. You see it in politics. Humans are prone to protecting those they see as “us” against “them” instead of calmly reasoning out the principles and deciding on that basis. To suggest that this tendency is exclusive to some “clerical” characteristic of catholicism merely illustrates the critic’s ignorance of human nature.

 

[Elizabeth502]

manualman, I very much agree with your important and excellent point…except for this one critical difference:

The Church is, yes, a corporation, but it is much more than that, and was exhorted not to mirror its secular surroundings (and their ethos) by Jesus himself. Jesus was very specific about demanding of his followers (which would obviously include the leaders of his movement – i.e., eventually the priestly portion – and not just “lay” or “in the community” leaders) to behave with a higher and more sacred orientation than just base human nature.

 

[manualman]

Oh believe me, I am NOT trying to say that nobody should be apalled by the molestations or the cover-ups.

I just object to the assertion that this sort of thing can be blamed on the “clerical culture” of the priesthood an hierarchy. The blame is much deeper than that and penetrates all the way to the usual cause: humanity’s fallen nature itself.

 

[manygift1spirit]

I just object to the assertion that this sort of thing can be blamed on the “clerical culture” of the priesthood and hierarchy.

As well we should. I think a more informative exercise would be rather to examine the culture of the source, as it often amounts to one of disrespect for the hierarchy and desire to believe things contrary to the deposit of Faith promulgated by that hierarchy.

 

[Via_Dolorosa]

As well we should. I think a more informative exercise would be rather to examine the culture of the source, as it often amounts to one of disrespect for the hierarchy and desire to believe things contrary to the deposit of Faith promulgated by that hierarchy.

Would yu mind clarifying this statement. I don’t quite understand what you mean.

 

[Tsuwano]

“In statements, speeches, interviews and at least one pastoral letter, bishops in various parts of the world have begun raising provocative questions about whether something intrinsic to the Roman Catholic church – perhaps its clerical culture, its manner of governance, its exercise of authority, or a combination of such elements – has either caused or abetted the priest sex abuse tragedy.”
ncronline.org/news/accountability/some-bishops-questioning-clerical-culture

I think this is a very good article. I also think the bishops are wise and humble to raise these questions about whether a “clerical culture” played a role in the sexual abuse scandal in the Church. I tend to think there are many elements of “clerical culture” which allowed the scandal to take place and which led to many church authorities ignoring the suffering of the abused for much too long. As painful as it may be, an examination of conscience is necessary among those who hold authority in the Church. If elements of “clerical culture” did have a part in creating these scandals, then these elements should be changed so future scandals and suffering can be avoided. The fact that these bishops are undergoing this examination of conscience gives me great hope for the Church and reminds me that the Holy Spirit will never abandon her.

 

[Via_Dolorosa]

I think this is a very good article. I also think the bishops are wise and humble to raise these questions about whether a “clerical culture” played a role in the sexual abuse scandal in the Church. I tend to think there are many elements of “clerical culture” which allowed the scandal to take place and which led to many church authorities ignoring the suffering of the abused for much too long. As painful as it may be, an examination of conscience is necessary among those who hold authority in the Church. If elements of “clerical culture” did have a part in creating these scandals, then these elements should be changed so future scandals and suffering can be avoided. The fact that these bishops are undergoing this examination of conscience gives me great hope for the Church and reminds me that the Holy Spirit will never abandon her.

I agree with you. I got the same thing after reading the article. It’s good news as far as I am concerned.

 

[St_Francis]

“In statements, speeches, interviews and at least one pastoral letter, bishops in various parts of the world have begun raising provocative questions about whether something intrinsic to the Roman Catholic church – perhaps its clerical culture, its manner of governance, its exercise of authority, or a combination of such elements – has either caused or abetted the priest sex abuse tragedy.”
ncronline.org/news/accountability/some-bishops-questioning-clerical-culture

Well, I don’t think that’s what he’s saying, and I don’t think that that can possibly be the case. The end of the Church is to lead people to Christ, and the errors that have been made are *antithetical *to the Church in every respect.

The reality is that the way those problems were handled at the time was pretty much the way they were handled outside the Church as well. People did not want to turn pedophiles in to the police because then children would have to testify and there were several problems with that (girls publically known to have lost their virginity, having to return to the event rather than to move on, etc.) I’m not saying that *anyone *was handling it correctly, merely that that was not so unacceptable at the time.

Additionally during those years, it was thought that these people could be “cured” by science. There was a lot of stuff happening that contributed, and one can certainly make an argument that if the members of the hierarchy who were involved had stuck to Catholic teaching and the Church’s own discipline of the time, that this would have been dealt with in a more appropriate manner.

So I would argue that it was not at all something intrinsic to the Church but the entry of outside influences which created the problem.

 

[Tsuwano]

Well, I don’t think that’s what he’s saying, and I don’t think that that can possibly be the case. The end of the Church is to lead people to Christ, and the errors that have been made are *antithetical *to the Church in every respect.

The reality is that the way those problems were handled at the time was pretty much the way they were handled outside the Church as well. People did not want to turn pedophiles in to the police because then children would have to testify and there were several problems with that (girls publically known to have lost their virginity, having to return to the event rather than to move on, etc.) I’m not saying that *anyone *was handling it correctly, merely that that was not so unacceptable at the time.

Additionally during those years, it was thought that these people could be “cured” by science. There was a lot of stuff happening that contributed, and one can certainly make an argument that if the members of the hierarchy who were involved had stuck to Catholic teaching and the Church’s own discipline of the time, that this would have been dealt with in a more appropriate manner.

So I would argue that it was not at all something intrinsic to the Church but the entry of outside influences which created the problem.

I would agree that many of the causes of the sex abuse scandal in the Church are not intrinsic to the Church and are the result of outside influences entering into the Church, but that is precisely the nerve that is being touched. Many of these elements of “clerical culture” which the bishops are discussing are also not intrinsic to the Church and it is a mistake to think that they are. In this article for example, Bishop Coleridge of Canberra and Goulburn in Australia mentions several elements of “clerical culture” which are not intrinsic to the Church and which can be addressed. He mentions “Clericalism understood as a hierarchy of power, not service.” He also mentions “Triumphalism in the Catholic church, a kind of institutional pride.” He lists a “Culture of discretion that turned dark when it was used to conceal crime and to protect the reputation of the church or the image of the priesthood” at the expense of young victims and trusting families. I believe there is much to be valued in the culture that arises among clerics who are trained together and serve together in the vineyard of the Lord, but as with any group of elite professionals, negative elements involving pride, ignorance or entitlement can also enter into that culture. The bishops should be mindful of this, especially when these elements lead to scandals as grave as that which has shaken the Church in recent years, and should take steps to purge that culture for the benefit of the whole Church.

 

[St_Francis]

I would agree that many of the causes of the sex abuse scandal in the Church are not intrinsic to the Church and are the result of outside influences entering into the Church, but that is precisely the nerve that is being touched. Many of these elements of “clerical culture” which the bishops are discussing are also not intrinsic to the Church and it is a mistake to think that they are. In this article for example, Bishop Coleridge of Canberra and Goulburn in Australia mentions several elements of “clerical culture” which are not intrinsic to the Church and which can be addressed. He mentions “Clericalism understood as a hierarchy of power, not service.” He also mentions “Triumphalism in the Catholic church, a kind of institutional pride.” He lists a “Culture of discretion that turned dark when it was used to conceal crime and to protect the reputation of the church or the image of the priesthood” at the expense of young victims and trusting families. I believe there is much to be valued in the culture that arises among clerics who are trained together and serve together in the vineyard of the Lord, but as with any group of elite professionals, negative elements involving pride, ignorance or entitlement can also enter into that culture. The bishops should be mindful of this, especially when these elements lead to scandals as grave as that which has shaken the Church in recent years, and should take steps to purge that culture for the benefit of the whole Church.

I see what you are saying; I didn’t understand the term “clerical culture” as they were using it. It just seemed so awful to attribute all this to God’s priesthood, but they don’t really mean the priesthood, just the men who happened to be priests. Thanks for explaining that.