(some) Catholics don't believe in the Eucharist?

[otjm]

I believe the statistic is that some 70% of Catholics do not believe in the Real Presence or in transubstantiation. This is mostly due to poor catechesis.

I understand that you are referencing what you have heard, and for that I do not fault you. However, perhaps this posting has been of some service that we should all take care when we reference studies and statistics taken from them.

I think I have seen either the study which underlies your comment; or certainly I have seen critiques of it. I am not sure that the study said what you reported ( and I understand you were referencing what you heard, not the study itself). There is a difference between not believing in something, and believing in something that you cannot explain.

It is God’s problem, not ours, when someone who has been poorly catechized, or simply over time has forgotten the specifics of what they were catechized about,incorrectly states part of the faith. That is not to say that if we have a correct understanding, that we have no duty to help others who may be struggling.

But it is easy to presume a lack of faith on the part of others when it is not faith, but a correct articulation of that faith which is lacking.

And it behooves all of us to be careful what we say about the 70% - or the 90%, or the 55% - or whatever. They don’t believe is a rather strong statement; perhaps it would be better to say that they don’t seem to understand correctly.

 

[marywarfield]

Did they say spiritually, or sacramentally? It may be that the terms were confused, either in hearing, or in the explanation. As noted above in the thread, it is incorrect to say that we receive Christ physically; our belief is that He is present, body, blood, soul and divinity sacramentally, under the accidents of bread and wine. The Eucharistic miracle of Lanciano excepted.

Not everyone is a theologian; and people of strong faith and good intentions can say things incorrectly and yet still believe.

They just don’t make the best catechists.

Idk. Your last two statements are my problem as well.
A person was trying to ask if the Church had changed
Pope Paul Vl’s teaching that Christ was “corporeally”
present. And the answer was we receive Him only
spiritually.
So I don’t know if they meant we receive Him as food for
our souls or that He is only spiritually present or what.
Very confusing.

 

[McCartney]

I posted this on another thread.

Baptist minister turns Catholic priest

youtube.com/watch?v=OPpzA7OGDFk

 

[otjm]

Idk. Your last two statements are my problem as well.
A person was trying to ask if the Church had changed
Pope Paul Vl’s teaching that Christ was “corporeally”
present. And the answer was we receive Him only
spiritually.
So I don’t know if they meant we receive Him as food for
our souls or that He is only spiritually present or what.
Very confusing.

I understand. Not trying to be difficult, but rather not to judge the prior statements.

We receive Christ body, blood, soul and divinity when we receive either the host or the cup - or both. We receive under what, in philosophical terms, are the accidents of bread and wine; that is, it looks like bread; it tastes like bread, it smells like bread, but the substance is Christ. Christ is present sacramentally, truly present, but not physically present.

If you would like some not lengthy explanation, Google “substance and accidents”.

And no, the Church had not changed Paul VI’s teaching.

Remember that we receive the Risen Christ; we refer to his risen body, which was the same but not the same. Thomas could stick his hand into the side wound of Christ; but Christ could come and go without going through doors; he appeared here and then there, and possibly at the same time (road to Emmaus); could eat a meal with those two disciples and then disappear from their presence; could be seen but not identified and then identified (before a fire on the seashore). His body was the same and yet not the same; we refer to it as glorified. And no one has adequately expressed what that means, although we have the apostles experience of him glorified.

And so we receive him in the Eucharist. Not spiritually, but sacramentally, are really. Read John 6. It is challenging. Toward the end of the discourse, Christ uses a word in Greek that translates closer to chew, or gnaw, when he says we must eat his flesh; it is more graphic in Greek than in English.

 

[Incomplete]

Idk. Your last two statements are my problem as well.
A person was trying to ask if the Church had changed
Pope Paul Vl’s teaching that Christ was “corporeally”
present. And the answer was we receive Him only
spiritually.
So I don’t know if they meant we receive Him as food for
our souls or that He is only spiritually present or what.
Very confusing.

He is literally present, but not in physical bodily form…in other words, if you were to place the consecrated bread and wine under a microscope, it would look like bread and wine, though it would now be completely Christ, body, blood, soul, and divinity.

Maybe this will help, from the USCCB:

Are the consecrated bread and wine “merely symbols”?

In everyday language, we call a “symbol” something that points beyond itself to something else, often to several other realities at once. The transformed bread and wine that are the Body and Blood of Christ are not merely symbols because they truly are the Body and Blood of Christ. As St. John Damascene wrote: “The bread and wine are not a foreshadowing of the body and blood of Christ—By no means!—but the actual deified body of the Lord, because the Lord Himself said: ‘This is my body’; not ‘a foreshadowing of my body’ but ‘my body,’ and not ‘a foreshadowing of my blood’ but ‘my blood’” ( The Orthodox Faith, IV [PG 94, 1148-49]). At the same time, however, it is important to recognize that the Body and Blood of Christ come to us in the Eucharist in a sacramental form. In other words, Christ is present under the appearances of bread and wine, not in his own proper form.

You can find that here: usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/the-mass/frequently-asked-questions/the-real-presence-of-jesus-christ-in-the-sacrament-of-the-eucharist-basic-questions-and-answers.cfm

 

[aeposada89]

You did a wonderful job witnessing. Well done.

One important point, though. Jesus is not physically present in the Eucharist. His Presence is a sacramental one.

The Sacramental Presence include the Physical Presence.

This is why we say we believe that the “Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ” are Really Present in the Eucharist.

In that grouping, “Body and Blood” are included. Body and Blood are physical realities.

This, in fact, makes the Eucharistic Miracle celebrated at every Liturgy even more amazing, as it shows us, via Incarnational Theology, what both St. Athanasius the Great, and St. John Damscene, great Fathers of the Church, have passed down to us–that Christ, by taking on matter in the Incarnation, has Sanctified matter, and made it Holy, in a special way.

Thus, His Presence is Sacramental, yes–but that Sacramental Presence is not exclusive,* but rather, inclusive, of all of these Elements–“Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity.”

Again, this (like the other Sacraments) makes matter Holy, in a certain way, and makes this Holy Matter that appears to us as “only Signs,” not “only Signs,” but “Efficacious Signs”–that is, Signs that actually do what They Signify.

e.g., Baptism does not only wash the body–it washes the Spirit;

Confession does not merely “symbolically” hand over sin for a promise of future forgiveness, as did the atonement practices of the Ancient Israelites (which, rather, prefigured the True Atonement, only made possible by Christ). But rather, sin is actually handed over to Christ (via His Priest) to heal with His Divine Mercy;

And so on.*

 

[otjm]

The Sacramental Presence include the Physical Presence.

This is why we say we believe that the “Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ” are Really Present in the Eucharist.

In that grouping, “Body and Blood” are included. Body and Blood are physical realities.

This, in fact, makes the Eucharistic Miracle celebrated at every Liturgy even more amazing, as it shows us, via Incarnational Theology, what both St. Athanasius the Great, and St. John Damscene, great Fathers of the Church, have passed down to us–that Christ, by taking on matter in the Incarnation, has Sanctified matter, and made it Holy, in a special way.

Thus, His Presence is Sacramental, yes–but that Sacramental Presence is not exclusive,** but rather, inclusive, of all of these Elements–“Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity.”

Again, this (like the other Sacraments) makes matter Holy, in a certain way, and makes this Holy Matter that appears to us as “only Signs,” not “only Signs,” but “Efficacious Signs”–that is, Signs that actually do what They Signify.

e.g., Baptism does not only wash the body–it washes the Spirit;

Confession does not merely “symbolically” hand over sin for a promise of future forgiveness, as did the atonement practices of the Ancient Israelites (which, rather, prefigured the True Atonement, only made possible by Christ). But rather, sin is actually handed over to Christ (via His Priest) to heal with His Divine Mercy;

And so on.A) this thread is over two years old; B) Christ is not physically present. He is sacramentally present, body blood, soul and divinity under the physical appearances of bread and wine.

 

[JimG]

The only reason for avoiding the term “physical” with respect to the real presence is that “physical” by definition refers to the appearances of a thing, and the appearances of bread and wine remain. Those appearances of bread and wine, however, do not inhere in anything. They do not inhere in the bread and wine because they are gone, replaced by Jesus Christ. They do not inhere in Jesus, because he has his own proper appearances. Christ is wholly present, yes–corporeally, not just spiritually, his entire body, with his blood, soul and divinity. It is not a purely spiritual presence.

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

…

Knowing this, why are there not post catechism quizzes? Like refresher courses? …

They get closed down when mob rule sets in.