"Some Christians see little more in Mary than..."

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“Some Christians see little more in Mary than a creature infinitely pure and exquisite, the tenderest and gentlest Woman that ever existed. Therein, they run the risk of having for her only a sentimental devotion, or - if they are of a forceful character - of feeling but little attraction towards her. They have never realised that this Virgin so tender, this Mother so gentle is, as well, the Woman above all the most indomitable, and that never was there man so full of character as this Woman.” (Neubert: Marie dans le Dogme)
Dear Brothers and Sisters,

The above quote is taken from Fr. Neubert (for more on this holy priest, called “Marian Apostle of Modern Times” see HERE) I came upon his words as quoted in the Legion of Mary Handbook, p.113.

His words are well-worth pondering, so I invite you to ponder prayerfully with me, asking the Holy Spirit to shed more light on all of us that we may know and love our Mother more. In knowing and loving her, may we learn also from the Holy Spirit how to live the Truth we hear from Him as Mary lived on this earth.
 
I see our Holy Mother as my true Mother since Jesus gave her to us as He died on the cross. I see her as one without sin, pure and my devotion to her is not one of worship as we do God but, as one above all Mothers and a Saint. And one that we should to pray to since the Rosary is devoted to her. I may be repetitious in writing this, and please excuse me, but I do know that Soldiers pray to her when they are dying since her intervention is truly remarkable and so is her Mercy. The Hail Holy Queen prayer denotes this very well…

Love, Hugs and Prayers,
Sheila
 
In the Bible Belt most folks credit Mary with being just another sinner who incubated Jesus for 9 months.
 
I see our Holy Mother as my true Mother since Jesus gave her to us as He died on the cross. I see her as one without sin, pure and my devotion to her is not one of worship as we do God but, as one above all Mothers and a Saint. And one that we should to pray to since the Rosary is devoted to her. I may be repetitious in writing this, and please excuse me, but I do know that Soldiers pray to her when they are dying since her intervention is truly remarkable and so is her Mercy. The Hail Holy Queen prayer denotes this very well…

Love, Hugs and Prayers,
Sheila
Dear Shelia,

Thanks for your reply and for your loving devotion to Mary. You need no excuse as her daughter to praise and honor her. To other loving daughters and sons, your words are “music” to our ears! 🙂
 
Ahem. Aren’t we forgetting someone who had infinitely more character? cough Jesus cough
Dear Fractal Fire and SyroMalankara,

Fr. Neubert is speaking of “man” as mankind or humankind, which includes all of the human race – men and women who are only human persons. I wonder if this translation from the original French to English was a poor translation. Obviously, Father is not “forgetting” the God-Man, Jesus Christ, Who is the Divine Person who assumed our human nature. Father Neubert’s most famous book is entitled “My Ideal, Jesus, Son of Mary”.
 
In the Bible Belt most folks credit Mary with being just another sinner who incubated Jesus for 9 months.
Dear kkollwitz,

Yes, it is true that many non-Catholics in the South have been raised with many misconceptions about Mary and what Catholics really believe about her. It is difficult for me to understand sometimes why their love for the Bible does not incline them to see God’s Love for Mary and the great honor He has given her in being the Mother of His Incarnate Word.

Let us pray for all those who misunderstand and undervalue our beautiful, and loving Mother Mary. Let us do all we can to be as Mary was on this earth, the perfect follower of Jesus, who kept all He said and did in her heart, and lived the Truth she heard, by the power of His Holy Spirit. Thanks for your reply.
 
Dear Fractal Fire and SyroMalankara,

Fr. Neubert is speaking of “man” as mankind or humankind, which includes all of the human race – men and women who are only human persons. I wonder if this translation from the original French to English was a poor translation. Obviously, Father is not “forgetting” the God-Man, Jesus Christ, Who is the Divine Person who assumed our human nature. Father Neubert’s most famous book is entitled “My Ideal, Jesus, Son of Mary”.
I thought it was an error of some sort (or at least an unintended case of unfortunate word choice). It just struck me as amusing as written, to be honest, which is why I commented.
 
In the Bible Belt most folks credit Mary with being just another sinner who incubated Jesus for 9 months.
Yes, some do take the view of Mary as a mere incubator.

I don’t get it. These are the same folks who go on and on the nobility of motherhood and then turn around and call Mary a mere incubator. Wonder if they will say the same thing in front of their wives and the mothers of their children.
 
Yes, some do take the view of Mary as a mere incubator.

I don’t get it. These are the same folks who go on and on the nobility of motherhood and then turn around and call Mary a mere incubator. Wonder if they will say the same thing in front of their wives and the mothers of their children.
Dear Sarcelle,

It is a mystery of grace, it seems to me; i.e. either persons are refusing the grace God offers them to hear the Truth in Scripture, or they are unwilling to simply let go of some prejudices against Mary taught to them. Only God knows. Some seem to be so “unreasonable” in their interpretation of Scripture which testifies to the beauty of God’s choice of Mary and the graces given to her. There is a “disconnect” in their concept of motherhood and Mary, as you point out, but there is some mystery in why it continues.

I’ve read some opinions on why some are so “afraid” to honor Mary, and one reason is that it might bring them too close to accepting the Catholic Church. Mary is the icon of the Church. That may be a true cause, I’m not sure, but it is an interesting opinion.

We can pray and when any opportunity arises to share the Truth revealed in Scripture and taught by the Catholic Church for centuries, let us speak the truth lovingly to all.
 
"it might bring them too close to accepting the Catholic Church.’

I listen to a Fundie radio station about 20 hours a week, it’s a mix of preaching, music and news. The preachers IMO go out of their way to remind the listener that Mary is a sinner who died and whose body is rotting away like any other sinner’s body, etc, etc. God picked her, Jesus needed a momma, he rebuked her twice…
 
Dear kkollwitz,

Since you teach 6th graders, (as I have) you know how much patience is needed. “Love is patient…” (1 Cor 13) and how much we depend on the Holy Spirit to teach us what is true love and wisdom. We pray for the children we teach and those who may be the most difficult are perhaps the ones we pray for most.

Let us pray for those who have such terrible misconceptions of Mary, The pierced Hearts of Jesus and Mary must grieve over them as well as those Catholics who are neglecting the graces of their Baptism. If we find any non Catholic who will listen, let us do whatever we can by word and example to show them the Truth revealed in the Scripture. Mary was chosen by God to be Mother of God and Jesus, Incarnate Son gave her to all of us in the person of John from His Cross. Let us, by God’s Grace, help also in re-evangelizing some Catholics

Come Holy Spirit kindle in us the Fire of Your Love.
Mary, Mother of the Church, pray for us.
Jesus we trust in You!
 
Lest anyone think that I agree with the “preachers who go out of their way to remind the listener that Mary is a sinner who died and whose body is rotting away like any other sinner’s body, etc, etc. God picked her, Jesus needed a momma, he rebuked her twice,” I do not agree with them, even though I have listed some of their gripes.

For an elaboration on my view on “rebuking” Mary go here:

platytera.blogspot.com/2009/05/mary-come-into-my-office-please_19.html
 
Maria, yes re 6th grade. Into every year is woven ways to counterevangelize folks who don’t agree with Catholic Church.
 
Our Blessed Lady is unique in that she alone was worthy of creation. She was created without original sin but from the moment of her conception she did exactly what God would want an individual to do. She grew every moment even in the womb to know love and serve God perfectly. She lived a life as perfect in a finite way as God is perfect in an infinite way.

She not only did not commit a mortal sin but she did not even commit a venial sin. This was by her own choices. She swam in grace like a fish in water as nature itself and God intended for a human being to be.

God is Heaven to us but to God being with His Blessed Mother is His Heaven.

For those who do not recognize how much like Jesus Our Blessed Mother was they must just look at nature itself. Was he not taken from her flesh alone. Was it not her egg that was fertilized by the Holy Spirit. Was it not her blood that flowed through her child in her womb who was God. She feed God. Did God not grow from His mothers food. Did she not give birth to him, wash him, feed him from her own milk, hold and worship and adore her son and her God. Did she not kiss and embrace her God in her arms.

Did she not spend 30 years living and hearing the perfect wisdom of His mind. Our Blessed Mother knows loves and serves God better then all the rest of us put together.

He tried not to brag about her too much but he spoke about the great treasure which was buried in the earth and someone sold all they have to buy the field to possess the treasure. He was talking about the Blessed Trinity and Our Blessed Mother and Our Holy Mother the Church. God sold everything he had by becoming a man. A piece of the earth.

Anyway I hold the conviction that Our Blessed Mother did not require salvation and was the only human who was worthy of creation which is one element that is behind creation as well as the love of creation. For God is infinitely just and justice would convince me that someone worthy of creation should be created.
 
Where is all of this stuff in scripture? All I can see is Mary as a humble Jewish girl who gracious accepted the plan of God to bring forth the Son of God, the Messiah, through her. I can’t even begin to imagine Mary desiring all the adoration and focus on herself that goes on today, I think she’d probably tell us to focus on her Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Mary; a humble Jewish girl who was chosen by God to carry and give birth to the incarnate Son of God, who because of which is to be called “blessed” for all generations. I see that in scripture. All the rest? Mediatrix of all graces, queen of heaven, co-redemptrix, immaculately conceived, etc, I can’t for the life of me find anywhere…
 
Where is all of this stuff in scripture? All I can see is Mary as a humble Jewish girl who gracious accepted the plan of God to bring forth the Son of God, the Messiah, through her. I can’t even begin to imagine Mary desiring all the adoration and focus on herself that goes on today, I think she’d probably tell us to focus on her Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Mary; a humble Jewish girl who was chosen by God to carry and give birth to the incarnate Son of God, who because of which is to be called “blessed” for all generations. I see that in scripture. All the rest? Mediatrix of all graces, queen of heaven, co-redemptrix, immaculately conceived, etc, I can’t for the life of me find anywhere…
Dear ALoveDivine,

The Gospel of Luke gives us a beautiful “picture” of our humble Mother Mary in the words of His Gospel, although God’s Word in Scripture also gives us “hints” in the Old Testament as well, beginning with Genesis:
I will put enmity between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
They will strike at your head,
while you strike at their heel. Gen 3: 15
In that Annunciation scene, the Greek words, (in which the Gospel of Luke was originally written) give us help in understanding the Church’s dogma of the Immaculate Conception. The Angel Gabriel greets her as one “having been transformed by grace unto holiness” in anticipation of her motherhood of the Son of God. The title “Queen of Heaven” is in reference to the “woman” in Revelation 12: 1-18, The word “woman” is significant in Scripture. Mary does tell the servants to do whatever Jesus tells them, yet Jesus dying on the cross tells us to “Behold your Mother”. Mary is very important to Jesus and for us.

The Old Testament holy women Hannah in the Book of Samuel (in whose prayer we hear words similar to Mary’s Magnificat) and Deborah in the book of Judges (in whose fidelity as prophetess and willingness to go into battle with Barak for her people resembles Mary’s “Yes” and her willingness to give herself with Jesus in the battle against satan) are two examples of God’s work in salvation history given to us in Scripture, pointing toward Mary’s unique role in His Divine Plan. In Mary we begin to see His plan for all humanity. She is both Mother and Model of the Church.

The Early Fathers and Doctors of the Church and more recently St. John Paul II have used the expression Mediatrix of all Graces. Other earlier saints such as St. Louis de Montfort also have written extensively on the importance of Mary in God’s plan, especially in hisTrue Devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary. Both De Montfort and JPII are steeped in Scripture, as are the writings of the earlier Fathers and Doctors of the Church. St. Louis gives a beautiful exegesis of the story of Rebecca and Jacob, as an example of Mary’s role in the life of the faithful.

A good defense of Mary as Mediatrix is given in the Catechsim of the Catholic Church, but before I give the quote from the Catechism, I see a clear indication of God’s desire for Mary to be Mediatrix in the Gospel of John, chapter 2, when at the Wedding of Cana, Mary goes to Jesus on behalf of the couple who have no more wine. His response is both question and prophecy for Mary’s role at Calvary: " Woman, what is this to you and to Me? My hour has not yet come." Jesus knows the hour will come and Mary will be there at the foot of His Cross in that terrible battle and victory over death and sin. Mary will be the fulfillment of that woman in Genesis as her Son gives Himself and she gives her “Yes” again on Calvary.

There are three quotes from the Catechism which are important, #618, 1544 and 970. I hope you have a Catechism so that you can read and ponder these paragraphs and the scriptural footnotes included:
618 The cross is the unique sacrifice of Christ, the “one mediator between God and men”. But because in his incarnate divine person he has in some way united himself to every man, “the possibility of being made partners, in a way known to God, in the paschal mystery” is offered to all men.He calls his disciples to “take up [their] cross and follow (him)”, for “Christ also suffered for (us), leaving (us) an example so that (we) should follow in his steps.” In fact Jesus desires to associate with his redeeming sacrifice those who were to be its first beneficiaries. This is achieved supremely in the case of his mother, who was associated more intimately than any other person in the mystery of his redemptive suffering. Apart from the cross there is no other ladder by which we may get to heaven
I encourage you to buy and use a Catechism of the Catholic Church if you do not already have one. There is an excellent Glossary and Index and Scripture is the most referenced and primary source for all teachings. I hope this helps. Mary our Mother has been unfortunately misunderstood in our present culture, with sad consequences. As I have mentioned before in other threads. I agree with St. John Paul II who said in 1982, that the crisis of faith we see in so many persons was preceded by a decline in devotion to the Blessed Mother – that the more one moves away from the Mother, the sooner one moves away from the Son. I hope you will be blessed by reading more about Mary in the Catechism. It can help you to delve even more deeply into God’s Holy Word and understanding His Great Love for Mary.
 
Maria…here is a summary of the last official Church action on this topic… The idea of Mary as Mediatrix, Coredemtrix and advocate is still hotly debated in the Church. Let alone ‘all graces’. We should not speak as though this is a teaching of the Church that the faithful must believe…in fact, we should carefully avoid it as directed by Lumen Gentium chapter 8. It is unfortunate that so many try to speak for the Church on this subject and act as though it is already a teaching of the Church

Declaration of the Theological Commission of the Pontifical International Marian Academy

Request for the definition of the dogma of Mary as Mediatrix, Coredemptrix and Advocate

The twelfth International Mariological Congress, held at Częstochowa (Poland) in August 1996, was asked by the Holy See to study the possibility and the opportuneness of a definition of the Marian titles of Mediatrix, Coredemptrix and Advocate, as is being requested of the Holy See by certain circles. A commission was established, composed of fifteen theologians chosen for their specific preparation in this area, so that together they could discuss and analyze the question through mature reflection. In addition to their theological competence, care was also taken to ensure the greatest possible geographical diversity among the members, so that any possible consensus would become especially significant. It was also sought to enrich the study group by adding, as external members, some non-Catholic theologians who were present at the Congress. The commission arrived at a twofold conclusion.
  1. The titles, as proposed, are ambiguous, as they can be understood in very different ways. Furthermore, the theological direction taken by the Second Vatican Council, which did not wish to define any of these titles, should not be abandoned. The Second Vatican Council did not use the title “Coredemptrix”, and uses “Mediatrix” and “Advocate” in a very moderate way (cf. Lumen Gentium, 62). In fact, from the time of Pope Pius XII, the term “Coredemptrix” has not been used by the papal Magisterium in its significant documents. There is evidence that Pope Pius XII himself intentionally avoided using it. With respect to the title “Mediatrix,” the history of the question should not be forgotten: in the first decades of this century the Holy See entrusted the study of the possibility of its definition to three different commissions, the result of which was that the Holy See decided to set the question aside.
  2. Even if the titles were assigned a content which could be accepted as belonging to the deposit of the faith, the definition of these titles, however, in the present situation would be lacking in theological clarity, as such titles and the doctrines inherent in them still require further study in a renewed Trinitarian, ecclesiological and anthropological perspective. Finally, the theologians, especially the non-Catholics, were sensitive to the ecumenical difficulties which would be involved in such a definition.
The commission included Father Pavao Melada, O.F.M. and Father Stefano Cecchin, O.F.M., the President and Secretary respectively of the Pontifical International Marian Academy, Father Cándido Pozo, S.J. (Spain), Father Ignacio M. Calabuig, O.S.M. (Marianum - Rome), Father Jesús Castellano Cervera, O.C.D (Teresianum - Rome), Father Franz Courth, S.A.C. (Germany), Father Stefano De Fiores, S.M.M. (Italy), Father Miguel Angel Delgado, O.S.M. (Mexico), Father Manuel Felicio da Rocha (Portugal), Father Georges Gharib (Melkite - Syria), Father Réné Laurentin (France), Father Jan Pach, O.S.P.P.E. (Poland), Father Adalbert Rebic (Croatia), Father Jean Rivain (France), Father Johann Roten, S.M. (USA), Father Ermanno Toniolo, O.S.M. (Italy), Mons. Teofil Siudy (Poland), Father Anton Ziegenaus (Germany), Canon Roger Greenacre (Anglican - England), Dr. Hans Christoph Schmidt - Lauber (Lutheran - Austria), Father Ghennadios Limouris (Orthodox - Constantinople), Father Jean Kawak (Orthodox - Syria), Prof. Constantin Charalampidis (Orthodox - Greece).

Source: L’Osservatore Romano (6/4/1997)
 
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