Some funny videos

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SemperFidelis said:
Fantastic! The return of Triumphalism is a sweet sight indeed!

Thank you Pope Benedict XVI!

To those who are offended: the truth hurts I guess…
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That it does. Oh well, can’t please everyone.

Nice post, OP.
 
Sure said:
I think what Elisha finds troubling is the insinuation (confirmed by several posters here) that the form of the Mass is somehow the cause of the abuse. Such assertions are stupid, unfounded and, to many, offensive. After all, I think many traditionalists here would be upset (and rightly so) if someone proposed that the training of priests in the Traditional Latin Mass led to the sexual abuse of children. Could we just excuse that as “funny”?
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But that is impossible. Only dissent and rebellion leads to sexual abuse.
If you find someone who is traditionally faithful to the Church you would find someone who seeks to uphold sexual purity and respect.
Now when you deviate from that to a more liberal perspective which does not adhere to faithfulness you start to see a desire to allow for sexual expression to deviance.
So every person who committed abuse would not be upholding the traditional Catholic faith even though they might have lived at a time when widespread dissent was only starting.

You don’t blame laws for the lawbreakers, you don’t blame marriage for the divorces. You blame dissent from faithfulness, you don’t blame the ideal.

The form of the Mass can indeed be part of the cause of the abuse if it is designed in the sort of way that fosters innovation. This is the arguement that Traditionalists bring up, which should be answered with a thoughtful answer and not just a denial. A reasoned response would be appropriate.

The videos are funny, as there has been no reasoned response from those who prefer a free form Mass. I find the videos funny as I live in California and seeing abuse is common, faithful Masses are uncommon and a cause for joy.

God Bless
Scylla

(I might go to my first full TLM on Ash Wednesday, this will be better than the liturgy of the word offered at my parish)
 
GandalfTheWhite said:
Eilish Maura, I see you don’t like these videos. Let me ask you, do you condone the horrible atrocities and liturgical abuses which we find at the beginning of the videos? Would you not rather have it replaced with the mass of all ages (i.e. the Traditional Latin Mass)?
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The only proper replacement would be elimination of the abuse not playing games re which missal to use.
 
scylla said:
But that is impossible. Only dissent and rebellion leads to sexual abuse.
If you find someone who is traditionally faithful to the Church you would find someone who seeks to uphold sexual purity and respect.
Now when you deviate from that to a more liberal perspective which does not adhere to faithfulness you start to see a desire to allow for sexual expression to deviance.
So every person who committed abuse would not be upholding the traditional Catholic faith even though they might have lived at a time when widespread dissent was only starting.

You don’t blame laws for the lawbreakers, you don’t blame marriage for the divorces. You blame dissent from faithfulness, you don’t blame the ideal.

The form of the Mass can indeed be part of the cause of the abuse if it is designed in the sort of way that fosters innovation. This is the arguement that Traditionalists bring up, which should be answered with a thoughtful answer and not just a denial. A reasoned response would be appropriate.

The videos are funny, as there has been no reasoned response from those who prefer a free form Mass. I find the videos funny as I live in California and seeing abuse is common, faithful Masses are uncommon and a cause for joy.

God Bless
Scylla

(I might go to my first full TLM on Ash Wednesday, this will be better than the liturgy of the word offered at my parish)
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Fact: The majority of priests who were accused of sexual abuse of minors were educated and were ordained prior to the promulgation of the new liturgy. The pre-vatican II priests were largely responsible for the sexual abuse crisis.

Now, NOTE I did not make a connection there. I don’t believe the TLM causes sexual abuse. But the logic is the same. The ordinary form of the Mass doesn’t cause liturgical abuse any more than the TLM causes sexual abuse. So, people should stop making such illogical claims.
 
Sure said:
Fact: The majority of priests who were accused of sexual abuse of minors were educated and were ordained prior to the promulgation of the new liturgy. The pre-vatican II priests were largely responsible for the sexual abuse crisis.

Now, NOTE I did not make a connection there. I don’t believe the TLM causes sexual abuse. But the logic is the same. The ordinary form of the Mass doesn’t cause liturgical abuse any more than the TLM causes sexual abuse. So, people should stop making such illogical claims.
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I agree that it doesn’t cause liturgical abuse but it certainly can be a big factor, whereas the TLM cannot be a factor in sexual abuse, sexual abuse is just a rejection of Christ and rules. Since the TLM is an expression of adherence to Christ and rules then it cannot be a factor.

Rules do not promote disobedience, but a lack of rules can promote a climate of disobedience. This is the contention that many Traditionalists promote and has not been answered yet. Does the free form of the Mass which is commonly understood to allow for personal expression promote liturgical abuse?

Does the lack of rules lead to a climate which promotes liturgical abuse?

Thank goodness there are now rules put into place which curb sexual abuse.

God Bless
Scylla

God Bless
Scylla
 
scylla said:
I agree that it doesn’t cause liturgical abuse but it certainly can be a big factor, whereas the TLM cannot be a factor in sexual abuse, sexual abuse is just a rejection of Christ and rules. Since the TLM is an expression of adherence to Christ and rules then it cannot be a factor.

Rules do not promote disobedience, but a lack of rules can promote a climate of disobedience. This is the contention that many Traditionalists promote and has not been answered yet. Does the free form of the Mass which is commonly understood to allow for personal expression promote liturgical abuse?

Does the lack of rules lead to a climate which promotes liturgical abuse?

Thank goodness there are now rules put into place which curb sexual abuse.

God Bless
Scylla

God Bless
Scylla
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There are plenty of rules in the ordinary form of the Mass. It is simply a comical assertion that the reason that priests abuse the liturgy is because there are not enough rules. Do you really expect that a priest who allows liturgical dance and ad-libs Euchraistic prayers would not do so, if there were big red words in the missal saying “DO NOT Ad-Lib”??? Priests abuse the liturgy because they are bad priests. Period. It has NOTHING to do with the Mass that they say. The climate of disobedience exists completely independantly of the text and rubrics of the Mass.
 
Sure said:
Fact: The majority of priests who were accused of sexual abuse of minors were educated and were ordained prior to the promulgation of the new liturgy. The pre-vatican II priests were largely responsible for the sexual abuse crisis.
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Fact: It is sunny and 70 degrees in Massachusetts today.
Hang on …

Nope. Writing “Fact” in front of a statement doesn’t make it true. Just thought I’d check.
 
somepurpose said:
Fact: It is sunny and 70 degrees in Massachusetts today.
Hang on …

Nope. Writing “Fact” in front of a statement doesn’t make it true. Just thought I’d check.
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Well, the fact are all listed in the John Jay Report on Sexual ABuse by Clergy, so I’m not making anything up. You’re free to look it up. It’s on the USCCB website.
 
Sure said:
Well, the fact are all listed in the John Jay Report on Sexual ABuse by Clergy, so I’m not making anything up. You’re free to look it up. It’s on the USCCB website.
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Now we’re cookin’. Thanks for the reference.
 
QUOTE=Eilish Maura;3266766]The only proper replacement would be elimination of the abuse not playing games re which missal to use.
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Freeing the TLM does not constitute a “replacement”, but a choice. The Summorum Pontificum is not about “which missal to use”, but about restoring the usage of the sacred Mass of the Ages, part of our heritage. Had the Bishops been more cooperative when the indult was the only way to pray this Mass, there would have been no need for the Motu Proprio:

Springfield, Mo., Bishop Refuses Indult Mass To Lay Faithful
unavocespringfield.org/articles/unavoce_wanderer.html

It seems to me that some of our Bishops & some of the laity are afraid of the Latin Mass. Can you tell me why??

Also, about the videos…lighten up!!!
 
Sure said:
Fact: The majority of priests who were accused of sexual abuse of minors were educated and were ordained prior to the promulgation of the new liturgy. The pre-vatican II priests were largely responsible for the sexual abuse crisis.

I have seen & heard this claim many times, yet I can find no substantial “official” evidence that it is true. I’ve scoured the John Jay report for Seminaries that produced a large amount of abusive priests. I’ve looked for dates of formation, ordination, etc., that would give us a clue…I’ve never found any. Perhaps you can tell us where the above statement can be proven true??
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CradleCath said:
I have seen & heard this claim many times, yet I can find no substantial “official” evidence that it is true. I’ve scoured the John Jay report for Seminaries that produced a large amount of abusive priests. I’ve looked for dates of formation, ordination, etc., that would give us a clue…I’ve never found any. Perhaps you can tell us where the above statement can be proven true??
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Section 3.3, Table 3.3.2 - 69.7% of the priests accused of sexual abuse of minors were ordained prior to 1969, the year that the new liturgy was promulgated.
 
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