Some help with a religious dillemma?

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braeden_mackay

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Hello All,

I was received into the Roman Catholic Church this past Easter (March 30 2013). I enjoyed the RCIA program, however I was quite dissatisfied. I have been doing a lot of research and prayer over the past month or so and I have come to conclusion that It is highly likely I will convert to Orthodox Christianity. However, I feel lost and I don’t know where to go, I am still young but I want to find my place early in my life and not later, I want to do Gods will and I feel that He is pulling me towards Orthodoxy. I love Roman Catholicism but I just cannot get over the changes that Vatican II made to the Church. How will I tell the Catholic Priests that I know, that I wish to convert? How should I go about this? Can anyone offer me any advice? Thank you so much for your time and assistance!!!
 
I know how you feel. After I converted in 2003 I seriously thought of becoming Eastern Orthodox because the Mass at my parish was so…well…let’s just say they had liturgical dancing and leave it at that! Anyway, I felt so lost. I didn’t know what to do. So, I started studying Eastern Orthodoxy and I visited their parish. Where I live, I only had one Catholic parish and one Eastern Orthodox parish. So, it seemed like the only choice I had. But, once I started studying Eastern Orthodox and talked to the priest, visited a Greek Orthodox convent and attended Divine Liturgy for a while, I came to the conclusion that the Catholic Church was the one true Church even though the liturgy in a lot of places has so many problems.

So, I would urge you to study deeply and impartially what the Orthodox really teach and why. Why do they reject the Papacy, why do they allow divorce and remarriage and contraception? Try to keep emotion out of it as much as possible and study the issues.
 
It may help if you could explain what in Vatican II cause you concern especially since I think that Vatican II took concluded in 1965. At the moment, your Thread maybe a little to generic to elicit the answers you are seeking.

God bless.
🙂
 
braeden_mackay said:
Hello All,

I was received into the Roman Catholic Church this past Easter (March 30 2013). I enjoyed the RCIA program, however I was quite dissatisfied. I have been doing a lot of research and prayer over the past month or so and I have come to conclusion that It is highly likely I will convert to Orthodox Christianity. However, I feel lost and I don’t know where to go, I am still young but I want to find my place early in my life and not later, I want to do Gods will and I feel that He is pulling me towards Orthodoxy. I love Roman Catholicism but I just cannot get over the changes that Vatican II made to the Church. How will I tell the Catholic Priests that I know, that I wish to convert? How should I go about this? Can anyone offer me any advice? Thank you so much for your time and assistance!!!
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vatican II really did not make as many changes as people think. you may be confusing it with certain abuses that crept in and are not completely eradicated yet. could you post certain things that bother you?
 
Well, to be honest, I am concerned by Vatican II as a whole. After what I have been reading and researching I see that Vatican II broke the Tradition of the Catholic Church. It basically reinvented Catholicism and I am not comfortable with that. I have been to a parish that it run by the SSPX and other splinter groups who also reject Vatican II but they are extreme and feel very cult like to me so they are all ruled out in my opinion. I am seeking the True, pure un-adulterated Christian faith that has been preserved until modern day all the way from the Apostles and Jesus Christ himself. Orthodoxy, is based on Apostolic succession and it has been consistent and continuous in all of its teachings through the ages. I seem to be able to find much more spiritual fullness and the presence of God in the orthodox Church than in the Catholic Church. Catholicism had maintained its tradition perfectly, until Vatican II, then something new was begun, however Orthodoxy hasn’t had a large and radical change like that, and this what makes it much more attractive to me. Orthodoxy has remained the same since the time of the Apostles and has carried the Teachings of Christ down through the ages without any alterations.

I deeply respect the Roman Catholic faith tradition since it has opened the doors for me to a whole realm of Spiritual wealth. I do not mean to bash Vatican II as I think it did do wonders in the church, but the fruits of Vatican II are not as important to me as Tradition is. Any further (name removed by moderator)ut or advice on this matter would be greatly appreciated! I am sure someone on here is much more educated on these matters than I am.
 
braeden_mackay said:
Well, to be honest, I am concerned by Vatican II as a whole. After what I have been reading and researching I see that Vatican II broke the Tradition of the Catholic Church. It basically reinvented Catholicism and I am not comfortable with that. I have been to a parish that it run by the SSPX and other splinter groups who also reject Vatican II but they are extreme and feel very cult like to me so they are all ruled out in my opinion. I am seeking the True, pure un-adulterated Christian faith that has been preserved until modern day all the way from the Apostles and Jesus Christ himself. Orthodoxy, is based on Apostolic succession and it has been consistent and continuous in all of its teachings through the ages. I seem to be able to find much more spiritual fullness and the presence of God in the orthodox Church than in the Catholic Church. Catholicism had maintained its tradition perfectly, until Vatican II, then something new was begun, however Orthodoxy hasn’t had a large and radical change like that, and this what makes it much more attractive to me. Orthodoxy has remained the same since the time of the Apostles and has carried the Teachings of Christ down through the ages without any alterations.

I deeply respect the Roman Catholic faith tradition since it has opened the doors for me to a whole realm of Spiritual wealth. I do not mean to bash Vatican II as I think it did do wonders in the church, but the fruits of Vatican II are not as important to me as Tradition is.
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you’re forgetting the major break of tradition of the orthodox church by breaking away from rome. rejecting the papacy is not traditional. and they have kept on splintering since then.

also, please do not confuse apostolic sacred Traditions with humanly installed ones.

there were already problems in the church, that’s why vatican II was necessary in the first place.

could you please be specific of examples of tratidions that you think were changed?
 
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braeden_mackay said:
Well, to be honest, I am concerned by Vatican II as a whole. After what I have been reading and researching I see that Vatican II broke the Tradition of the Catholic Church. It basically reinvented Catholicism and I am not comfortable with that. I have been to a parish that it run by the SSPX and other splinter groups who also reject Vatican II but they are extreme and feel very cult like to me so they are all ruled out in my opinion. I am seeking the True, pure un-adulterated Christian faith that has been preserved until modern day all the way from the Apostles and Jesus Christ himself. Orthodoxy, is based on Apostolic succession and it has been consistent and continuous in all of its teachings through the ages. I seem to be able to find much more spiritual fullness and the presence of God in the orthodox Church than in the Catholic Church. Catholicism had maintained its tradition perfectly, until Vatican II, then something new was begun, however Orthodoxy hasn’t had a large and radical change like that, and this what makes it much more attractive to me. Orthodoxy has remained the same since the time of the Apostles and has carried the Teachings of Christ down through the ages without any alterations.

I deeply respect the Roman Catholic faith tradition since it has opened the doors for me to a whole realm of Spiritual wealth. I do not mean to bash Vatican II as I think it did do wonders in the church, but the fruits of Vatican II are not as important to me as Tradition is.
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Ummm, I am trying to wrap my head around this…

Vatican II ended in 1965.
You entered the Church in 2013, almost 50 years later
What attracted you to the Catholic Church is a the apostolic teachings handed down through the centuries.
This WAS the same church that you were baptized into this Easter.
The parish community that exposed you to the teachings of the Church was a Catholic Church post Vatican II.
That post Vatican II gave you the faith tradition, even if there are disciplines and practices in individual practices that are not to your preference.
Vatican II DID NOT reinvent Catholicism

Again, I am not being sarcastic, but I think you have a skewed view of “big, bad Vatican II”.
Talking with the priests in your parish is the place to start.
 
I use to see things like that, but after going to religious education in a Catholic School, I realized it was the West (Rome) who broke away from the East, and not the other way around. Having the Papacy in the first place back then was not traditional, I know of Saint Peters primacy and other related doctrines, however early Christians never had a supreme monarch (ie. the Pope) who represented them and had extreme authority over them. That is why I think that all of the Bishops should be organized, but not one being given authority over all the others. I am NOT saying that the Pope is evil or the antichrist or taking on the view of a protestant. However, I am simply trying to convey the way I now see things after having done research on these subjects. I am well aware of the difference between humanly installed traditions (little “t” traditions) and Sacred Apostolic Traditions (big “T” traditions). It is my belief that all of the problems in the church could have been resolved without a radical council like Vatican II.

For example some of the traditions that I think were changed and or ruined include: The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, why did it have to be rewritten and changed entirely, could the Latin not just be translated into the Vernacular? The Tridentine mass was and still is very beautiful and I am aware of Summorum Pontificum which I believe covers this topic. But I think that the Church has tried to cater to protestants, that is just what I have begun to think and that references to Hell and the judgement of God have been eradicated from the collects and the liturgy as well as the mention of the prayers and merits of the saints. These things were all highly valued in the early church and in the church before Vatican II. Another would be the oath against modernism, I thought that if the Pope was infallible then Pope Saint Pius X could not have made a mistake and should not have been ruled over by his successor. I could go on and on with others, but I don’t have time to address all of them. I hope this helps, but I didn’t ask this question to argue but rather to gain (name removed by moderator)ut and insight as to what I should do.
 
coachdennis, I did not fully research the history of Catholicism before going through RCIA and the classes never mentioned the Tridentine Mass or the old ways of Catholicism, it was all Vatican II this and that, I was totally unaware, though I knew there had been slight changes, I thought that Mass was always the Novus Ordo. What drew me to Catholicism in the first place was the current influence of the Church, family, religion classes at school and that it was Gods One true Church.
 
To learn more on the Papacy read Benedict XVI Called To Communion.

Don’t leave, you just find things you don’t like about the Orthodox and be in the same place… Get educated on why the Church went with the vernacular etc. Etc…also the TLM is still available, Pius X teachings were not made null and we can gain a lot from them today.
 
braeden_mackay said:
Hello All,

I was received into the Roman Catholic Church this past Easter (March 30 2013). I enjoyed the RCIA program, however I was quite dissatisfied. I have been doing a lot of research and prayer over the past month or so and I have come to conclusion that It is highly likely I will convert to Orthodox Christianity. However, I feel lost and I don’t know where to go, I am still young but I want to find my place early in my life and not later, I want to do Gods will and I feel that He is pulling me towards Orthodoxy. I love Roman Catholicism but I just cannot get over the changes that Vatican II made to the Church. How will I tell the Catholic Priests that I know, that I wish to convert? How should I go about this? Can anyone offer me any advice? Thank you so much for your time and assistance!!!
Click to expand...
I have a good friend who is just like you…he became a member of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church and he is super-happy. He even found himself a good Ukrainian girl. He lives completely an “Orthodox” spirituality, but in communion with Rome. You should check it out. See if you have any Byzantine Catholic Churches in your area.
 
Is there any chance you could start attending the EF of the Mass? The FSSP (Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter) are in communion with Rome and they say Mass in the “old way” with great reverence.
You might find what you’re looking for there. :o
 
As someone who bounced around a bit earlier in my life always thinking the next place would provide the comfort I was looking for, I will give a little unsolicited experiencial wisdom. We do notfind peace through exterior circumstances. You are in a church in which you will find peace if you look. The sense of comfort comes from your connection to God within the body where you are, otherwise you will always be looking for interior peace from external sources which cannot provide what you are looking for. You were led to the ROman Catholic church for a reason. Give it a few years, find a spiritual director to help guide you, and begin a regular life of intentional prayer and I think the Roman Cathollic Church will “experience” a great transformation. (Actually it will be you, but it will seem like the church).

Good luck on your journey!
 
braeden_mackay said:
I use to see things like that, but after going to religious education in a Catholic School, I realized it was the West (Rome) who broke away from the East, and not the other way around. Having the Papacy in the first place back then was not traditional, I know of Saint Peters primacy and other related doctrines, however early Christians never had a supreme monarch (ie. the Pope) who represented them and had extreme authority over them. That is why I think that all of the Bishops should be organized, but not one being given authority over all the others. I am NOT saying that the Pope is evil or the antichrist or taking on the view of a protestant. However, I am simply trying to convey the way I now see things after having done research on these subjects. I am well aware of the difference between humanly installed traditions (little “t” traditions) and Sacred Apostolic Traditions (big “T” traditions). It is my belief that all of the problems in the church could have been resolved without a radical council like Vatican II.

For example some of the traditions that I think were changed and or ruined include: The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, why did it have to be rewritten and changed entirely, could the Latin not just be translated into the Vernacular? The Tridentine mass was and still is very beautiful and I am aware of Summorum Pontificum which I believe covers this topic. But I think that the Church has tried to cater to protestants, that is just what I have begun to think and that references to Hell and the judgement of God have been eradicated from the collects and the liturgy as well as the mention of the prayers and merits of the saints. These things were all highly valued in the early church and in the church before Vatican II. Another would be the oath against modernism, I thought that if the Pope was infallible then Pope Saint Pius X could not have made a mistake and should not have been ruled over by his successor. I could go on and on with others, but I don’t have time to address all of them. I hope this helps, but I didn’t ask this question to argue but rather to gain (name removed by moderator)ut and insight as to what I should do.
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i thik the early christians would disagree with you. st. irenaeus did say that rome was the preeminent church and all faithful churches would be in agreement with it.

the pope is not our supremem monarch, he is the vicar of Christ which means representive while christ is away. and in the same way, christ’s greatest servant.

who resolves conflict is all bishops are equal? it’s like having a government with no president.

and which orthodox are you thinking of joining? ukrainian? coptic, greek? eastern? antiochian? theykept splintering just like protestants.
believe me, i’ve been in yourposition, totally confused and nowher to go.

by the way, the central elements of the mass are sitll the same. the trinitine mass is not the absolute of all masses and has to stay that way for ever. before the council trent, there was no standard rubric and there wre slight variations. remember, Jesus warned us not to get caught up in tradition and forget the real meaning of being his follower
 
Can you go to a tridentine mass or at least find a more traditional Catholic Church? I, also, am not comfortable with liturgical dancing.
 
Can you get what you want, which seems a more traditional church, without rejecting the papacy and getting into beliefs which go against the Church?

Christ was very clear that he put Peter as the “Rock” on which the Church would be built, that the gates of hell would not prevail against the Church. When we reject Peter, we reject Christ. Can you find a way to look within the Catholic Church to find what you want?
 
I am thinking of joining the Antiochian Orthodox Church.my reasons are many, however an interesting fact is that in the New Testament, the followers of Christ were first referred to as Christians.

The Holy Spirit resolves the conflicts when all Bishops are equal through the action of Ecumenical councils.

Unfortunately, there is only one Tridentine mass celebrated in my diocese that has been approved by the bishop and it is located very far away from my home and I don’t have the funds to keep driving there all of the time. I have been to a church run by a very odd group who are very traditional however they are Sede-vacantist and reject the current pope. I have also explored the option of Eastern Catholic churches, however all services are in ethnic languages and they are all very ethnically based and didn’t seem very friendly or welcoming to me. there are only two Eastern Catholic Churches in my city and one speaks Greek and the other Ukrainian. I just feel so spiritually depleted, I had a spiritual director but he was not accessible and gave me poor advice about prayer and how to live my life in Christ. I am currently reading several books on Orthodoxy and things are becoming more clearer to me based on what they believe. Thank you for your assistance and (name removed by moderator)ut, it is most helpful!!!
 
braeden_mackay said:
Hello All,

I was received into the Roman Catholic Church this past Easter (March 30 2013). I enjoyed the RCIA program, however I was quite dissatisfied. I have been doing a lot of research and prayer over the past month or so and I have come to conclusion that It is highly likely I will convert to Orthodox Christianity. However, I feel lost and I don’t know where to go, I am still young but I want to find my place early in my life and not later, I want to do Gods will and I feel that He is pulling me towards Orthodoxy. I love Roman Catholicism but I just cannot get over the changes that Vatican II made to the Church. How will I tell the Catholic Priests that I know, that I wish to convert? How should I go about this? Can anyone offer me any advice? Thank you so much for your time and assistance!!!
Click to expand...
divinemercy.com/faustina/
 
Thank you for providing the link, however I am a Catholic who is very skeptical of these private revelations even though they might be approved by the Church. I don’t believe in the Divine Mercy revelations to Sister Faustina nor the revelations of Fatima. I just don’t see how they help Catholics, for some they may be great devotions, but for me they aren’t helpful, I prefer to stick to Dogma and Traditional teachings. I don’t have to believe in any of these apparition’s of Mary or Jesus to be a Catholic or to be saved. This is just so that no one will come at me with more quotes etc. Thanks again though.
 
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