Some moral questions regarding the cassock

[GloriousOrder]

Friends ,

I have become very attached to this beautiful holy Church that our Lord gave us. Despite being unbaptised, the holiness of the Mass pierces my heart every time we enter into it. When the cleansing water is poured over this head, it will be a grand entry into the gates of eternity with the angels rejoicing. I’m pretty excited, and I’d love to be a lector, altar server, usher… anything, anything, anything that I am needed in! Perhaps in a far off land of distant shimmering imagination, I could even be a priest (God-willing), so heartily have I grown to love this Church!

The priest who is educating me said he’ll be glad to take me as a server given time, so I make this assumption entirely based on his confidence. This would be in view of a future possible discernment of the diocesan priesthood, or other sacred duties in this grand Church. I really would like to attempt to influence as many people as possible into adopting the cassock and surplice over the alb, as the former is simply my preference in love. Now, would it be immoral, deceitful, or disobedient to the general ‘climate’ to measure myself for and purchase a cassock at the local Catholic store before consulting a priest, joining the servers, or entering seminary?

This cassock would be for potential use in the far future, so I ask: do seminarians generally even receive a cassock today (making my purchase presumptuous)? Should I stick to the alb measured for my baptism, if I intend to altar serve? Is it morally deceitful to measure and purchase a cassock for my dreams? Would it be a futile waste of money, since no one in Canada wears cassocks in serving Mass these days? All I know is: the Birmingham Oratory Mass I saw once, with its cassocks instead of albs, evoked the Heavenly Liturgy in my mind very strongly by its flowing textures and grand atmosphere. It spoke to me…

What is the general opinion, in prudence and temperance?

 

[malphono]

In the US, altar boys are still often seen in cassock and surplice, even at the Novus Ordo. In any case, as long as there’s no problem on the part of the priest (or the bishop) with your wearing it, go ahead and get a cassock and surplice if you wish. It might be a “sin” against your pocket-book, but not more than that.

 

[Bl_Pope_Pius_IX]

In the US, altar boys are still often seen in cassock and surplice, even at the Novus Ordo. In any case, as long as there’s no problem on the part of the priest (or the bishop) with your wearing it, go ahead and get a cassock and surplice if you wish. It might be a “sin” against your pocket-book, but not more than that.

Well, I wouldn’t say they’re “often” seen in a cassock and surplice, but its occasionally seen. Granted, I am speaking from the Archdiocese of Boston perspective, and I have only seen cassocks used in Cathedral Masses, and two other Parishes (both during the Tridentine Mass).

Pius :knight1:

 

[MarkThompson]

The cassock is generally considered clerical attire. As I understand it, altar boys vest in cassock and surplice because they are, metaphorically at least, standing in for actual clerics.

There’s no church law against a layman owning a cassock, but to me it would be a little like a layman buying a chasuble and stole. What are you going to do with it? Walk around town?

 

[GloriousOrder]

… as long as there’s no problem on the part of the priest (or the bishop) with your wearing it, go ahead and get a cassock and surplice if you wish. It might be a “sin” against your pocket-book, but not more than that.

Hehe . The point would simply be to purchase it for future use at a daily “low” Mass when other altar servers are not present or able to come. It would not be so I might “stand out” amongst the other servers, who would remain in albs. Obviously the permission of the celebrant would be necessary, but it’s just a fancy of mine.

Well, I wouldn’t say they’re “often” seen in a cassock and surplice, but its occasionally seen. Granted, I am speaking from the Archdiocese of Boston perspective, and I have only seen cassocks used in Cathedral Masses, and two other Parishes (both during the Tridentine Mass).

That is interesting… what better way of synthesising the two Forms of the liturgy by sharing excellent vestments?

The cassock is generally considered clerical attire. As I understand it, altar boys vest in cassock and surplice because they are, metaphorically at least, standing in for actual clerics.

This is a point to be considered very thoroughly. If that really is the allegorical nature of the server, then I would be best to stay in the alb. Whatever best keeps the unity of the Church in charity is best, despite my desires…

There’s no church law against a layman owning a cassock, but to me it would be a little like a layman buying a chasuble and stole. What are you going to do with it? Walk around town?

It is only the moral quality of having one and bringing it into the sacristy. My question is regarding its presumptuousness, or the forward nature of doing such a thing. I should have asked: “should I ask a/the priest before purchasing a cassock?”, or is it something any server can simply wear as “appropriate attire” without permissions these days?

 

[laszlo]

In Hungary in the good old times seminarians get their cassocks after a few weeks spent in the seminary. They became clerics by receiving the tonsure only a year later.

I see no problem to own a cassock if you use it only for serving at the altar; however I would discuss it with the local pastor or priests: the pastor is responsible

Here in the US guest priests usually bring their surplice and stole. In Hungary they had and regularly wore their cassock on the streets to, but they used the surplice or other vestment from the church where they served.

In our church the altar servers always are wearing cassocks, there are different sizes even for adults. In Hungary the servers used some kind of skirt matching the color of the feast, white surplice and something covering their shoulder, adults or older boys only black skirt and white surplice

 

[AugustV]

My friend,

You seem inordinately attached to the garment. That’s okay, it is your youth. My recommendation is that you NOT purchase the cassock. Instead, forget the trappings of the Church and begin a fervent prayer life in private. The latter is more difficult, but will clothe you with a far more glorious garment than any cassock.

 

[GloriousOrder]

My friend,

You seem inordinately attached to the garment. That’s okay, it is your youth. My recommendation is that you NOT purchase the cassock. Instead, forget the trappings of the Church and begin a fervent prayer life in private. The latter is more difficult, but will clothe you with a far more glorious garment than any cassock.

This looks to be the wisest reason for either “side” so far…

I am inordinately attached to the garment, it’s true. This is a very practical matter, however, and I would like to serve at the altar so I may grow in holiness. It looks like a prayer in of itself to assist at our Lord’s holy sacrifice…

 

[malphono]

Well, let’s see … hmmm :hmm: I don’t really care if the OP buys a cassock or not, but let’s be real. One comment says the cassock is generally considered clerical attire. True. But then the same comment goes on to say “it would be best to stay in the alb.” Huh?

The alb is more “clerical attire” than is the cassock. The alb is traditionally worn, (liturgically), by clerics of all ranks, over the casscok (or habit, if a religious). For extra-liturgical purposes, the alb is never worn. The cassock in and of itself is traditionally considered “street wear” and with a surplice it comprises “choir dress” (depending on the rank of the cleric). The alb, by contrast, is considered a liturgical garment. And I don’t care a whit about so-called “altar girls” (which are not traditional no matter how one slices or dices it) in albs.

 

[corsair]

If you plan to be an Altar server, then the parish generally has either the alb (which I dislike) or the cassock/surplice. The priest will set the “dress code”. Its not up to each server to decide which to wear.

Our parish has gotten rid of the white alb for servers and has gone to the black cassock/white surplice. Much nicer and lends to the reverence of the Mass.

 

[JReducation]

In the past, the acolyte wore a cassock and surplus, if he did not have a habit. If he had a habit, he wore the surplus over his habit. The cassock was traditionally the garb of the secular clergy and those religious who did not have a habit, such as the Jesuits, Salesians, Holy Cross Brothers, etc.

The alb is not a clerical garment either. The alb comes to us from the monastic life. Men and women monastics wore it (some still do) for the Liturgy of the Hours. There are different cuts, fabrics and styles. Obviously, it has always been worn by clerics during the mass. However, it is a liturgical garment, not a clerical garment. That’s why it is perfectly appropriate for a server to wear an alb. It’s just a carry-over from monasticism, not from the clerical state.

As far as seminarians are concerned, most dioceses do not allow seminarians to wear a cassock unless they are deacons. Religious congregations are a beast of a different color. Form some congregations, the cassock is their formal dress. They begin to wear it from their first day in the novitiate, whether they are going to be ordained or not. That’s an internal matter of the congregation. As far as the Orders are concerned, I believe that the Jesuits are the only order that wears a cassock. The other orders wear either a habit or secular clothing, depending on the rule given them by their founder.

If you really look at these details, there is no particular reason why a layperson would need to own a cassock. Servers will wear whatever the pastor chooses, not what they choose. Many parishes go with albs over cassocks because of cost. Cassocks and surplus are much more expensive than an alb. A cassock can cost as much as $100.00, plus the price of the surplus. A child’s alb can be homemade or purchased for about $50.00. They are much easier to maintain. Even the monastic alb worn by Cistercians and other monastic orders cost about $200.00 and last forever.

The beauty of the cassock is in its cut. The design was borrowed from the military. The surplus is simply a mini-choir alb. It was not meant to look like a maternity top. It was an adaptation of the monastic alb made by the mendicants to distinguish us from monks, later adopted by secular clergy and religious congregations. Cassock, alb, surplus, all have a specific purpose and specific history. None of them are clerical garb per se. I’m not sure where we got that idea from. I realize that it’s out there. I just don’t know where it came from.

All of this being said, it’s not a sin to own one. It sounds like an unnecessary expense unless one is required to have it. This has nothing to do with the price of eggs in China . . . I find the cassock to be a very uncomfortable garment. That’s why I prefer a mendicant’s habit. The cassock requires a full set of clothes under it and is snug around the neck. The habit of the friar or monk only calls for an under tunic, which is along T-shirt and it’s loose fitting around the neck. The alb is equally comfortable, plus no buttons. Yeh!

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[pablope]

Friends ,

I have become very attached to this beautiful holy Church that our Lord gave us. Despite being unbaptised, the holiness of the Mass pierces my heart every time we enter into it. When the cleansing water is poured over this head, it will be a grand entry into the gates of eternity with the angels rejoicing. I’m pretty excited, and I’d love to be a lector, altar server, usher… anything, anything, anything that I am needed in! Perhaps in a far off land of distant shimmering imagination, I could even be a priest (God-willing), so heartily have I grown to love this Church!

The priest who is educating me said he’ll be glad to take me as a server given time, so I make this assumption entirely based on his confidence. This would be in view of a future possible discernment of the diocesan priesthood, or other sacred duties in this grand Church. I really would like to attempt to influence as many people as possible into adopting the cassock and surplice over the alb, as the former is simply my preference in love. Now, would it be immoral, deceitful, or disobedient to the general ‘climate’ to measure myself for and purchase a cassock at the local Catholic store before consulting a priest, joining the servers, or entering seminary?

This cassock would be for potential use in the far future, so I ask: do seminarians generally even receive a cassock today (making my purchase presumptuous)? Should I stick to the alb measured for my baptism, if I intend to altar serve? Is it morally deceitful to measure and purchase a cassock for my dreams? Would it be a futile waste of money, since no one in Canada wears cassocks in serving Mass these days? All I know is: the Birmingham Oratory Mass I saw once, with its cassocks instead of albs, evoked the Heavenly Liturgy in my mind very strongly by its flowing textures and grand atmosphere. It spoke to me…

What is the general opinion, in prudence and temperance?

Hi, GO…the parish usually would have a supply or closet of attire for their servers/ministers to use. I would inquire first before purchasing one.

On another note, i do not know if this is a coincidence, in your other posts, I surmised you were single and I thought of messaging you to consider the priesthood. And now here you are professing an interest in it. I think the seminary usually will provide you the cassock you need, if and when you decide to enter.

I would say, continue in your discernment and vocation. A book recommendation for you: Many Are Called-Rediscovering the Glory of the Priesthood by Scott Hahn.

Would it not be awesome to confect the Eucharist to become Christ’s body, blood, soul and divinity? And the power to forgive sins?

 

[PA650]

Friends ,

I have become very attached to this beautiful holy Church that our Lord gave us. Despite being unbaptised, the holiness of the Mass pierces my heart every time we enter into it. When the cleansing water is poured over this head, it will be a grand entry into the gates of eternity with the angels rejoicing. I’m pretty excited, and I’d love to be a lector, altar server, usher… anything, anything, anything that I am needed in! Perhaps in a far off land of distant shimmering imagination, I could even be a priest (God-willing), so heartily have I grown to love this Church!

The priest who is educating me said he’ll be glad to take me as a server given time, so I make this assumption entirely based on his confidence. This would be in view of a future possible discernment of the diocesan priesthood, or other sacred duties in this grand Church. I really would like to attempt to influence as many people as possible into adopting the cassock and surplice over the alb, as the former is simply my preference in love. Now, would it be immoral, deceitful, or disobedient to the general ‘climate’ to measure myself for and purchase a cassock at the local Catholic store before consulting a priest, joining the servers, or entering seminary?

This cassock would be for potential use in the far future, so I ask: do seminarians generally even receive a cassock today (making my purchase presumptuous)? Should I stick to the alb measured for my baptism, if I intend to altar serve? Is it morally deceitful to measure and purchase a cassock for my dreams? Would it be a futile waste of money, since no one in Canada wears cassocks in serving Mass these days? All I know is: the Birmingham Oratory Mass I saw once, with its cassocks instead of albs, evoked the Heavenly Liturgy in my mind very strongly by its flowing textures and grand atmosphere. It spoke to me…

What is the general opinion, in prudence and temperance?

As others have mentioned, the parish that you would serve in typically provides the attire you would wear, such as an alb or cassock with surplice. Thus, I would recommend putting off the purchase of such items unless requested by the pastor for the occasion of serving at Mass.

 

[GloriousOrder]

Would it not be awesome to confect the Eucharist to become Christ’s body, blood, soul and divinity? And the power to forgive sins?

The very notion makes me shiver… my spine isn’t ready to take such a great amount of tingling sensations. The glory of God would be served so well in that manner… Of course, it’s our Lord doing the confecting and forgiving, but I see your point.

As others have mentioned, the parish that you would serve in typically provides the attire you would wear, such as an alb or cassock with surplice. Thus, I would recommend putting off the purchase of such items unless requested by the pastor for the occasion of serving at Mass.

I’m getting ahead of myself, as usual. Thank you for the calm and simple reply.

I find the cassock to be a very uncomfortable garment. That’s why I prefer a mendicant’s habit. The cassock requires a full set of clothes under it and is snug around the neck. The habit of the friar or monk only calls for an under tunic, which is along T-shirt and it’s loose fitting around the neck. The alb is equally comfortable, plus no buttons. Yeh!

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Yet again, brother, you have given us a thousand reasons to rejoice in your presence on this forum

Even if the garment is uncomfortable, we should wear it to mortify ourselves against pleasures. Of course, bearing discomfort for the sake of looking more neat and clean might be just as full of pride. You must balance and moderate life so carefully! Thank God we have… God!

A cassock can cost as much as $100.00, plus the price of the surplus. A child’s alb can be homemade or purchased for about $50.00. They are much easier to maintain. Even the monastic alb worn by Cistercians and other monastic orders cost about $200.00 and last forever.

I’ll just have to save up 800-1000 dollars and measure alllll the servers.

 

[baltobetsy]

My friend,

You seem inordinately attached to the garment. That’s okay, it is your youth. My recommendation is that you NOT purchase the cassock. Instead, forget the trappings of the Church and begin a fervent prayer life in private. The latter is more difficult, but will clothe you with a far more glorious garment than any cassock.

Best post in the whole thread.

Glorious Order, clothe yourself in humility and you will be radiant before God.

 

[The_Curt_Jester]

Back when I served (on weekdays), the pastor destroyed (yes, you read that right) the cassocks for the servers that were there (and there were a good number of them) and purchased albs. I brought my own cassock to serve the weekdays Masses after that.

Now, many years later, and with a different pastor, we still have the albs, though the person (not me) who serves most of the weekday Masses brings his own cassock and surplice. Funny eh?

So I see nothing at all wrong with possessing your own cassock. At the worst you’ll just look better than all the other servers!

 

[MarkThompson]

So I see nothing at all wrong with possessing your own cassock. At the worst you’ll just look better than all the other servers!

This is up to the priest, however. If I were a priest, I would certainly not want one of my servers to stand out and look different from all the others, unless he were perhaps a seminarian or something.

 

[Bl_Pope_Pius_IX]

This is up to the priest, however. If I were a priest, I would certainly not want one of my servers to stand out and look different from all the others, unless he were perhaps a seminarian or something.

I agree with this, some of the Parishioners might be inclined to think that the Altar Server vested in the C&S was someone other than an Altar Server.

Pius :knight1:

 

[JReducation]

Yet again, brother, you have given us a thousand reasons to rejoice in your presence on this forum

You may be alone in the rejoicing. It’s been my experience that there are many Catholics who would ratther see us (religious and clergy) on the moon rather than on these threads.

This has nothing to do with the topic at hand. I had an interesting situation today. A laywoman asked me a theological question. I gave her a response and she became angry and started to tell me the right answer. I found myself asking, “Why did you ask, if you already have the answer you want?”

It happens very often on these threads.

Even if the garment is uncomfortable, we should wear it to mortify ourselves against pleasures. Of course, bearing discomfort for the sake of looking more neat and clean might be just as full of pride. You must balance and moderate life so carefully! Thank God we have… God!

We have to be cautious here. There are two types of garments: liturgical and religious. Liturgical is self-explanatory. Religious would be the habit worn by religious orders and religious congregations.

Neither garment is meant to make one uncomfortable or to impose some kind of physical suffering. For example, our habit was never meant to make us uncomfortable. It was meant to identify us as part of a family of poor men. When Mother Teresa chose her sari, she was motivated to look Indian, not to be uncomfortable. In fact, the sari of the Missionaries of Charity is one of the most comfortable habits out there. When our Holy Mother Clare wrote her nuns in Prague about the habit she told them to choose a religious garb that was comfortable, practical, poor, and appropriate for the local culture. We have to stop and remember, this is the woman who was later called, “The First Plant of the Seraphic Father.” Despite Francis’ and Clare’s passion for penance, neither of them every saw clothing as a way of penance. It was a practial garment. Penance was about changing one’s worldview, one’s values, and doing the little things with great love. It had nothing to do with clothing.

When the Cistercians adopted the choir alb, which is now worn by many servers and clerics in liturgy, it was not for penance. It had a very practical reason. They did manual labor in their habits. The choir alb was thrown over the dirty habit. The cowl protected them from the drafty walls. The long wiide sleeves allowed them to reach into their habit without having to lift the alb. They also allowed them to keep their hands out of sight when not being used for work or prayer.

Since there was no such thing as a rosary, yet . . . or a hand-held breviary, the empty hands often became restless. The breviaries were very large books on a stand. The mendicants did not have choir albs, but some of them had scapulars, which were really aprons. They slipped their hands under the scapular.

I’ll just have to save up 800-1000 dollars and measure alllll the servers.

Or you coud donate that money to the Missionaries of Charity, the Missionaries of the Poor, or to Cross International

What can I tell you?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[JReducation]

I agree with this, some of the Parishioners might be inclined to think that the Altar Server vested in the C&S was someone other than an Altar Server.

Pius :knight1:

Cardinal Sean would probably appreciate it if you did not confuse the folks.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF