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LSK
Guest
The Catholic Church teaches there are no contradictions in Holy Scripture. There are, however, poor translations and the limited ability of human beings to understand the meaning of God’s Holy Word.
For future reference, remember that Catholics do not read the Bible as literalists. Instead, we read it and interpret the words in a literal sense. The difference is best explained this way: if I say to you that the weather here in Modesto, California has been crazy the past few days. In fact, last night it rained CATS AND DOGS, would you think I meant that the rainfall was unusually heavy or would you think kitties and doggies were falling from the clouds?
If you think we experienced a heavy rainfall then you are understanding me in a literal sense. Catholics read the Bible in that manner. Therefore, there is no contradiction in Holy Scripture, merely human’s inability to understand or problems caused by poor translations.
Hope this helps you understand us better - I know it helped me a great deal to actually learn something before I demanded everyone listen to my ideas…
For future reference, remember that Catholics do not read the Bible as literalists. Instead, we read it and interpret the words in a literal sense. The difference is best explained this way: if I say to you that the weather here in Modesto, California has been crazy the past few days. In fact, last night it rained CATS AND DOGS, would you think I meant that the rainfall was unusually heavy or would you think kitties and doggies were falling from the clouds?
If you think we experienced a heavy rainfall then you are understanding me in a literal sense. Catholics read the Bible in that manner. Therefore, there is no contradiction in Holy Scripture, merely human’s inability to understand or problems caused by poor translations.
Hope this helps you understand us better - I know it helped me a great deal to actually learn something before I demanded everyone listen to my ideas…
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asteroid
Guest
That site shows some very basic errors in biblical reading and interpretation. The author has forgotten these simple rules, among others:
- Get your translation right
- Don’t always be literal
- Understand what the words mean
- Read in context
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Chipper
Guest
Hi Think,
You know, this is quite a long list of items. Is there anything in particular that bothers you on this list?
For instance on the matter of “thou shalt not kill”. And then God turns around a commands the people to kill.
I think a basic principal is at play here. Governments do the same thing. They usally have laws making Murder illegal. And yet the government turns around and builds armies, to kill.
Fundamentally, the individual is the doing what’s commanded of him. So can the inidividual be said to be murdering, if he is following orders, and that is orders of a valid authority.
I think it is the same with God. God told “US”, individuals, not to kill. If we follow the command of God to kill, then are we actually violating the commandment? No. He told us not to kill, he didn’t say he wouldn’t kill.
After all, God basically kills (harsh word) someone everyday, via old Age, sickness etc… We all die, in effect we are all killed (crude word) by God.
In this sense I see no contradiction in the sense of kill or murder in the Old testament.
Chipper
Think said:
You know, this is quite a long list of items. Is there anything in particular that bothers you on this list?
For instance on the matter of “thou shalt not kill”. And then God turns around a commands the people to kill.
I think a basic principal is at play here. Governments do the same thing. They usally have laws making Murder illegal. And yet the government turns around and builds armies, to kill.
Fundamentally, the individual is the doing what’s commanded of him. So can the inidividual be said to be murdering, if he is following orders, and that is orders of a valid authority.
I think it is the same with God. God told “US”, individuals, not to kill. If we follow the command of God to kill, then are we actually violating the commandment? No. He told us not to kill, he didn’t say he wouldn’t kill.
After all, God basically kills (harsh word) someone everyday, via old Age, sickness etc… We all die, in effect we are all killed (crude word) by God.
In this sense I see no contradiction in the sense of kill or murder in the Old testament.
Chipper
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BobCatholic
Guest
They are in error.
Their interpretation of scripture contradicts itself. Scripture doesn’t contradict itself.
They confuse their interpretation of scripture with the scriptures. :tsktsk:
Their interpretation of scripture contradicts itself. Scripture doesn’t contradict itself.
They confuse their interpretation of scripture with the scriptures. :tsktsk:
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Dr.Colossus
Guest
Context makes all the difference here. God says “thou shalt not kill”. Context: thou thalt not deprive someone unjustly of life (murder). God commands Israelites to kill their enemies. Context: their enemies are enemies of God and deserve to die (thus their lives are not ended unjustly).
God says, “thou shalt not steal”. Context: thou shalt not take what is not rightfully yours. God commands Hebrew slaves to plunder Egypt. Context: the great Egyptian empire was built on the backs of the slaves, who were not recompensed. Thus what the Egyptians owned was not rightfully theirs.
Every last “contradiction” can be answered this way, so I’m not going to waste time dealing with any more.
God says, “thou shalt not steal”. Context: thou shalt not take what is not rightfully yours. God commands Hebrew slaves to plunder Egypt. Context: the great Egyptian empire was built on the backs of the slaves, who were not recompensed. Thus what the Egyptians owned was not rightfully theirs.
Every last “contradiction” can be answered this way, so I’m not going to waste time dealing with any more.
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Ahimsa
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Dr. Colossus:
Interesting. This defense was also used by African-American slaves who ‘stole’ their masters’ food, clothing, and whatnot.
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Think
Guest
Context…context…context…None of you have any understanding of what the authors were thinking when the texts were written. Just to make a simple point…According to the good Dr…God commanded human beings to murder people who were enemies…I want you to really think about that one.
Dr. Colossus:
Dr. Colossus:
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Paris_Blues
Guest
Think,
I realized that the reason why it seems to be contradictory is because we all have our own interpretation! That’s why we need the CC to interpret!
I realized that the reason why it seems to be contradictory is because we all have our own interpretation! That’s why we need the CC to interpret!
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Marquette
Guest
"But the goal of our instruction is LOVE from a PURE HEART and GOOD CONSCIENCE and a SINCERE FAITH, for some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion. 1 Timothy 1:5,6
“Think,” why don’t you stick with the atheist sites and chat with people of like mind. You obviously are not truly seeking , other than seeking to stir up dissention.
“Then the Lord answered “Think” out of the whirlwind and said, 'Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge? Now gird up your loins like a man and I will ask you, and you instruct Me! Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth!” Job 38:1-4
http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif Thanks to God for My Redeemer,
“Think,” why don’t you stick with the atheist sites and chat with people of like mind. You obviously are not truly seeking , other than seeking to stir up dissention.
“Then the Lord answered “Think” out of the whirlwind and said, 'Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge? Now gird up your loins like a man and I will ask you, and you instruct Me! Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth!” Job 38:1-4
http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif Thanks to God for My Redeemer,
Marquette
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Paris_Blues
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Yes, thank You Jesus for giving me the Grace to not accept garbage like what is put on here!:yup:
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Sarah_Jane
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Dr.Colossus
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I don’t see anything wrong with that either. I’m aware that the defense could be abused (i.e. “I think the government is an enslaving machine so I shouldn’t have to pay taxes”, etc) but things like clothing and food should have rightfully belonged to the slaves in America as well. Let’s say someone steals a valuable watch from me. Later, if I discover where they are keeping it, is it wrong to ‘steal’ it back?
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Dr.Colossus
Guest
There is a great difference between killing and murder. The first can be deserved, and it is within the authority of a government to kill a.) those within its society who threaten the safety of others and b.) those outside the society who threaten the society as a whole.
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Chipper
Guest
Hey Think,
I see that your occupation is listed as “law”. If so, then are you telling me you don’t know the difference between murder and kill?
I don’t have access to my “Black’s Law Dictionary” right now, but I am almost certain it is clear on the definition of murder. For instance here is a definition from a regular dictionary.
Murder:
: the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought.
Don’t you think God is the ultimate law? If he commands such a thing then it isn’t “unlawful”. Escpecially if they are enemies of God.
Chipper
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mommy
Guest
The funny thing about that link to Freedom FROM Religion: On their homepage it has a link to donate. However I’d hate to give them my money with “In God We Trust” on it… I don’t want to offend them.
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Bobby_Jim
Guest
I have a sense that God has a different view of “property rights” and such than we have here in modern America. In particular, if you are blessed by God with an abundance of wealth, food, clothing, etc, and you withhold it from your neighbor who is poor, starving, naked, in a sense you are stealing from him. Everything you have is from God, and it is not really yours to withhold!
To paraphrase chunks of Deuteronomy… “You shall provide food and comfort for the orphan, and the widow, and the alien in your midst, and the Levite who has no share in the land. For remember that you were once slaves in Egypt, and the LORD has set you free, and delivered you into this land. Justice alone shall be your aim, that you may have life and may possess the land which the LORD, your God, is giving you.”
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LSK
Guest
Poor Think - suspended again - I mean, already.
How can anyone read anything without paying attention to the context, to the historical times in which it is written, to the translations, etc.
I don’t think THINK is really schooled in the law - lawyers know how to think…lolololol
How can anyone read anything without paying attention to the context, to the historical times in which it is written, to the translations, etc.
I don’t think THINK is really schooled in the law - lawyers know how to think…lolololol
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El_Catolico
Guest
If you want to be able to disprove the Bible, then you should be able to provide at least one “slam-dunk” contradiction (as opposed to the numerous seemingly petty discrepancies which you base as your foundation as a rejection of christianity). Atheists cant do that, because there arent any. Every time we see a supposed “biblical contradiction”, we have an opportunity to learn more about the actual text. For example, the issue with the differing genealogies of Christ. It would seem to contradict itself, but there is a tradition from the early church about a levirate marriage within christ’s ancestry. Thus, from one genealogy, we can determine the actual bloodline of christ, while in another, we can determine the legal succession of christ. And so on.
The Bible does not contradict itself. Sadly you will never admit that. In order to reach out to unbelievers such as yourself, we cant start with biblical inspiration but rather the total historicity of the new testament events (which has been proven again and again by modern research). It is you, in reality, who needs to “think”- or rather to be intellectually honest and come to terms with the historical authenticity of the bible. Unfortunately, unbelievers will simply throw up flimsy arguments that do nothing but delay the ultimate conclusion of 1) God’s existence and 2) The divine mission of Christ. Life is short only to your detriment.
Pax Christi
The Bible does not contradict itself. Sadly you will never admit that. In order to reach out to unbelievers such as yourself, we cant start with biblical inspiration but rather the total historicity of the new testament events (which has been proven again and again by modern research). It is you, in reality, who needs to “think”- or rather to be intellectually honest and come to terms with the historical authenticity of the bible. Unfortunately, unbelievers will simply throw up flimsy arguments that do nothing but delay the ultimate conclusion of 1) God’s existence and 2) The divine mission of Christ. Life is short only to your detriment.
Pax Christi
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Malachi4U
Guest
Even if some events in Scripture seem to contridict each other, the fact is, the theology does not. Jesus founded a Church, not a book. The book is a tool of the Church. The Catholic Church, Christs body, gave us the Bible. Believe in and follow the Church. Use the tool as a tool of the Church.
I asked a Catholic nun a question about Bible contridictions. I asked her if the Bible (76 book version only!) is without error, then did Judas hang himself or gut himself? Which Scripture version is correct and which is wrong? She simply said, “Don’t worry about that, just follow the meaning of the Bible.” I think this is good advice. Scripture was written by who knows who years and years after Pentecost. People wrote the stories based on facts and the best information passed down to them by Tradition within the Church Christ founded.
Here’s an experiment. Get four WWI vets to write a complete story of the first great war. Get a few more grandchildren of the vets to write down the stories and events too. Don’t use any references when they write either, it must all be from memory. Some details may very but the truth will still come through.
I asked a Catholic nun a question about Bible contridictions. I asked her if the Bible (76 book version only!) is without error, then did Judas hang himself or gut himself? Which Scripture version is correct and which is wrong? She simply said, “Don’t worry about that, just follow the meaning of the Bible.” I think this is good advice. Scripture was written by who knows who years and years after Pentecost. People wrote the stories based on facts and the best information passed down to them by Tradition within the Church Christ founded.
Here’s an experiment. Get four WWI vets to write a complete story of the first great war. Get a few more grandchildren of the vets to write down the stories and events too. Don’t use any references when they write either, it must all be from memory. Some details may very but the truth will still come through.
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