Some new contemporary church songs you hate?

[KingAlfred]

Loud trumpets, drums, electric guitars, out-of-tune pianos and singers…

Truthfully, I want a Mass with no music, period.

 

[Cat]

Loud trumpets, drums, electric guitars, out-of-tune pianos and singers…

Truthfully, I want a Mass with no music, period.

The 6:30 Sunday Mass at our parish is done with no music. I think a lot of parishes in our city do at least one Sunday Mass with no music.

C’mon, KingAlfred. You know that the Mass isn’t about what any of us “want.” I know, you’re just expressing your preference and I’m sure you’re not trying to force it on the Church. And that’s OK. I would love a Mass with all of the above that you listed, except for the out-of-tune pianos! And I personally dislike Gregorian chant and would really cringe if Mass was all chant. But it’s not about what I want, either. It’s about what the Church says is appropriate.

 

[benedictgal]

The 6:30 Sunday Mass at our parish is done with no music. I think a lot of parishes in our city do at least one Sunday Mass with no music.

C’mon, KingAlfred. You know that the Mass isn’t about what any of us “want.” I know, you’re just expressing your preference and I’m sure you’re not trying to force it on the Church. And that’s OK. I would love a Mass with all of the above that you listed, except for the out-of-tune pianos! And I personally dislike Gregorian chant and would really cringe if Mass was all chant. But it’s not about what I want, either. It’s about what the Church says is appropriate.

Then, with all due respect, Cat, you would really, really abhor assisting at a Papal Mass since chant is mostly used, from the antiphons to the propers. In fact, the worship of Ancient Israel heavily featured this form of music, as the psalms were chanted. But, you might also have a problem with that, too.

You are correct in that we should be doing things as the Church asks. Interestingly enough, I discovered something regarding musical settings for hymns and such:

Certain other provisions seem to require further study and specification before being introduced as adapting legislation.** What is said here may be understood to apply to nn. 301, 304, 326, 329, 339, 343, and the portion of n. 393 referring to approved musical instruments. In cases where the Conference of Bishops is to legislate, such legislation should be truly specific, and the law intends precisely that any particular episcopal legislation on these matters be enacted in common by the Bishops of the Conference rather than being left to be determined variously in different dioceses. In the absence of any particular legislation on such a matter, specifications contained in the universal law maintain their full force. In other words, the Conference of Bishops may name specific materials or instruments as suitable in addition to those universally deemed so, but in the absence of such specification, only the “traditional” materials or those otherwise specified in the Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani are to be regarded as approved**.

This letter, from the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, notes that it is not the purview of the local Ordinary to decide what kind of instruments should be used for Mass. Rather, it is up to the actual Conference of Bishops. If the Conference does not have its own norms, then, the default is what is indicated for the Universal Church.

I really wish that folks would have a better understanding of why the Church has Chant as the preeminent form of singing and not fall to the old Hollywood stereotypes. Perhaps better education on the part of the faithful would help the situation.

 

[Cat]

Then, with all due respect, Cat, you would really, really abhor assisting at a Papal Mass since chant is mostly used, from the antiphons to the propers. In fact, the worship of Ancient Israel heavily featured this form of music, as the psalms were chanted. But, you might also have a problem with that, too.

You’re right. I watched the Papal Midnight Mass on Christmas Eve. I did not like the music at all–no melody and no regular meter. My Western ears found it grating and unsettling. What’s your point? Are you saying that I’m not allowed to say that I dislike Gregorian chant? Yes, if this is what’s done in the Mass, I’ll certainly submit. But I have not seen a quote that says I have to like it, just as you have not seen a quote that says you have to like music from the St. Louis Jesuits. I don’t think the Church asks us to appreciate and enjoy everything they tell us to do, but merely to obey.

You are correct in that we should be doing things as the Church asks. Interestingly enough, I discovered something regarding musical settings for hymns and such:

This letter, from the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, notes that it is not the purview of the local Ordinary to decide what kind of instruments should be used for Mass. Rather, it is up to the actual Conference of Bishops. If the Conference does not have its own norms, then, the default is what is indicated for the Universal Church.

I really wish that folks would have a better understanding of why the Church has Chant as the preeminent form of singing and not fall to the old Hollywood stereotypes. Perhaps better education on the part of the faithful would help the situation.

I don’t understand what the quote you posted means, and apparently you do. So please tell us what exactly does this quote mean for parishes in the U.S.? Does it means that pianos aren’t really allowed in the Mass? No violins, brass, winds, drums, etc?

Better education means stating things in plain English, not with vagueness. For most of us, especially converts, these out-of-context quotes mean nothing–we don’t understand how they apply to day-by-day parish life. If you do, please educate us. It would be appreciated.

I have to admit, I cannot see myself, a convert, confronting my esteemed bishop, who holds a Doctoral degree in Canon Law, and trying to explain that he has been in error for the last several decades. Hoo, boy.

 

[DihydrogenOxide]

D= Would it be a valid answer to say anything that includes the playing of a guitar, drums or harmonica?

 

[benedictgal]

You’re right. I watched the Papal Midnight Mass on Christmas Eve. I did not like the music at all–no melody and no regular meter. My Western ears found it grating and unsettling. What’s your point? Are you saying that I’m not allowed to say that I dislike Gregorian chant? Yes, if this is what’s done in the Mass, I’ll certainly submit. But I have not seen a quote that says I have to like it, just as you have not seen a quote that says you have to like music from the St. Louis Jesuits. I don’t think the Church asks us to appreciate and enjoy everything they tell us to do, but merely to obey.

I don’t understand what the quote you posted means, and apparently you do. So please tell us what exactly does this quote mean for parishes in the U.S.? Does it means that pianos aren’t really allowed in the Mass? No violins, brass, winds, drums, etc?

Better education means stating things in plain English, not with vagueness. For most of us, especially converts, these out-of-context quotes mean nothing–we don’t understand how they apply to day-by-day parish life. If you do, please educate us. It would be appreciated.

I have to admit, I cannot see myself, a convert, confronting my esteemed bishop, who holds a Doctoral degree in Canon Law, and trying to explain that he has been in error for the last several decades. Hoo, boy.

There was melody in the music used for the Papal Mass. It is rather amusing that you claim that your Western ears could not detect it, since this form of music, Gregorian Chant, is one of the oldest used in the Western world.

Cat, with all due respect, you know full well what the quote I posted meant. You were agreeing to something that the CAF member before you had posted. I was responding to your reply to that post.

In fact, if you recall, you had also made some claims in another thread regarding musical instruments. While researching the issue of music for an issue that I am working on to send to the CDWDS, I came across this particular letter dating back to 2001 (which has not been abrogated). You made a blanket statement that your bishop, any bishop, for that matter, could decide the musical instruments for use in his diocese. The CDWDS, apparently, does not share your view.

One can make the same old argument repeatedly that a convert can only learn so much. However, Cat, instruction and education in the Faith of the Church and in her Sacred Liturgies, do not end once RCIA is finished. Instructino and education in the Faith of the Church and in her Sacred Liturgies do not end once CCD classes have finished for cradle Catholics. Reading the authoritative documents of the Church, making ourselves availble to attend seminars taught by those with the proper Senus Fidei help us to better understand our Faith and the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. It is not enough to beat our breasts and use the tired excuse of either being a convert or being a cradle Catholic and not knowing very much. The resources are there. All we have to do is read them. And, this is not Protestantism. The Church has placed all of these resources for us to read and heed. Pleading ignorance is no longer a valid excuse.

 

[CatholicZ09]

To all members posting and/or visting this thread:

I contacted a moderator to hopefully get the title of this thread changed. I hope it will make this thread seem less “negative” and just something that we can express our views on contemporary church songs we don’t like. I am sorry for the choice wording that might have offended some. My apologies.

If that can’t be acomplished, I asked the moderator to get this thread closed or deleted.

 

[benedictgal]

The choice of wording is not strong. Unfortunately, as a priest friend of mine noted in his homily, many folks consider the greatest sin to be that of offending someone. Granted, it is certainly not my intent, but, there is great merit in this thread as it exposes some really serious problems with the state of music in the Church today, at least in the Church in America.

Whether we choose to see the problems or not, they do exist. No amount of sugar-coating is going to conceal that fact. What we tend to forget is that the problem of bad music at the Mass has reached the upper regions of the Church. Bear in mind that the Fathers of the 2005 Synod on the Eucharist considered music used in Youth Masses to be a shadow of the Church’s liturgy, as opposed to a light. This prompted Pope Benedict XVI to write in response that certainly as far as the lituryg is concerned, one song is not as good as another.

Even as far back as 2001, the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments recognized that this was a big problem. When the CDWDS wrote to the USCCB regarding the American adaptations to the GIRM, it reminded the conference that:

It is clear that according to the past implicit criteria which it has developed, the Conference would not approve banalizing settings or others that conflict with the liturgical spirit. Moreover, at a juncture when new compositions are to be made, it seems prudent to set in place a filter to exclude inappropriate settings for the future.

While it gave the USCCB the authority to regulate the settings, it did give specific parameters. Unfortunately, as I have found out through direct contact, the Secretariat for Divine Worship is a two-person operation and it is very difficult to get a handle on everything that is written. Thus, publishing houses like OCP and even GIA can get away with just about anything and everything. That is why we have dreadfully bad settings for the parts of the Mass (including paraphrasing) and equally bad songs that are not fit to cross the threshhold, as the late Pope Paul VI noted.

 

[zab]

… Unfortunately, as a priest friend of mine noted in his homily, many folks consider the greatest sin to be that of offending someone. Granted, it is certainly not my intent, but, there is great merit in this thread as it exposes some really serious problems with the state of music in the Church today, at least in the Church in America…

There is a difference between people being offended when hearing the truth given and insulting people when giving them the truth.