Some of my struggles with Islam and Christianity: The Bible and the Quran

[Pantheist]

My issue with the Bible:

It seems as though God was easing people into a message, from the initial (and more refined than was culturally common at the time) “eye-for-an-eye” and slaughtering all men and women in opposing nations, aquiring virgin women for oneself, so long as they weren’t already Jewish, and many other things. The new message being “love thy enemy”, more a message of peace and tolerance, though not completely so (women keeping silence in church, not suffering a woman to teach, slavery still seeming morally neutral)… maybe there’s another even newer testament around the corner to move us even further?

If this is the case, if there is this development of moral doctrine in the Bible, from inferior to superior, then how do we consider the Old Testament inspired with respect to the New Testament? Is the New Testament more inspired? What does inspiration (and inerrancy) mean within this context?

For the Quran, from what I’ve read, there wasn’t a bother keeping God the same, from Old Testament to today, and as a result, God appears to be rather brutish at times and, well, rather human. What does inspiration mean within this context?

 

[ralphinal]

Well, inspired can mean different things. Catholics hold that it means that it was written by men with God telling them what to write, but not always how to write it. You get creation stories that can be understood by bronze age people. Now, the information in there is exactly what God wanted us to have.

I like your transition theory. Howeverm can you show me where Jesus’s moral code is lacking? Then we can discuss if another is needed.

 

[Pantheist]

Well, inspired can mean different things. Catholics hold that it means that it was written by men with God telling them what to write, but not always how to write it. You get creation stories that can be understood by bronze age people. Now, the information in there is exactly what God wanted us to have.

And yet it still seems so bound by its time. Sure, it was centuries ahead of when it was written, in terms of treatment of women and slaves and homosexuals, and other groups, but it is far behind where we are now.

Now, you can say that the Catholic Church through its magesterium recovers this, continues to expand upon God’s message, but would that not make it more inspired than the Bible?

As for your definition of “inspiration”, I like it, and actually agree with it to a good extent. I think God did inspire the writers of the Bible, but through their reason, and through nature.

I like your transition theory. Howeverm can you show me where Jesus’s moral code is lacking? Then we can discuss if another is needed.

Well, I would say that it (meaning the New Testament, not Jesus’s own moral code) is neutral on certain issues that most people would consider to be wrong, like slavery.

There are other issues that i consider it to be wrong on, but it would be a mistake for me to dwell on those because I don’t have a good strong moral philosophy yet, and so could not justify myself if we disagreed; you would have a strong system, and I would have but my intuition.

 

[ralphinal]

And yet it still seems so bound by its time. Sure, it was centuries ahead of when it was written, in terms of treatment of women and slaves and homosexuals, and other groups, but it is far behind where we are now.

Now, you can say that the Catholic Church through its magesterium recovers this, continues to expand upon God’s message, but would that not make it more inspired than the Bible?

Expand may not be the best word, even if I used it. We apply the codes to todays situations. Look at the new additions to the seven deadly sins. No, it is not more inspired. A Catholic would say that the Church is inspired but not more so.

As for your definition of “inspiration”, I like it, and actually agree with it to a good extent. I think God did inspire the writers of the Bible, but through their reason, and through nature.

Well, I would say that it (meaning the New Testament, not Jesus’s own moral code) is neutral on certain issues that most people would consider to be wrong, like slavery.

Slavery is a strange case. Yes, Jesus never spoke against it. Through the years, the Catholic Church did, sometimes more than others. In fact, the Church had specific rules governing salvery. It was not to condone, but to make the system as kind as it could be. Needless to say, it was ignored.

There are other issues that i consider it to be wrong on, but it would be a mistake for me to dwell on those because I don’t have a good strong moral philosophy yet, and so could not justify myself if we disagreed; you would have a strong system, and I would have but my intuition.

There are always going to be issues that our pride or personal feelings cause us to see differently than God does. It does not mean that the message is wrong.

I admire the fact that you are taking it all slowly, alowing your position to develop before you go off and defend it.