Some of their teaching are had to belief

[Peter_J]

Not to budge in or sound attacking. But wouldn’t one understand some resentments Protestants have towards Catholics as well? (Again not always justifiable)

P.S. I’ve been thinking further about my earlier post

I can’t speak to what the intention of this thread was, but I would like to say that I think some of the resentment that Catholics feel toward Protestants is understandable (not to be confused with justified).

There are probably many things that could be said on this score, but I’ll just offer one (which I’d bet many have never really thought about): When a Protestant first starts thinking about Catholic teaching and says “That makes sense, but I’ll have to think about it”, we Catholics tend to view this positively; but when a Catholic first starts thinking about Catholic teaching and says “That makes sense, but I’ll have to think about it”, we view that negatively. (Some might say that the former is viewed as progress whereas the latter is viewed as delinquency, but I think that may be a bit to colloquial.)

and trying to see how it might look from a Protestant pov. I’ve thought of one thing that seems helpful for me to understand the “Protestant resentments” side of things (please tell me if I’m on a right track). Growing up Catholic I knew nothing about Protestants to begin with … Then when I eventually learned about Martin Luther, I saw it something like this: First Luther started out knowing that we (Catholics) are right; then he darkened his mind in some way; then he investigated questions that he originally knew the answers to.

 

[MichaelP3]

P.S. I’ve been thinking further about my earlier post

and trying to see how it might look from a Protestant pov. I’ve thought of one thing that seems helpful for me to understand the “Protestant resentments” side of things (please tell me if I’m on a right track). Growing up Catholic I knew nothing about Protestants to begin with … Then when I eventually learned about Martin Luther, I saw it something like this: First Luther started out knowing that we (Catholics) are right; then he darkened his mind in some way; then he investigated questions that he originally knew the answers to.

You must understand your post is somewhat ambiguous and I may answer to something you totally didn’t even mean.

By Luther Growing up having just one frame to find himself in, I agree? By Luther starting to wonder and realising so many things does not make sense, I agree? By Luther trying to correct them as a very devout Catholic, yes! By Luther being repeatedly shunned as a fool, maybe! And from there we all know what happened!

 

[PJM]

You must understand your post is somewhat ambiguous and I may answer to something you totally didn’t even mean.

By Luther Growing up having just one frame to find himself in, I agree? By Luther starting to wonder and realising so many things does not make sense, I agree? By Luther trying to correct them as a very devout Catholic, yes! By Luther being repeatedly shunned as a fool, maybe! And from there we all know what happened!

It is unlikely that Luther was ever a “devout Catholic”… WHY do I make this claim?

Because of the following reasons:

LOGIC: There can be and is ONLY one true God, Faith and Church founded and protected by God. It is impossible that God{defined as all good things perfected} could, would have or did wait some 1,600 YEARS for Luther to make his. what can only be, one truth per defined issue known to humanity.

HISTORY: The RCC had already existed for nealy 1, 600 years; provable in secular history

THE BIBLE: The Bible is a Catholic Book, It was the early Catholic Fathers who choose the 46 OT books AND it was The Early Catholics who authored the entire NT’s 27 books

Either the entire bible is God Inspired, or NONE of it is. It can’t be both ways

NOT one time, NOT one place in the entire bible can it be shown that GOD ever tolerated, desired. permitted, allowed, or even just looked “the other way” on ANY other sets of faith beliefs other than those HE entrusted to Peter and His RCC.

THE SACRAMENTS: Luther could not MORALLY leave the RCC where Christ Seven Sacraments; ESPECIALLY the Eucharist {REAL Presence}; Jesus HIMSELF,a dn Sacramental Confession; which remains the ONLY Known manner for sin-forgiveness that is GOD APPROVED, not a human invention. John 20:19-23

So in a logical and theological sense Luther choosing to leave the RCC; Luther choose to:

1. Leave the God of his youth
2. Invent a competing religion
3. Hebrews 6: 1-8 address what GOD foretells for those who leave HIS Church and Faith

He warns them of the danger of falling by apostasy and exhorts them to patience and perseverance.

[1] Wherefore leaving the word of the beginning of Christ, let us go on to things more perfect, not laying again the foundation of penance from dead works, and of faith towards God, [2] Of the doctrine of baptisms, and imposition of hands, and of the resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. [3] And this will we do, if God permit. [4] For it is impossible for those who were once illuminated, have tasted also the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, [5] Have moreover tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Douay Bible explanation **[1] The word of the beginning: The first rudiments of the Christian doctrine.

[4] It is impossible: The meaning is, that it is impossible for such as have fallen after baptism, to be again baptized; and very hard for such as have apostatized from the faith, after having received many graces, to return again to the happy state from which they fe**ll.

[6] And are fallen away: to be renewed again to penance, crucifying again to themselves the Son of God, and making him a mockery. [7] For the earth that drinketh in the rain which cometh often upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is tilled, receiveth blessing from God. [8] But that which bringeth forth thorns and briers, is reprobate, and very near unto a curse, whose end is to be burnt.

And NO, I ma NOT saying that everyone outside of the RCC cannot attain salvation, even though it is less likely and HIGHLY conditional.

Please see the Catechism of the RCC #/s 1260, 846, 847, & 848 for specifics

scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

God Bless you

PJM

 

[PJM]

quote Originally Posted by Peter J View Post
Yes, I can certainly agree with that. But what I said particularlyend quote

applies more to Catholics feeling resentment toward Protestants ISTM.

True. You just made me wonder a bit. All cool

Peter, my friend, I find your comment a bit strange. As a life-long Catholic, and a Catechist for MANY years; I am completely unaware of a “Catholic resentment” towards Protestants.

Puzzlement, seems a better term IMO

GBY

 

[Peter_J]

You must understand your post is somewhat ambiguous and I may answer to something you totally didn’t even mean.

By Luther Growing up having just one frame to find himself in, I agree? By Luther starting to wonder and realising so many things does not make sense, I agree? By Luther trying to correct them as a very devout Catholic, yes! By Luther being repeatedly shunned as a fool, maybe! And from there we all know what happened!

As I say, I do want you to tell me if I’m on a right track. (Perhaps other Protestants can chime in too – but I know how shy they can be .) But I have a suggestion that may help, namely that we focus more specifically on the idea that Luther originally knew (when he was Catholic) the answers to all the questions he asked.

 

[Peter_J]

You must understand your post is somewhat ambiguous and I may answer to something you totally didn’t even mean.

By Luther Growing up having just one frame to find himself in, I agree? By Luther starting to wonder and realising so many things does not make sense, I agree? By Luther trying to correct them as a very devout Catholic, yes! By Luther being repeatedly shunned as a fool, maybe! And from there we all know what happened!

Edit: I posted a response here … but then I thought it might be better in a new thread:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=14242546

 

[Peter_J]

I can’t speak to what the intention of this thread was, but I would like to say that I think some of the resentment that Catholics feel toward Protestants is understandable (not to be confused with justified).

There are probably many things that could be said on this score, but I’ll just offer one (which I’d bet many have never really thought about): When a Protestant first starts thinking about Catholic teaching and says “That makes sense, but I’ll have to think about it”, we Catholics tend to view this positively; but when a Catholic first starts thinking about Catholic teaching and says “That makes sense, but I’ll have to think about it”, we view that negatively. (Some might say that the former is viewed as progress whereas the latter is viewed as delinquency, but I think that may be a bit to colloquial.)

You must understand your post is somewhat ambiguous and I may answer to something you totally didn’t even mean.

By Luther Growing up having just one frame to find himself in, I agree? By Luther starting to wonder and realising so many things does not make sense, I agree? By Luther trying to correct them as a very devout Catholic, yes! By Luther being repeatedly shunned as a fool, maybe! And from there we all know what happened!

Thanks btw for that reply.

This isn’t very closely related (certainly not to the Luther-an discussion, but a bit related to the pre-Luther discussion), but read bc I say so:

While the vast majority of Catholics are “cradle Catholics,” baptized as infants and raised in the Church of our ancestors …
We are all converts, every one of us. Our conversion of heart is ongoing and lifelong, and the stories of our newest brothers and sisters in the faith serve as a reminder of that fact. Let this Easter begin our own renewal, rediscovery and transformation in the presence of the risen Lord.

• from Editorial: We are all converts. OSV