Some peaceful food for thought

[Sepharad]

A Story by Reb Zalman
retold by Nancy Fuchs-Kreimer

The Messiah finally arrives. Jews and Christians, after waiting for so many centuries, rush to meet him. The Jews cry out, “this is the first time you have come, is it not?” The Christians, raising their voices above the Jews, insist, “This must be Your second coming that we have been waiting for!” The Messiah smiles wearily and waits for the noise to subside. Then, in a quiet and gentle voice, long suffering, he says, “My dear, foolish children. I have come not once, not twice. I have been here hundreds of times. But you have all been so busy fighting with one another you have never even noticed.”

(Note: the words, “Jews” and “Christians” can also be substituted with “Protestants” or “Eastern Orthodox”, or “Catholics”, or…)

Peace.

 

[judcath4]

A Story by Reb Zalman
retold by Nancy Fuchs-Kreimer

The Messiah finally arrives. Jews and Christians, after waiting for so many centuries, rush to meet him. The Jews cry out, “this is the first time you have come, is it not?” The Christians, raising their voices above the Jews, insist, “This must be Your second coming that we have been waiting for!” The Messiah smiles wearily and waits for the noise to subside. Then, in a quiet and gentle voice, long suffering, he says, “My dear, foolish children. I have come not once, not twice. I have been here hundreds of times. But you have all been so busy fighting with one another you have never even noticed.”

(Note: the words, “Jews” and “Christians” can also be substituted with “Protestants” or “Eastern Orthodox”, or “Catholics”, or…)

Peace.

Shalom Sepharad,

I am new to the forum and I am a convert from Judaism to Catholicism. I am very happy to have found Jesus the Christ, the Messiah. He has already come. Peace.

 

[rpp]

Shalom Sepharad,

I am new to the forum and I am a convert from Judaism to Catholicism. I am very happy to have found Jesus the Christ, the Messiah. He has already come. Peace.

Welcome to the forum and welcome to the Catholic Church. May God richly bless you.

Sepharad,

This honestly sounds like New Age mumbo jumbo. It is not supportable by the Old or New testaments, nor by any other Jewish writings I am aware of. I am honestly surprised you would post it, being a faithful Jew.

 

[Sepharad]

Fortunately, most Americans see things the right way:

news.aol.com/story/_a/americans-tolerant-of-religions-poll/20080623151109990001?icid=100214839x1204702236x1200196678

Just another reason why I am thankful to God that I am an American!

 

[Sepharad]

Shalom Sepharad,

I am new to the forum and I am a convert from Judaism to Catholicism. I am very happy to have found Jesus the Christ, the Messiah. He has already come. Peace.

I am sorry to hear that.

But this thread is not about that, why not discuss your conversion elsewhere on this forum?

 

[Sepharad]

Welcome to the forum and welcome to the Catholic Church. May God richly bless you.

Sepharad,

This honestly sounds like New Age mumbo jumbo. It is not supportable by the Old or New testaments, nor by any other Jewish writings I am aware of. I am honestly surprised you would post it, being a faithful Jew.

Unlike Christianity and Islam, Judaism does not seek to impose its will or beliefs on other people, either by persuasion or by force.

That is how I was able to post it. The story, in fact, was authored by a Chasidic Rabbi.

The more I experience life, both online and offline, the more I see the truth in that story. If you disagree, then we will just have to agree to disagree. I refuse to take part any further in religious battles, be they verbal or physical…all they do is disgrace the Name of God in front of unbelievers.

 

[Yerusalyim]

I suppose I could see an Chasidic flavor to that. The Messiah can come at anytime as long as we are ready for him…that’s how I understand the Chasidic POV.

 

[judcath4]

I am sorry to hear that.

But this thread is not about that, why not discuss your conversion elsewhere on this forum?

You are sorry to hear that I found Christ? You sound very angry at my conversion. I am use to fellow Jews who were angry at me for a little bit, then they accepted me. Why not accept me instead of being rude?

 

[Sepharad]

You are sorry to hear that I found Christ? You sound very angry at my conversion. I am use to fellow Jews who were angry at me for a little bit, then they accepted me. Why not accept me instead of being rude?

All Jews are in a Covenant relationship with God. If any choose to reject that Covenant, they will have to answer for it to God. It is not something I have any say over. If you sincerely want to understand the Jewish position on this, see: simpletoremember.com/vitals/jewsandjesus.htm

Have a nice day, and please, take any arguments elsewhere. Please note the title of this thread and the original post. This is not the thread for it.

 

[judcath4]

All Jews are in a Covenant relationship with God. If any choose to reject that Covenant, they will have to answer for it to God. It is not something I have any say over.

Have a nice day, and please, take any arguments elsewhere. Please note the title of this thread and the original post. This is not the thread for it.

I agree all Jews are in relationship with God, and to reject Jesus is far worse than you can ever imagine. I am not arguing here, I am a peaceful convert. Many Jews ‘reject’ God’s covenant, don’t you agree? I hope you come to terms with Jews who are converting to the Catholic faith, don’t be so angry.

 

[Sepharad]

I agree all Jews are in relationship with God, and to reject Jesus is far worse than you can ever imagine. I am not arguing here, I am a peaceful convert. Many Jews ‘reject’ God’s covenant, don’t you agree? I hope you come to terms with Jews who are converting to the Catholic faith, don’t be so angry.

You are off-topic. If you want to discuss this, please start a separate topic for it.

Have a nice day!

 

[judcath4]

You are off-topic. If you want to discuss this, please start a separate topic for it.

Have a nice day!

Hello Sepharad.

In my journey, as I was growing up I always envied the Catholics who just seemed to get it right. My urge was very strong and my desire for Christ was in magnitude. I tried to fight it off but couldn’t.
Anyway, I have been on other sites and I find this one to be the best. Although I am being frightened by your responses to me so I do not know if I should stay. I do not want to make you upset any more by my conversion.

 

[Sepharad]

Hello Sepharad.

In my journey, as I was growing up I always envied the Catholics who just seemed to get it right. My urge was very strong and my desire for Christ was in magnitude. I tried to fight it off but couldn’t.
Anyway, I have been on other sites and I find this one to be the best. Although I am being frightened by your responses to me so I do not know if I should stay. I do not want to make you upset any more by my conversion.

I am not upset by your conversion. Truthfully, I could not care less, I don’t even know you.

But what I am upset by is your seeming insistence on disrupting a discussion that is not about conversion to or from any religion.

Did you read the forum rules when you joined? Why won’t you take this discussion of conversion to a thread more appropriate to that subject?

 

[judcath4]

I am not upset by your conversion. Truthfully, I could not care less, I don’t even know you.

But what I am upset by is your seeming insistence on disrupting a discussion that is not about conversion to or from any religion.

Did you read the forum rules when you joined? Why won’t you take this discussion of conversion to a thread more appropriate to that subject?

Hello Sepahard,

You sound just like the Jews I know who are very angry at the Catholic church for converting your people, my people. But if you understood my desire for Jesus who really is the Messiah (it took me a long time to reach that conclusion), you may have a better attitude towards others. Even me. This is not about my conversion story, but about both of us as Jews and one seeing the light and not the other.
BTW, you didn’t answer my question, do you feel that other Jews break the covenant of God? Or does every Jew keep it. Thank you.

 

[b_justb]

Fortunately, most Americans see things the right way:

news.aol.com/story/_a/americans-tolerant-of-religions-poll/20080623151109990001?icid=100214839x1204702236x1200196678

Just another reason why I am thankful to God that I am an American!

Are you subscribing correct and incorrect thinking, a maxim of right and wrong, to those who agree or disagree with the ideas of religious tolerance as outlined in this public opinion pole? Do I read you correctly?

 

[Sepharad]

Are you subscribing correct and incorrect thinking, a maxim of right and wrong, to those who agree or disagree with the ideas of religious tolerance as outlined in this public opinion pole? Do I read you correctly?

What I am saying is that it is best for all people to respect the religious faiths of others. Too many wars have been fought over religious issues.

 

[b_justb]

What I am saying is that it is best for all people to respect the religious faiths of others. Too many wars have been fought over religious issues.

In the OP, the article places these words into the Messiah’s mouth:

“My dear, foolish children. I have come not once, not twice. I have been here hundreds of times. But you have all been so busy fighting with one another you have never even noticed.”

rpp stated it sounded like New Age mumbo jumbo, which I am inclined to believe as well. This statement by the author of the article does not say, “Respect and love other people no matter what they believe.” Instead it says, “What you as Christians and what you as Jews believe is foolish and you are blind to Truth.” The statement is a direct insult to two distinct faith paths and as such is very intolerant. I am surprised that you, or anyone, would find it acceptable.

 

[Sepharad]

In the OP, the article places these words into the Messiah’s mouth:rpp stated it sounded like New Age mumbo jumbo, which I am inclined to believe as well. This statement by the author of the article does not say, “Respect and love other people no matter what they believe.” Instead it says, “What you as Christians and what you as Jews believe is foolish and you are blind to Truth.” The statement is a direct insult to two distinct faith paths and as such is very intolerant. I am surprised that you, or anyone, would find it acceptable.

I guess you just don’t “get” what the story is saying. The first time I read it, I cried because I did “get it”.

God is not the author of strife, or hatred, or anger. God is love and peacefulness, and as long as “religious” people fight and argue amongst themselves, they will be in danger of not recognizing the Messiah when he comes. And their hatred and warring will even keep him away.

Does not the Christian Bible say, “God is not the author of confusion, but of peace”?

 

[b_justb]

I guess you just don’t “get” what the story is saying. The first time I read it, I cried because I did “get it”.

God is not the author of strife, or hatred, or anger. God is love and peacefulness, and as long as “religious” people fight and argue amongst themselves, they will be in danger of not recognizing the Messiah when he comes. And their hatred and warring will even keep him away.

Does not the Christian Bible say, “God is not the author of confusion, but of peace”?

I would suggest that I completely get what the story is saying and you do not. That is my belief. As such, a person who is a self professed as Religious Tolerant and non-evangelical in their own beliefs would support my belief of the story and encourage me to delve deeper into my own beliefs and understandings of the story. But that’s not what you want. You are not what you think you are as is clearly seen by your posts here. Suggesting that I just don’t “get it” where you do is not religious tolerance, it’s neo-liberalism’s relativistic snobbery. These ae the ideas that spring from such a world view: I know better than others so therefore what I think IS THE ONLY way to think. All others that disagree with me are intolerant and I will put them in their place.

I find all relativistic thought to be completely self destroying upon just a cursory glace of any issue; the example given by the article in the OP is just another example of that.

The verse you are referring to is from St. Paul’s First Epistle to the Christian Church in Corinth, Chapter 14 verse 33. Let’s look at it in context, verses 33-37 are quoted here from the RSV-CE:

[sup]33[/sup] For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints, [sup]34[/sup] the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. [sup]35[/sup] If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. [sup]36[/sup] What! Did the word of God originate with you, or are you the only ones it has reached? [sup]37[/sup] If any one thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that what I am writing to you is a command of the Lord.

Are these really the proof texts you want to use to support Religious Tolerance?

 

[Jo_Benedict]

Note:

Please keep this thread on topic. Thank you.