Some Protestants Believe the Strangest things.

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I was raised in a Non-denominational (Evangelical Fundamentalist) group and I converted to Catholicism. When talking to family and friends in this group one crazy belief keeps coming up that I heard all through my life and I have no idea where to begin to respond to it.

I hear them say that their beliefs are most like early Christian beliefs and for over a thousand years while the Catholic Church was in charge, there was always a small underground “true Christian” group that always existed until they could start joining Protestant churches after the reformation. They sometimes give names of small heretical groups (none of which have any resemblance of modern Protestants in their beliefs) that got snuffed out really quickly.

I just find this belief ridiculous and illogical since even secular sources disagree with their theories and side with the small heretical groups which all didn’t last very long. How do you even begin to respond to such an illogical belief?
 
That does seem a bit strange, considering the Catholic Church was the very first church. Maybe there were some “rebels” that went against the church and began their own religion in the early stages…but I see no evidence of that until the Protestant Reformation so I’m not sure! 🙂

God bless you,
Melani
 
I have heard of a book called ’ The pilgrim church’ by E H Broadbent which goes into this theory. I think he has said some of the groups the Catholic church called heretics are actually the true Christians.

I haven’t read it myself, but that was the impression I got. It would be interesting for someone who was knowledgeable about Church history to read it and provide a Catholic response.
 
JoArtist said:
I was raised in a Non-denominational (Evangelical Fundamentalist) group and I converted to Catholicism. When talking to family and friends in this group one crazy belief keeps coming up that I heard all through my life and I have no idea where to begin to respond to it.

I hear them say that their beliefs are most like early Christian beliefs and for over a thousand years while the Catholic Church was in charge, there was always a small underground “true Christian” group that always existed until they could start joining Protestant churches after the reformation. They sometimes give names of small heretical groups (none of which have any resemblance of modern Protestants in their beliefs) that got snuffed out really quickly.

I just find this belief ridiculous and illogical since even secular sources disagree with their theories and side with the small heretical groups which all didn’t last very long. How do you even begin to respond to such an illogical belief?
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JoArtist,

I doubt you will find any concrete evidence for such a claim. Perhaps, you could ask them for specific historical documentation that such a group always existed.

Peace,
Anna
 
I heard this theory too. The problem with it is that they are believing a myth conjured up in their own minds. There is no proof or evidence for this claim.
 
There is no evidence for this. If they look at the Church fathers, they will understand. I mean, I think generally they cite the legalization of Christianity in the Roman Empire as the “change”, but no sects came out of the Catholic Church when Catholicism was legalized. It reminds me of a quote that is like “to be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant”.
 
Swiss_Guy said:
There is no evidence for this. If they look at the Church fathers, they will understand. I mean, I think generally they cite the legalization of Christianity in the Roman Empire as the “change”, but no sects came out of the Catholic Church when Catholicism was legalized. It reminds me of a quote that is like “to be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant”.
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It is funny, because when I stared an art history class in college and learning some church history along side is when I started doubting that the Protestants (I was one at the time) were right. This was my first step in my journey to the Roman Catholic Church.
 
JoArtist said:
It is funny, because when I stared an art history class in college and learning some church history along side is when I started doubting that the Protestants (I was one at the time) were right. This was my first step in my journey to the Roman Catholic Church.
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Well, I’m glad you came to the Catholic Church.

From what I gather into this topic (and it is one I’ve experienced firsthand as well), is that you are certainly not alone. Many Protestants actually come to the Catholic Church when they start reading the Church Fathers, and the History of the Church.

And, if you think about it, a belief like this is necessary to go alongside “Scripture Alone”. The Bible is just as much about history as it is about spiritual teachings. And, if you want to learn about the history of Christianity, you’re going to see that it all sounds pretty Catholic throughout all of it. But, because those writings are outside Sola Scriptura, the majority of Protestants don’t give them the time of day.

And that’s the basic conclusion: Until the Great Schism, the mainstream of Christianity was all Catholic. All other legitimate strands of Christianity in those first 1000 years are all part of our Eastern Orthodox brothers. But, as for anything that resembles modern Protestantism… its just not there. And it takes a lot of effort for Protestant scholars and theologians to come up with an explanation.

This theory is their agreed upon explanation.
 
That’s not a new theory, sadly. I forget the name for it, but yes, they pretty much cherrypick a bunch of unrelated, often barely Christian, groups and claim they agreed with their beliefs. Usually due to some minor similarity.

I seem to recall an earlier conversation about the theory on this forum. Someone mentioned that the guy who came up with it later recanted. I don’t know if that’s true or not, and I don’t have the specifics.
 
Nine_Two said:
That’s not a new theory, sadly. I forget the name for it, but yes, they pretty much cherrypick a bunch of unrelated, often barely Christian, groups and claim they agreed with their beliefs. Usually due to some minor similarity.
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The problem is that we know the dates when these heresies were stamped out, and they were gone from the earth hundreds of years before Protestantism ever existed. Also, most Protestants don’t believe the heresies that these groups promoted, either, for the most part.
 
jmcrae said:
The problem is that we know the dates when these heresies were stamped out, and they were gone from the earth hundreds of years before Protestantism ever existed. Also, most Protestants don’t believe the heresies that these groups promoted, either, for the most part.
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To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant. 😉

This is what they believe is historical reality. trailofblood.org/
 
jmcrae said:
The problem is that we know the dates when these heresies were stamped out, and they were gone from the earth hundreds of years before Protestantism ever existed. Also, most Protestants don’t believe the heresies that these groups promoted, either, for the most part.
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Any attempt to hold on to some legitimacy I suppose.
 
JoArtist said:
I was raised in a Non-denominational (Evangelical Fundamentalist) group and I converted to Catholicism. When talking to family and friends in this group one crazy belief keeps coming up that I heard all through my life and I have no idea where to begin to respond to it.

I hear them say that their beliefs are most like early Christian beliefs and for over a thousand years while the Catholic Church was in charge, there was always a small underground “true Christian” group that always existed until they could start joining Protestant churches after the reformation. They sometimes give names of small heretical groups (none of which have any resemblance of modern Protestants in their beliefs) that got snuffed out really quickly.

I just find this belief ridiculous and illogical since even secular sources disagree with their theories and side with the small heretical groups which all didn’t last very long. How do you even begin to respond to such an illogical belief?
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It is part of the paradigm. Early on, in my experience, the saved are warned against reading anything but the Bible and protecting their Faith…many of the functions, Bible studies, and other meetings outside the ecclesial body are conducted in homes. In time as these people have a history of meeting in homes they come to believe that the Church was indeed underground as they are a living example of such thinking. When approached with the reality of history…it is hard to bridge the gap with reality…the history that they have been inculcated with is the Whore of Babylon, The Apostate Church, the suppression of real Christians, fostered by books like Martyrs Mirror, Foxes book of martyrs and the varied and sundried attempts to reconstruct history by Protestant writers…including books to support evidence for the existence of the Bible…like “Evidence that demands a verdict”…denying the Catholic Church and production of the Bible…it should be properly called “Evidence that demands a refund”…
 
JoArtist said:
I was raised in a Non-denominational (Evangelical Fundamentalist) group and I converted to Catholicism. When talking to family and friends in this group one crazy belief keeps coming up that I heard all through my life and I have no idea where to begin to respond to it.

I hear them say that their beliefs are most like early Christian beliefs and for over a thousand years while the Catholic Church was in charge, there was always a small underground “true Christian” group that always existed until they could start joining Protestant churches after the reformation. They sometimes give names of small heretical groups (none of which have any resemblance of modern Protestants in their beliefs) that got snuffed out really quickly.

I just find this belief ridiculous and illogical since even secular sources disagree with their theories and side with the small heretical groups which all didn’t last very long. How do you even begin to respond to such an illogical belief?
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JoArtist,

You can read Trail of Blood online. Link: bryanstation.com/online-media/books/trail-of-blood-english. (I wouldn’t waste money buying a copy.)

The Fundamental Doctrines reveal serious problems. In number five, we find Its laws and doctrines: The New Testament and that only. They have, like Marcion in 150 CE, eliminated the Old Testament. Trail of Blood becomes a source of doctrine in its place. Even in their use of the New Testament; they have corrupted what is clearly revealed in Holy Scripture. There is so much wrong with this document; it’s difficult to know where to begin. It is, also, vehemently anti-Catholic.

"FUNDAMENTAL*DOCTRINES
  1. A spiritual Church, Christ its founder, its only head and law giver.
  2. Its ordinances, only two, Baptism and the Lord’s Supper. They are typical and
    memorial, not saving.
  3. Its officers, only two, bishops or pastors and deacons; they are servants of the
    church.
  4. Its Government, a pure Democracy, and that executive only, never legislative.
  5. Its laws and doctrines: The New Testament and that only.
  6. Its members. Believers only, that are saved by grace, not works, through the
    regenerating power of the Holy Spirit.
  7. Its requirements. Believers on entering the church to be baptized, that by immersion,
    then obedience and loyalty to all New Testament Laws.
  8. The various churches separate and independent in their execution of laws and
    discipline and in their responsibilities to God but cooperative in work.
  9. Complete separation of Church and State.
  10. Absolute Religious Liberty for all."
Peace,
Anna
 
They live in a dream world. There is no way to fight a phantom of their imaginations.
 
Sadly, it is the result of the first of the seven deadly sins…pride.

They can’t just admit the plainly obvious (that their version of Christianity was created in the 1600’s or later), that they create these wildly fanciful tales. They just can’t handle having to admit they may be wrong.

Pride is always the first of the deadly sins, because it is the beginning of every sin. We sin when we place ourselves and our wills above God and His will.
 
Christ is a King. And Christ the King tells us exactly what his Kingdom will be like in the Kingdom parables of Matthew 13.

*** “The kingdom of heaven is like a grain of mustard seed which a man took and sowed in his field; it is the smallest of all seeds, but when it has grown it is the greatest of shrubs and becomes a tree**, so that the birds of the air come and make nests in its branches.” (Matthew 12:31-32)*

In the Bible, trees always represented powerful nations and birds often represented the Gentiles. Christ tells us that his kingdom will start hidden, like a small seed, but will grow into a powerful nation, one in which the Gentile nations will find a home.

Christ does not lie. We have to ask ourselves which Church most resembles this throughout history.

-Tim-
 
zz912 said:
Sadly, it is the result of the first of the seven deadly sins…pride.

They can’t just admit the plainly obvious (that their version of Christianity was created in the 1600’s or later), that they create these wildly fanciful tales. They just can’t handle having to admit they may be wrong.

Pride is always the first of the deadly sins, because it is the beginning of every sin. We sin when we place ourselves and our wills above God and His will.
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zz912,

Not necessarily. The pastors in some of these churches have a great deal of power over their congregations; and they use scare tactics to keep them in line. So, church members wouldn’t dare read anything in opposition to the pastor. I have friends who have been in these types of situations. One in particular, treated me like I was the devil himself, when I questioned her beliefs. She wouldn’t even discuss why she believes what she does. There is a “cult mentality” that is really quite prevalent, and the congregations become victims.

I think they deserve, at the very least, our compassion and prayers.

Peace,
Anna
 
jmcrae said:
The problem is that we know the dates when these heresies were stamped out, and they were gone from the earth hundreds of years before Protestantism ever existed. Also, most Protestants don’t believe the heresies that these groups promoted, either, for the most part.
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Hello De-Friended, Re-Friended Friend. 👋 Long time no talk.

Anna
 
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