Some questions about Eastern Catholic Church

[rdorseyhsd]

The Byzantine Italo-Greeks were never separated from Rome.
The Italo Greeks have a monastery out side of Rome.(moved from Sicily because of the muslim invasion) Santa Maria Grataferrata (spelling I’m sure wrong). The monastery I believe is an exarchate.
The Italo Albanians have two Bishops, one in Calabria the other in Sicily. These Bishops appear to be in union both with Rome and Constantinople.
The Albanians fled to Italy to escape a Muslim invasion in Albania.

 

[rdorseyhsd]

At one time there was a specially authorized Bishop in Naples for the purpose of ordaining Italo Greek clergy.
The Italo Greeks were founded in the 4th century under Rome. At one time a Byzantine Emperor placed the Italo Greeks under the Patriarch of Constantinople. In the seven hundreds the Italo Greeks were disbursed by the Muslims. When the Lombards drove out the Muslims they replaced the Greek Bishops with Latin Bishops. Perhaps there are 50,000 Italo Greeks in southern Italy today. It was hard for Italo Greeks to retain their identity in the new world. There is one Byzantine Catholic Italo Greek Church in the United States under a Ruthenium Bishop.

 

[malphono]

There is one Byzantine Catholic Italo Greek Church in the United States under a Ruthenium Bishop.

Are there still not 2 in the US? There was one in New York under the Latin ordinary.

 

[rdorseyhsd]

I believe the one in New York ended a long time ago when the pastor died. That Church was thoroughly Romanized even having Stations of the Cross. There is a website for an Italo Greek Shrine on Staten Island. But I do not believe any liturgy is celebrated there. Any Liturgy in New York would have to be in a borrowed church.

 

[Vico]

The Byzantine Italo-Greeks were never separated from Rome.
The Italo Greeks have a monastery out side of Rome.(moved from Sicily because of the muslim invasion) Santa Maria Grataferrata (spelling I’m sure wrong). The monastery I believe is an exarchate.
The Italo Albanians have two Bishops, one in Calabria the other in Sicily. These Bishops appear to be in union both with Rome and Constantinople.
The Albanians fled to Italy to escape a Muslim invasion in Albania.

Some of my history notes are:

Italo-Greek:
The byzantinization of southern Italy began during the reign of Emperor Justinian I (527-565).
Leo the Isaurian (reigned 717-741) took Illyria, Calabria and Sicily from Papal jurisdiction and placed these areas under the authority of the patriarch of Constantinople.
Nilus of Rossano, founded the monastery of Santa Maria di Grottaferrata (near Rome) in 1004.

Norman Conquest:
Conquest of the Abruzzo, 1053–1105
Conquest of Sicily, 1061–1091
Conquest of Amalfi and Salerno, 1073–1077
Byzantine-Norman wars, 1059–1085
Conquest of Naples, 1077–1139
The Italo-Greeks remained under Constantinople’s jurisdiction until the Normans re-established the jurisdiction of the pope in the 11th century. Papal treaties: Treaty of Treaty of Melfi 1059. Treaty of Ceprano 1080.

Italo-Albanian:
The Albanians migrated to Italy after the Council of Florence (1439).
The liturgy is now in Albanian.
Santa Maria di Grottaferrata remains (Italo-Greek).

 

[rdorseyhsd]

Vico is accurate

 

[Paul_theApostle]

Another Question -

Do all the Eastern Catholics celebrate Easter on the same date as the Orthodox?

And when the Latins celebrate on a different date ,do the Eastern Caths get involved in that celebration also or concelebrate with the latin?

thanks

 

[Vico]

Another Question -

Do all the Eastern Catholics celebrate Easter on the same date as the Orthodox?

And when the Latins celebrate on a different date ,do the Eastern Caths get involved in that celebration also or concelebrate with the latin?

thanks

No, there are three calendars in use, with two different Paschal Cycles.
Julian Paschal Cycle:
J is used by many Orthodox and Greek Catholic Churches
Civil Paschal Cycle:
G is used by some Orthodox and many Greek Catholic Churches
M is used by many Orthodox and some Greek Catholic Churches

J. Julian (Old Calendar):
Paschal Cycle is Julian
Fixed Feasts are civil + 13 days

M. Mixed Calendar:
Paschal Cycle is civil
Fixed Feasts are civil

G. Gregorian (New Calendar):
Paschal Cycle is civil
Fixed Feasts are civil

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Another Question -

Do all the Eastern Catholics celebrate Easter on the same date as the Orthodox?

And when the Latins celebrate on a different date ,do the Eastern Caths get involved in that celebration also or concelebrate with the latin?

thanks

Depends on what country the Church is in.

In the United States most, if not all, celebrate Easter on the same date as the Latin Church but I am aware that the Melkites are thinking of changing this.

 

[ciero]

Vico is accurate

When I was in S Italy last year the Liturgy was in a mixture of Greek & Italian. NO ALBANIAN. The people claim to descend from the Greeks who originally occupied Southern Italy during ancient times.

 

[Paul_theApostle]

Depends on what country the Church is in.

In the United States most, if not all, celebrate Easter on the same date as the Latin Church but I am aware that the Melkites are thinking of changing this.

I thought that the Eastern catholics practice the same spirituality as the Orthodox?

I know the Orthodox think the Latins have moved away from the Ecumenical Councils decision regarding when to celebrate Easter.

Its just that some people here have recomended going to the Eastern Catholic church to worship with Orthodox or Eastern spirituality but be in communion with Rome.

But wouldnt your Theology be different from the Orthodox because you dont believe the same as the Orthodox in regards to Latin theology?

like Either you are Orthodox or Catholic in your belief?

 

[ConstantineTG]

But wouldnt your Theology be different from the Orthodox because you dont believe the same as the Orthodox in regards to Latin theology?

The only difference is that Eastern Catholics generally accept Roman Catholic theology as valid, even though its expressed differently than ours. But in both cases (EC an EO), it has nothing to do directly with our own spirituality, so how would that be any different in matters of Eastern Spirituality?

 

[Paul_theApostle]

The only difference is that Eastern Catholics generally accept Roman Catholic theology as valid, even though its expressed differently than ours. But in both cases (EC an EO), it has nothing to do directly with our own spirituality, so how would that be any different in matters of Eastern Spirituality?

well you would be celebrating Easter on a date thats unacceptable to Orthodox spirituality ,i mean, the resurection of Jesus u can say is the whole point of our Spirituality and spiritual life,for us to rise with Christ,

also from the Orthodox persspective they dont consider Latin theology valid ,whereas you do and likely hold them as true,this would be a different kind of belief to the Orthdox who see them as false or heretical,

If u believed Latin teaching was heretical then youd probably be with the Orthodox ,as they practice not uniting or being in communion with those who they believe to be heretics,

The same Rite of worship though

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I thought that the Eastern catholics practice the same spirituality as the Orthodox?

I do not see the actual date of Easter being a part of spirituality.

well you would be celebrating Easter on a date thats unacceptable to Orthodox spirituality ,i mean, the resurection of Jesus u can say is the whole point of our Spirituality and spiritual life,for us to rise with Christ,

Yes, the point of Easter being a rising with Christ is a matter of spirituality.

I just fail to see that the date one chooses to celebrate this on as being a matter of spirituality.

Maybe you can explain this to me.

 

[Cavaradossi]

I do not see the actual date of Easter being a part of spirituality.

Yes, the point of Easter being a rising with Christ is a matter of spirituality.

I just fail to see that the date one chooses to celebrate this on as being a matter of spirituality.

Maybe you can explain this to me.

Good luck, we’ve been asking the Old-Calendarists to do that for decades.

 

[Paul_theApostle]

well theres this council in 1583 although not Ecumenical. of the Eastern Churches-

orthodox.net/ecumenism/sigillion-council-constantinople-1583.html

And i think the first Ecumenical council which layed down the method and time Pascha is to be celebrated,

and as the councils do,they curse or give Anathema to those who practice otherwise what the councils say…

Orthodox believe Rome has gone away from the Ecumenical councils decision on the date of Pascha,

therefore under the anathema also,

…Not saying anyway that any latin or whoever praying to Christ on whichever Easter may not be heard or recieve Gods Mercy,

God is in Charge i think and works however he wants,

maybe a latin or yourself have had the best Easter experience ever,

just saying the Orthodox experience may be different ,and naturally it would be on a spiritual level…if any of those councils hold any bearing…

or if what the Orthodox believe has any bearing…

they do have the Holy Light in Jerusalem for something…

Christ hear us

Lord save us all…

 

[5Loaves]

Depends on what country the Church is in.

In the United States most, if not all, celebrate Easter on the same date as the Latin Church but I am aware that the Melkites are thinking of changing this.

Our Lady of Fatima Russian Byzantine Catholic Church celebrates the Paschal season on the Julian (“Old”) Calendar. If it’s true that most ECC/OCCs in the US do not celebrate the Paschal season with our Orthodox Churches that is truly disappointing.

 

[5Loaves]

No, there are three calendars in use, with two different Paschal Cycles.
Julian Paschal Cycle:
J is used by many Orthodox and Greek Catholic Churches
Civil Paschal Cycle:
G is used by some Orthodox and many Greek Catholic Churches
M is used by many Orthodox and some Greek Catholic Churches

J. Julian (Old Calendar):
Paschal Cycle is Julian
Fixed Feasts are civil + 13 days

M. Mixed Calendar:
Paschal Cycle is civil
Fixed Feasts are civil

G. Gregorian (New Calendar):
Paschal Cycle is civil
Fixed Feasts are civil

What is the difference between “M” and “G”?

My parish uses the “The Revised Julian ‘New’ Calendar with selected ‘Old Calendar’ notations” put out by St. Tikhon’s Seminary Press.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

well theres this council in 1583 although not Ecumenical. of the Eastern Churches-

No council after the Great Schism can be said to be “of the Eastern Churches”.

If the council was held by the Orthodox then the Eastern Catholics were not present or represented. If the council was Catholic then the Orthodox were not present or represented.

It is a said state but we Eastern Catholics are not in communion with our Orthodox brethren.

Our Lady of Fatima Russian Byzantine Catholic Church celebrates the Paschal season on the Julian (“Old”) Calendar. If it’s true that most ECC/OCCs in the US do not celebrate the Paschal season with our Orthodox Churches that is truly disappointing.

Why?

Also isn’t Easter a movable feast, that is it does not fall on a fixed date so what calendar a Church uses, be it Old Calendar (Julian), revised Julian, or New Calendar (Gregorian), Easter could be celebrated by them all on the same date.

It is my understanding that what differs between the Orthodox Churches and the Catholic Church is how the calculation to figure out the date is done.

It is important to note that some Latin Churches, like those in Egypt, celebrate Easter on the date that the Orthodox do, so even the day it is celebrated is not uniform within the Latin Church.

Again I ask, why is the date it is celebrated on so important. How does the actual date work into our spirituality as opposed to the fact that we are celebrating Easter.

 

[Paul_theApostle]

The Latins changed the date around 500 years ago or changed the calender for feast days and the Pascha cycle…

the Pascha calender was made in the first Ecumenical council,the Latins changed the date going against the council…

So are the Latins celebrating Pascha at the right time according to the Ecu Council,no.

So for the benefit of ones spiritual life in Christ ,do they want to celebrate according to the right date or not?

According to the Council…

read about first council

this is Orthodox perspective anyhow from what i know,if im wrong forgive me