Some questions about original sin

[Shana]

I have a few questions about original sin and was wondering if anyone had some insight they could give me. Before I get into them I want to say that I know original sin is real and the Catholic Church is true so this isn’t a challenge or anything, just faith seeking understanding.

1. People say that God didn’t have to save us, but it seems to me if we were born in a state separated from Him it wouldn’t have been fair or just for Him not to give us a chance to be reconciled with Him, especially because we didn’t choose to be born with a corrupt nature. It seems that it would be out of keeping with God’s wisdom, justice and goodness to do this.
2. If Adam and Eve never sinned and transmitted their nature to us would we not have been able to sin just as now we can’t help but sin because of the fallen nature they have transmitted to us? How does free will play into this? Or if they didn’t sin but their descendants were able to sin how would it work if one or two people sinned and created a break off branch of humanity with original sin while the rest of humanity was free from sin? How would that work?

I could probably come up with other questions but I’ll leave these ones for now. Thanks!

 

[quasimodo]

I have a few questions about original sin and was wondering if anyone had some insight they could give me. Before I get into them I want to say that I know original sin is real and the Catholic Church is true so this isn’t a challenge or anything, just faith seeking understanding.

1. People say that God didn’t have to save us, but it seems to me if we were born in a state separated from Him it wouldn’t have been fair or just for Him not to give us a chance to be reconciled with Him, especially because we didn’t choose to be born with a corrupt nature. It seems that it would be out of keeping with God’s wisdom, justice and goodness to do this.
2. If Adam and Eve never sinned and transmitted their nature to us would we not have been able to sin just as now we can’t help but sin because of the fallen nature they have transmitted to us? How does free will play into this? Or if they didn’t sin but their descendants were able to sin how would it work if one or two people sinned and created a break off branch of humanity with original sin while the rest of humanity was free from sin? How would that work?

I could probably come up with other questions but I’ll leave these ones for now. Thanks!

I wonder what happened to my first response to this post. If you see ii floating out there some where, please send it home.

1. God did not have to save us, but due to God’s justice, mercy, and love he wanted to save us.
2. All humanity was present in Adam & Eve. When they fell all of humanity was affected. If they had not fallen we would be different. We would still have free will, but no damage. If someone chose to sin (in a world where Adam & Eve had not fallen), it would not effect any negative changes in others, and it’s affect would be very different as well. In short, without the Fall, a sinner would fall alone; with the Fall, sinners tend to fall on others.

These are only opinions. I am unaware of any contrary Church doctrines.

 

[broski234]

I have a few questions about original sin and was wondering if anyone had some insight they could give me. Before I get into them I want to say that I know original sin is real and the Catholic Church is true so this isn’t a challenge or anything, just faith seeking understanding.

1. People say that God didn’t have to save us, but it seems to me if we were born in a state separated from Him it wouldn’t have been fair or just for Him not to give us a chance to be reconciled with Him, especially because we didn’t choose to be born with a corrupt nature. It seems that it would be out of keeping with God’s wisdom, justice and goodness to do this.
2. If Adam and Eve never sinned and transmitted their nature to us would we not have been able to sin just as now we can’t help but sin because of the fallen nature they have transmitted to us? How does free will play into this? Or if they didn’t sin but their descendants were able to sin how would it work if one or two people sinned and created a break off branch of humanity with original sin while the rest of humanity was free from sin? How would that work?

I could probably come up with other questions but I’ll leave these ones for now. Thanks!

Because as Luke 9:23 says we must deny ourselves and take up our cross daily. We preach Christ crucified because in this life, we can identify more with Christ suffering than we can with his resurection. Free will gives us the choice. The bible says that no one can take you out of the hands of God (not word for word) and this is true. However, nobody can pull YOU from God’s hands, but you yourself can through free will. I’m not sure I follow your last two questions.

 

[Nita]

I have a few questions about original sin and was wondering if anyone had some insight they could give me. Before I get into them I want to say that I know original sin is real and the Catholic Church is true so this isn’t a challenge or anything, just faith seeking understanding.

1. If Adam and Eve never sinned and transmitted their nature to us would we not have been able to sin just as now we can’t help but sin because of the fallen nature they have transmitted to us? How does free will play into this? Or if they didn’t sin but their descendants were able to sin how would it work if one or two people sinned and created a break off branch of humanity with original sin while the rest of humanity was free from sin? How would that work?

Hi Shana,

First, let me say that since the whole scenario is hypothetical, and will/has never existed in actuality, any responses are only hypothetical musings.

Second, I’ve asked myself some of the same hypothetical questions. So, here are just some of the idle questions and thoughts that have crossed my mind during these musings.

Since God knew and intended that “the fall” would occur with the first couple He created, did He choose the weakest souls to inhabit those first two bodies (so a fall would not occur at a later point in time when they would have lived) - or did He choose to place the strongest souls in the first two bodies, so we human beings could never gripe that things would have been different if…???

Was the reason God decreed that the choice of only one man, Adam, would determine the state of all future human beings (knowing he would fall, etc.) because God intended to become man only once to redeem us. (Sort of like, one extremely grave sin, - and one extremely amazing act to repair it.) Adam was created in a perfect state - physically, mentally, spiritually - which made his sin greater than any we commit. If all of us were created in that perfect state, subjected to the same test as Adam, would justice require a similar act of reparation for every one who failed as Adam did? (That’s one of my really far out thoughts.)

There are no answers to your questions or mine. The thoughts pass thru my head now and then, but I know better than to give them any serious credibility. I far prefer seeking answers to questions where there is an answer to be found.

God bless,
Nita

 

[Dameedna]

1. All humanity was present in Adam & Eve.

What do you mean by all humanity being present in adam and eve? Why would we all be present in two humans who existed way before our time and why would we pay the price for their choice when our own will had nothing to do with it?

If someone chose to sin (in a world where Adam & Eve had not fallen), it would not effect any negative changes in others, and it’s affect would be very different as well.

Why is all of humanity not present in us?

Why create 2 humans where all of humanity was present, and the rest of humans where they were only responsible for themselves?

Why the difference? What is the point?

 

[Nita]

There is only One who has the answers to these questions, and so far He has chosen not to reveal the answers - in Scripture or through the Church’s Magisterium. Perhaps in heaven. What we do know is that He created us out of love and everything He has done in human history springs from that love. So, even tho we don’t know why He did things the way He did, we know that the way He did it was the best way for us.

We can speculate as to the “why”, but any possibilities we may come up with should never be held to be “correct”. Even if they were, we could not know it with certainty.

 

[rwoehmke]

Why would we all be present in two humans who existed way before our time and why would we pay the price for their choice when our own will had nothing to do with it?

The point is that Adam and Eve, the first generation of human beings, had been given certain preternatural gifts by their creator. The subsequently sinned and lost those gifts. We as their descendants cannot inherit something they no longer possessed. Instead we inherit the weaknesses of the human condition which are passed down to every generation.

 

[Nita]

What do you mean by all humanity being present in adam and eve? Why would we all be present in two humans who existed way before our time and why would we pay the price for their choice when our own will had nothing to do with it?

Why is all of humanity not present in us?

Why create 2 humans where all of humanity was present, and the rest of humans where they were only responsible for themselves?

Why the difference? What is the point?

According to Scripture: Adam was the first human (formed directly by God from previously created physical “dust from the ground” (Gen 2:7a). His soul came directly from God (not from any pre-existing material) and was infused into his physical body and Adam became a living being (Gen 2:7b). Amazing how much just one verse of Scripture can contain!

Eve’s origin was different from Adam’s. She was formed from existing human flesh - Adam’s.
Thus, thru procreation, you can trace the original source of ALLhuman beings back to Adam and Eve. But, since Eve came from Adam, the absolutely first human source of our race is Adam. It is interesting that it is the male that contains both the X and the Y chromosome. In other words, the presence and possibility of both male and female descendents exists in the male sperm (which can contains both X/female determining or Y/male determining chromosomes), but not in the female ovum (which is always X). You might say that it is only in a male that both genders are “present”/represented.

Only Adam did not have a human source for his flesh. Thus, the original source for all humans was contained in the reproductive capabilities present in Adam.

It is also generally taught (altho, I don’t think it’s at the doctrinal level) that Adam was aware that he was a representative of the whole human race; that his actions would effect all who would be born afterwards.

No one since Adam (not even Noah) can be said to have all humanity present in them. Noah was never the ONLY living human from which all subsequent humans derived their human flesh. Using logic, it should be easy for you to see why you cannot say all humanity is present in you – as it’s human source.

Nita