Some questions

[SpiritFire]

Hi!

I am about to attend my first “real-live” Extraordinary Form Mass on Pentecost!!
Gregorian chant, Franz Schubert’s Mass in G…
I sure hope there is no organ accompaniment during the Propers (or the ordinary, for that matter, but I’m expecting accompaniment) …yuck!!
Tertial harmony + overdone organ + Chant = unauthentic and distasteful to me.
With the growing use of Chant, there is probably going to be more chant with organ…something I’ll just have to get used to, I guess. Chant with organ is still chant and is better than no chant.
But anyway,

A couple questions:

Should/can people make the sign of the cross when the priest does, i.e., during the prayers at the foot of the altar, (Sign of the Cross and Indulgentiam)
at the end of the Gloria, Credo and at the Benedictus qui venit?
These are all marked in my missal. (There are also those marked in when the priest blesses the sacrifice during the mass)
Do all make the small + on forehead, lips and breast at the gospel (assuming yes)?
I’m just going to go along with the crowd, kneeling, standing, sitting, of course.

ALSO:

Are the readings proclaimed in Latin at all (this is the main question of this post)?
I heard they could be sung in latin and then read or sung in the vernacular, but with the liturgical reforms I’m going to guess they’d be in vernacular only.
Does it depend on the parish?
I sure hope they are in Latin… I love them sung in Latin…

Anyway, just thought I’d ask. Thanks!

So excited to assist at my first EF!

 

[corsair]

Our FSSP parish has a very good choir (and getting better with each High Mass).

The Propers are chanted as are the Ordinaries. There is some Polyphony; Processional, during communion and recessional.

Yes, the Epistle and Gospel are read in Latin BUT then, after the priest removes the maniple he advances to the ambo where he’ll read the Epistle in the vernacular and then the Gospel in the vernacular. He then gives the homily.

During the High Mass, the Epistle and Gospel and chanted (sung) in latin.

You won’t be disappointed. Unless, of course, you have a Diocesan priest thats a little “loosey goosey”, which happens on ocassions with a priest that is unsure of himself and just learning the Mass.

Let us know your impressions when you get back from Mass.

 

[GloriousOrder]

Schubert’s G major is my favourite of the short, simple Mass settings! I praise you and glorify you for this great privilege, friend!

I believe the Sign of the Cross at the Introibo is reserved for the celebrant and his servers. Speaking neutrally, there is a reason why Sacrosanctum Concilium suggested more “participation” on the part of the laity. The Council Fathers seem to have felt that this segregation of the opening Sign to the sanctuary (like the Sign of Peace) excluded everyone beyond the altar rail. Technically-speaking, only the priest and his servers have to say the verse and response; now, I may be wrong, but this rule probably applies to the “Dominus vobiscum”, the inclination during the “mea culpa”, and the Sign at the conclusion of cum Sancto Spiritu in gloria Dei Patris and et vitam venturi saeculi.

Using my logic alone, I’d say the laity should not make the threefold Sign when the deacon/priest says “Lectio Sancti Evangelii secundum…”, because he’s signing himself and asking God’s blessing to read the Gospel. Since no one in the pews is going to be reading the Book of Gospels, it seems reasonable to assume that they shouldn’t make the liturgical signs concurrent therewith. Heck, most of us won’t even be able to see the Book, let alone the Lectionary and the Sacramentary. Go to the holy Mass to pray with our Lord and to receive Him most fully indeed. You don’t need to participate when you’re in the silence of contemplation.

 

[Will_S]

I am about to attend my first “real-live” Extraordinary Form Mass on Pentecost!!
Gregorian chant, Franz Schubert’s Mass in G…
I sure hope there is no organ accompaniment during the Propers (or the ordinary, for that matter, but I’m expecting accompaniment) …yuck!!
Tertial harmony + overdone organ + Chant = unauthentic and distasteful to me.
With the growing use of Chant, there is probably going to be more chant with organ…something I’ll just have to get used to, I guess. Chant with organ is still chant and is better than no chant.

I’m not familiar with Schubert’s Mass in G (at least, I don’t know that I am) but I would expect anything by Schubert to be accompanied with (at least!) an organ.

However, it is not unusual to have unaccompanied chanted propers in an orchestral Mass.

Should/can people make the sign of the cross when the priest does, i.e., during the prayers at the foot of the altar, (Sign of the Cross and Indulgentiam)
at the end of the Gloria, Credo and at the Benedictus qui venit? These are all marked in my missal.

They usually do.

(There are also those marked in when the priest blesses the sacrifice during the mass)

That is not the regular sign of the cross, but a cross made over the host & chalice. You don’t do this along with the priest.

Do all make the small + on forehead, lips and breast at the gospel (assuming yes)?

yes

I’m just going to go along with the crowd, kneeling, standing, sitting, of course.

Good idea. Just make sure not to sit in the front row if that’s your plan.

Are the readings proclaimed in Latin at all (this is the main question of this post)?
I heard they could be sung in latin and then read or sung in the vernacular, but with the liturgical reforms I’m going to guess they’d be in vernacular only.
Does it depend on the parish?
I sure hope they are in Latin… I love them sung in Latin…

The recent document Universae Ecclesiae makes it clear that the readings must be chanted in Latin in a Missa Cantata or in a Solemn Mass. In a Low Mass, the readings may be read only in the vernacular. However, in most places they are read in Latin, and then re-read in the vernacular at the beginning of the sermon.

 

[SpiritFire]

Quote;
You won’t be disappointed. Unless, of course, you have a Diocesan priest thats a little “loosey goosey”, which happens on ocassions with a priest that is unsure of himself and just learning the Mass.

Let us know your impressions when you get back from Mass.

No way!! Not loosey goosey at all. (Of course I don’t really know that, but from what I gather from his sermons on the liturgy and photos of his liturgies it’s very formal, faithful to the rubrics, and traditional in all respects.)

I mean, he even celebrates his OF Masses ad orientem and uses the communion rail, paten, etc.
So no worries there I’ll be sure to give my impressions about the EF, though! Thanks for replying.

Quote: by Will S
That is not the regular sign of the cross, but a cross made over the host & chalice. You don’t do this along with the priest.

Well, yeah of course not. What would that be, lay-concelebration or something?:tsktsk:

Glad to hear about the readings, too!!

GloriousOrder, I’ll be sure to remember you as I pray Schubert’s Mass.
God’s Peace and Blessing be upon you, friend!

Thanks again.

 

[Danquayle76]

It’s my understanding the old rubrics do not discuss what actions the laity should be performing during the mass at all. When the laity kneels, sits, stands, and does the sign of the cross is based off tradition not any specific guideline. Thus, especially with the sign of the cross, you see a lot of diversity among congregations.

Personally, I cross myself six times during the low mass, and and five times during a high mass:

Low Mass:

1. First Absolution
2. Gospel (triple sign of the cross)
3. Second Absolution
4. After receiving the Eucharist
5. Benediction
6. Last Gospel (triple sign of the cross)

High Mass:

1. Gospel (triple sign of the cross)
2. Second Absolution
3. After receiving the Eucharist
4. Benediction
5. Last Gospel (triple sign of the cross)

The reason I don’t cross myself during the first absolution during the High Mass is that I usually don’t notice it because the Introit is playing.

 

[SpiritFire]

I write this on Pentecost night for those who asked…

I have had an amazing day!!

The EF Mass at Assumption Grotto Catholic Church in Detroit…well, it was PERFECT.

The Music…Absolutely wonderful and perfect.
The ceremony…perfect.
The spirit of the whole celebration…perfect.
the sights…wow!
and the smells…wonderful!
Communion…most sacred and beautiful. (i.e., the prayer Corpus Domini nostri Jesu Christi custodiat animam tuam in vitam aeternam. Amen.)

And the celebrant…None other than the infamous Father Zuldorf. Great homily, too.
I have heard of him before…and when he turned around, I said to myself ‘This man is familiar’. Then I recognized him…
I also sang the ENTIRE divine office (EF), which was really awesome!
I have actually exhausted the church’s liturgy for today!

Anyway, thought I would let you know my impressions…

God Bless you all! Thanks be to God for the gift of the most Holy Spirit, may he be praised “in saecula saeculorum. AMEN!”