** Valke, A very good example, could be applied to Sarah and Hagar. Hagar was loved (not hated) by Abraham. If at all, I do not believe that, even sarah hated Hagar. Hagar had the first borne. Look into this matter and one will find that Ishmael was to inherit the upper hand, being the first born. I wish the quotation of verse Dev 21:15 was complete.**Devirm 21:15 If a man have two wives, the one beloved, and the other hated, and they have borne him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the first-born son be hers that was hated;
** Severntofall, please do not discuss sin with Muslims. Your logic is flawed. According to the christian beliefs, even sleeping with the wife is a sin. After having sex with wife, one has to line up outside the church for confession of sin. Why is that?**He had sex with a non-consenting “slave”. The fact that it doesn’t bother you that he owned slaves is twisted enough; the fact that you don’t realize that having sex with a person who has no say in the matter is rape is sad given the fact that you are a woman yourself.
Cathopologist, you cannot deny the problems of your faith. If any one tells the truth then you try to disown him/her. There are many sects in christianity who believe and practice polygamy. I cannot remember their names, like they are many (like Mormons) in Amerika. Do not deny and do not call them all Heretics.Surely you are smart enough to know this is not what the Christian faith nor the Catholic Church teaches? Its abit like asking Mirza Ghulam Ahmad to interpret the Qu’ran.
This is so wrong it borders on being a malicious lie. Please tell us where you found this information.** Severntofall, please do not discuss sin with Muslims. Your logic is flawed. According to the christian beliefs, even sleeping with the wife is a sin. After having sex with wife, one has to line up outside the church for confession of sin. Why is that?**
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Okay, lets see…famdigy, hamba2han, Muslim Woman, Sister Amy, paarsurrey, whoever is an active Muslim member of this forum, do you think planten’s claim is true? What offer of advice would you give to planten?** Severntofall, please do not discuss sin with Muslims. Your logic is flawed. According to the christian beliefs, even sleeping with the wife is a sin. After having sex with wife, one has to line up outside the church for confession of sin. Why is that?**
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Only Muslims would recognize Mormons as a ‘Christian’ sect. Christianity on the other hand, does not accept any religion that practices polygamy as ‘Christian’. Christians do think Mormons are heretics, just as mainstream Islam sees Ahmadiyya’s as heretics.Cathopologist, you cannot deny the problems of your faith. If any one tells the truth then you try to disown him/her. There are many sects in christianity who believe and practice polygamy. I cannot remember their names, like they are many (like Mormons) in Amerika. Do not deny and do not call them all Heretics.
You know, you are proof why Westerners distrust and dislike Muslim immigrants, and why they are against the building of mosques and madrasahs. I don’t think anyone, let alone Westerners can tolerate the next planten that emerges from such mosques and madrasahs.** J C, do not be so upset. I had observed it and heard it in England. I had seen the ladies line up for confession. I did not read it any where.**
But your principle that a new born child is sinful. Can you please tell me why is he sinful. Unless the act of the meeting (Mating) of husband and wife be a sinful act. Tell me why the child is sinful. It must be the result of some sinful act.
possibly be deserving of a response like this?J C, do not be so upset. I had observed it and heard it in England. I had seen the ladies line up for confession. I did not read it any where.
But your principle that a new born child is sinful. Can you please tell me why is he sinful. Unless the act of the meeting (Mating) of husband and wife be a sinful act. Tell me why the child is sinful. It must be the result of some sinful act.
???You know, you are proof why Westerners distrust and dislike Muslim immigrants, and why they are against the building of mosques and madrasahs. I don’t think anyone, let alone Westerners can tolerate the next planten that emerges from such mosques and madrasahs.
Why don’t you do a search on every reply planten responds to in this forum before jumping the gun? Ask anyone here who has known him long enough. He fabricates and exaggerates almost everything.Could someone explain to me how in the name of all things holy, in thread titled “Some Respectfull Questions for Muslims”… how could an honest, yet possibly uninformed question like this…
possibly be deserving of a response like this?
???
Please don’t give me that holier-than-thou, halos-and-wings stuff. I know my limits and i said that with sentiments mirrored from Western friends. It would also amuse you to know i’m not a Westerner myself but i have read enough bigoted slants from the likes of planten to know better. If you wish to defend poor ole planten, go right ahead, but make sure you stick to his side. So we know you’re not sitting on the fence like a liberal humpty dumpty.Oh I know… like I said in another thread I didn’t come here with him. However, your use of that quote does seem somewhat inappropriate to your response.
The History, Discovery and Nat Geo channels all present Islam in the most sensitive way. They are trying to get higher viewer ratings in Muslim dominated countries. As they have discovered, historical revisionism is profitable…
Whereas, Islam tends to make a proselytizing statement out of the hijab, thats why secular governments have a problem with such statements…
Why is Islam so desperate to re-write history for the sake of proselytizing the unsuspecting? Oh wait, i just answered my own question…
Perhaps he and Muslim Woman share the same idols
Originally Posted by cathopologist forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gifHowever while we are on the subject of fabrications and exagerations… would you mind proving any of the following?
Holier than thou? I questioned your logic not your morals?Please don’t give me that holier-than-thou, halos-and-wings stuff.
Yeah I can read your from Singapore.I know my limits and i said that with sentiments mirrored from Western friends. It would also amuse you to know i’m not a Westerner myself
I don’t recall that I was defending him so much as assailing your rather heavy handed response to what should be seen as a perfectly legitimate questioning of the concept of original sin and its pertinence to the subject of forgiveness for the parents.but i have read enough bigoted slants from the likes of planten to know better. If you wish to defend poor ole planten,
I defend the truth as much as possible. And when even my own Pope can say that there is goodness in the religion of Islam I will look for that same goodness whereever and however I can. And it is from celebrations of that shared goodness that I will seek to springboard into dialogue with them. Platen, may have issues, and these may or may not stem from his Muslim heritage or they may just be him. However he is still a child of Allah and created in his image like you and I.go right ahead, but make sure you stick to his side. So we know you’re not sitting on the fence like a liberal humpty dumpty.
You were being patronizing.Holier than thou? I questioned your logic not your morals?
Thank goodness you didn’t think Singapore was part of Hawaii (i hope!)Yeah I can read your from Singapore.
planten knows what he’s talking about and he knows what original sin is about. He’s trying to slant and defame our faith if you do not know him already.I don’t recall that I was defending him so much as assailing your rather heavy handed response to what should be seen as a perfectly legitimate questioning of the concept of original sin and its pertinence to the subject of forgiveness for the parents.
Well, what do you know? I hold the same thoughts as you and other Catholics do. Just because you see some of us getting fed up with trolls, doesn’t mean we are out to burn Muslims at the stake. Sure, we are called to be charitable, but sometimes people forget we have emotions too and sometimes we flare up also. Still, we know who are the sincere Muslim posters and who isn’t. Our debates are always fiery but that doesn’t mean we wish them harm.I defend the truth as much as possible. And when even my own Pope can say that there is goodness in the religion of Islam I will look for that same goodness whereever and however I can. And it is from celebrations of that shared goodness that I will seek to springboard into dialogue with them. Platen, may have issues, and these may or may not stem from his Muslim heritage or they may just be him. However he is still a child of Allah and created in his image like you and I.