Some SSPX questions

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ConstantineTG said:
You shouldn’t. They do not have canonical status right now within the Catholic Church, thus they do not have the right to a public ministry within the Church. So no valid and licit Sacraments, no valid Mass.
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Ohhhhhh, so close to getting it right Constantine, yet you might want to consult your Catholic Encyclopedia for the proper use of the terms you used.

You do have it correct that since the Society has no Canonical status in the Church they do not perform an official Ministry. That we all agree on, as loyal sons of the Pope who published the fact.

However unofficial their Ministry is according to the Pope, they still effect valid Sacraments and the Mass with their jurisdiction supplied by the same Church for those requesting the Sacraments–those who have tired of hearing the official Ministers of the Church preaching in Contradiction to the Faith and Morals.

The phrase you were searching for is ‘valid but illicit.’ Otherwise you would be contradicting Msgr Perl and Cardinal de Hoyos, both of whom were delegates of the Pope who declared a Society Mass as fulfilling one’s Sunday obligation.
 
ConstantineTG said:
They do not have canonical status right now within the Catholic Church, thus they do not have the right to a public ministry within the Church. So no valid and licit Sacraments, no valid Mass.
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The SSPX has a valid Mass. Attendence at their Mass also satisfies one’s Sundy obligation. This is specifically what Msgr. Perl has said on the behalf of the Vatican. Illicit does not equate to in valid. No canonically status or even laicized still permits valid Sacraments* under some circumstances. *
 
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pnewton:
The SSPX has a valid Mass. Attendence at their Mass also satisfies one’s Sundy obligation. This is specifically what Msgr. Perl has said on the behalf of the Vatican. Illicit does not equate to invalid. No canonical status or even laicized still permits valid Sacraments* under some circumstances. *
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A couple of questions I hope you can answer with regard to Msgr. Perl and his letter below …

PONTIFICIA COMMISSIO “ECCLESIA DEI”
N. 539/99 Rome, 28 September 1999

With regard to the schismatic Society of St. Pius X we can say the following:
  1. The priests of the Society of St. Pius X are validly ordained, but suspended, that is prohibited from exercising their priestly functions because they are not properly incardinated in a diocese or religious institute in full communion with the Holy See (cf. canon 265) and also because those ordained after the schismatic episcopal ordinations were ordained by an excommunicated bishop. …]
  2. Concretely this means that the Masses offered by the priests of the Society of St. Pius X are valid, but illicit i.e., contrary to Canon Law. The Sacraments of Penance and Matrimony, however, require that the priest enjoys the faculties of the diocese or has proper delegation. Since that is not the case with these priests, these sacraments are invalid. It remains true, however, that, if the faithful are genuinely ignorant that the priests of the Society of St. Pius X do not have the proper faculty to absolve, the Church supplied these faculties so that the sacrament was valid.
[pnewton, does this mean that those who are no longer ignorant, having been now informed by virtue of this letter, yet continue to receive these sacraments, are invalidly receiving them?]
  1. The situation of the faithful attending chapels of the Society of St. Pius X is more complicated. They may attend Mass there primarily because of an attraction to the earlier form of the Roman Rite in which case they incur no penalty. The difficulty is that the longer they frequent these chapels, the more likely it is that they will slowly imbibe the schismatic mentality which stands in judgment of the Church and refuses submission to the Roman Pontiff and communion with the members of the Church subject to him.
    If that becomes the case, then it would seem that they adhere to the schism and are consequently excommunicated.
For these reasons this Pontifical Commission cannot encourage you to frequent the chapel of the Society of St. Pius X. …]

**
 
Sirach2 said:
  1. Concretely this means that the Masses offered by the priests of the Society of St. Pius X are valid, but illicit i.e., contrary to Canon Law. The Sacraments of Penance and Matrimony, however, require that the priest enjoys the faculties of the diocese or has proper delegation. Since that is not the case with these priests, these sacraments are invalid. It remains true, however, that, if the faithful are genuinely ignorant that the priests of the Society of St. Pius X do not have the proper faculty to absolve, the Church supplied these faculties so that the sacrament was valid.
[pnewton, does this mean that those who are no longer ignorant, having been now informed by virtue of this letter, yet continue to receive these sacraments, are invalidly receiving them?]
That is my understanding.
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Gee, that was a quick response - Thanks for your help. I had thought perhaps a more recent letter may have clarified their status. Interestingly, some have promoted a different impression of Msgr. Perl’s “permission.”
 
Sirach2 said:
Gee, that was a quick response - Thanks for your help. I had thought perhaps a more recent letter may have clarified their status. Interestingly, some have promoted a different impression of Msgr. Perl’s “permission.”
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The phrase “They may attend Mass there” means it is a genuine permission. There is no need to put it in quotes. They are however not encouraged to attend there. He is saying that the faithful are permitted, but not encouraged, to attend these Masses. If anyone tells you that Msgr. Perl say that people ought to go to Masses celebrated by SSPX priests, then you should object. If someone says that his letter gives permission for this attendance, they are correct.
 
floresco said:
The phrase “They may attend Mass there” means it is a genuine permission. There is no need to put it in quotes. They are however not encouraged to attend there. He is saying that the faithful are permitted, but not encouraged, to attend these Masses. If anyone tells you that Msgr. Perl say that people ought to go to Masses celebrated by SSPX priests, then you should object. If someone says that his letter gives permission for this attendance, they are correct.
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This is true, but not as important as some would like to believe. After all, it is also permitted to attend a Protestant or other religious service on any given day. What has never been stated is that it is permitted is to substitute that for your Mass of Sunday obligation. It is true that a letter from Msgr. Camille Perl at PCED said that e beginning words of that sentence: “In the strict sense, you may fulfill your Sunday obligation by attending a Mass celebrated by a priest of the Society of St. Pius X.” But what does “in the strict sense” mean? It means we have to read it in keeping with other pronouncements of the Church, such as this letter (from the same Msgr. Perl) in 1995:
The Masses they celebrate are also valid, but it is considered morally illicit for the faithful to participate in these Masses unless they are physically or morally impeded from participating in a Mass celebrated by a Catholic priest in good standing (cf. Code of Canon Law, canon 844.2). The fact of not being able to assist at the celebration of the so-called “Tridentine” Mass is not considered a sufficient motive for attending such Masses.
So, “in the strict sense” you can meet your obligation with an SSPX Mass if you can’t get to a canonically accepted Mass. In the more general sense of whether SSPX Masses are interchangeable with regular Masses based on how you feel that day, just wanting to go to one “is not considered a sufficient motive.”
 
floresco said:
I am familiar with older sources that say it is not permitted. Could you please cite some that say it is?
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Here would be two examples: [1], [2], which I provide by virtue of having been able to find them quickly. If you’d like to look for more specific references you can check this Vatican document. As you must know intuitively, at a minimal level there is no prohibition on attending, for instance, the wedding of two Jewish friends in a Jewish service.

Of course I think it’s a bad idea to attend any Protestant service. But, correspondingly, the Church thinks it’s a bad idea to attend any SSPX service.
 
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