Somebody toss me a lifeline

  • Thread starter Thread starter mariainman
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

mariainman

Guest
My daughter who was brought up Catholic got married outside the church on Saturday. After numerous arguments about why she was marrying this way…I decided to go to her wedding(I was also advised to go by my priest). Her excuses have gone from “I am not a Catholic anymore"to “I am young(25) and do not know if my husband will be faithful”.I was told by my priest that he would not be able to marry them knowing what he does. She does not go to Church regularly and she does not (at this time ) intend to have more children. She already has a two year old with her new husband.
This wedding has torn my family apart. My mother(85) would not go. My convert father and husband did not see the big deal. They thought we should all go because we love the girl. I have made some internal concessions to attend this wedding and to appear happy for the couple. But I am not happy. I have been on the verge of tears since the wedding day. My daughter called to say she was happy” I came around "and that now we could be closer. Emotionally I am upset and I do not feel closer to my daughter. My question now is do I continue this pretense that has caused our relationship some peace?. Do i distance myself so as not to exert my opinions?Do I consider her married?Do I try to stuff my emotions and religious beliefs to become closer to my daughter and if so how do I do this.And last…Do i have moral obligations here?
 
40.png
mariainman:
After numerous arguments about why she was marrying this way…I decided to go to her wedding(I was also advised to go by my priest). Her excuses have gone from "I am not a Catholic anymore"to “I am young(25) and do not know if my husband will be faithful”.

My question now is do I continue this pretense that has caused our relationship some peace?. Do i distance myself so as not to exert my opinions?Do I consider her married?Do I try to stuff my emotions and religious beliefs to become closer to my daughter and if so how do I do this.And last…Do i have moral obligations here?
Click to expand...
Your daughter’s comment about marrying him outside the Catholic church because she doesn’t know if he will stay raises a thought I’d not considered before, and which may help you find a way to get through this…

If one doesn’t believe they can keep the vow - 'til death do us part - then you and I know it’s best not to marry at all, but, is it better to go with a civil (legal) marriage knowing what she knows, than entering into a covenant?

Wouldn’t it have been a worse sin to have married in the Catholic Church sacramentally knowing the marriage might not last? I couldn’t imagine taking vows before God I didn’t intend to keep…I would think that would be a particular offense to God (who knows her heart), and it sounds as though she’s bracing herself for the day her husband will be unfaithful - leaving herself an ‘out’.

You said her 2 year old child is hers by her husband, which means they’ve already been sleeping together, basically, living in a state of sin. So you’ve had to deal with this state of her life for at least 3 years now, right?

Seems to me she is in no worse state of life married to the man than she was when she was in relations with him outside marriage. As far as the Catholic church is concerned, there hasn’t been a change in her spiritual status in that regard. I mean, the Church wouldn’t recognize it as a valid marriage so it would be viewed the same as if they were just living together outside of marriage.

I don’t see why your relationship with her would need to be any different now than it was before her marriage. I would continue to pray for her. Love her** unconditionally**, as a mother should. That’s the real hard part, isn’t it. You can’t be a part of her reversion to Catholicism down the road if you cut off contact with her now.

How do you do this? Pray to St. Anne and to Mary. And remember, it’s not about you…it’s not about how you feel, whether it’s good or bad, or rejected, or insulted…it’s about HER. You want to do everything you can to save her soul. I should think you need to remain close to her in order to do that. And you do that by being patient, kind and loving. God will lead her home.
 
Be thankful they were married in a Christian Church and not a Wiccan or other pagan ceremonies!🙂 The Church recognises Christian marriages as valid marriages.

Ok, pray for your daughter and her new husband and love them as Jesus does. Pray that they come back to the Church and also talk to them about it subtlely. Communicate with her, keep the lines open.
 
It seems like you need an intercessor. My vote is for St.Monica. She prayed forty years for her son, Augustine who later became a saint and doctor in the church and he lived an immoral life many years before he came to know and love the church. Anything is possible with God. Keep praying. That is why God gave her to you in the first place. Do not compromise your own beliefs for your daughter either. But you do not have to use it to build a wall between you. Christ was a bridge builder and you can be one as well. Pray and pray always. You hopefully will see her change her ways as she gets older and begins to appreciate how much she is missing living outside of the church. Pray also for her new husband and child. Perhaps the child will bring her back to the faith. We can only work to plant seeds and hope some lands on fertile soil. God be with you in this worthwhile effort.
 
As another poster pointed out, they have been living together for around 3 years. Since the Church will not recognize her marraige, her position hasn’t changed; so why not treat her the same as you did before the marriage?

Also, her being married to her baby’s father, under civil law, gives her and your grandbaby legal protections they wouldn’t have otherwise. so that’s an improvement.

You said that her excuses have gone from "I am not a Catholic anymore"to “I am young (25) and do not know if my husband will be faithful”.

I find this hopeful! Since she is looking for excuses, it means her conscience is still alive.

So hang in there and keep praying. I ask St. Jude to intercede for and pray for my sister, the Jehovah’s Witness. She’s been with them for 35 years…
 
Yes, you have moral obligations. After all, she is your daughter and her child is your grand child.

I hate to sound like a broken record, but I recommend love and prayer. As you pray, meditate on your love for your daughter and grand daughter. Dissolve your anger, disappointment and all other emotions in love. Welcome your new son-in-law like a son.

Whenever you feel upset, don’t dwell on it. Don’t become obsessed with your own emotions – pray and meditate on the love you have for your child and grand child.

Remember, you can only control your own behavior. You must first master yourself before you can even think about gently leading your daughter back to the church.
 
1st rule: quit talking.

She’s an adult. whether you did a good job of raising her Catholic, and she quit, or you did a so-so job of raising her Catholic, or a poor job, from your comments, she got the message. Whether out of fear, or hate, or anger, or stubborness, or emotional attachment to this guy, she has made her own bed. She knows what you think. She got the message. There are more flies drawn to honey than vinegar. You are not going to argue her into changing her position.

Furthermore, some day she and he both may come around. The more you talk, the farther away you drive them. Consider, for a moment, that somewhere down the line they change. How are they going to view the intervening years, and all the arguing you made during that time, the hurt feelings, the rejection. You need to separate out the rejection of their choices from the rejection of them as persons in a way they can understand.

Rule 2: don’t back down on your moral values. That doesn’t mean you harp on it. You don’t need to constantly remind them of their straying, but you need to be very clear that your love of them is not an acceptance of their choices. Tough line to walk. Don’t walk it often (Rule 1) but don’t act like it’s all ok, either.

Rule 3: realize that we are all sinners, we all fall short. That means you, too. What is it in you own life that separates you from Christ? She didn’t abort. She is no longer “shacked up”, so there is at least some attempt to make a marriage. Is the glass half full, or half empty? Are you truly modeling what it means to follow Christ unreservedly, or are you modeling what it means to follow the rules of the Church unreservedly? And don’t misunderstand that last sentance; I am not suggesting that one not follow the rules of the Church; but rather, that following the rules of the Church isn’t what Christ called us to; He asked for more than that.
 
ditto what V.Humphrey wrote. Love and prayer. And be joyful. I have a friend outside the church and her critical and negative mother is the face of the church she sees.
 
Love and pray for her conversion. That is what you must do. Don’t lecture, berate, cry in front of her over this, or try to drive a wedge between her and her new husband. No passive agressive comments allowed…ever.

I know from experience. You see I was once your daughter (figuratively of course.) But Christ called me back, and eventually, I came home. The Holy Spirit me there. It took about fifteen years so don’t expect immediate results.

My Mom did all of above things I’ve suggested you don’t do, and we’re still healing from the terrible hurt…and her behavior only reinforced my negative feelings towards the faith.

What’s more, you have a grandchild that needs a Catholic grandmother. You could certainly win the religious argument and theologically be 100% correct. Whoopy. You win. Now what? Right now, your daughter can’t hear you. Her heart is hardened to the faith. However, take hope in the fact that the seed you planted in her will one day grow if you give it the opportunity to grow. Don’t choke it out with weeds of bitterness. You didn’t do anything wrong…she’s made her own choice.

Love her. Pray for her. Subconsciously she’s testing your faith. Will you live the message of love…or will you be the ogre that she seems to think the faith is? I know it’s hard. Carry this cross with a smile on your face…even if it’s forced. Take lessons from Mother Theresa and St. Monica.

From one re-vert to a mom whose child has strayed…Trust in God.
 
Excellent posts!!!

I LOVE especially Posts # 4 and # 5.

I also like #6 and #7.

All of them.

Pray to Saint Monica. Very important. Pray constantly.

Keep the communications open.

I don’t know about anyone else, but I would never wish to be 25 again.

I shouldn’t say this: “spoil your grandchild”. Not really spoil, but fuss a bit. Make sure your grandchild gets a good education in reading, writing and rithmatic… you can start by reading to your grandchild when visitin and babysitting. Teach your grandchild simple number skills. Simple Baltimore Catechism skills (without getting “political”). Simple prayers.

If you can, get to Daily Mass, if for no other reason than to set an example. You don’t have to advertise or ever mention it, but people will KNOW.

If it helps, go to confession and dump the whole thing on the priest - you don’t know if it’s a sin or not, you get different conflicting stories, but I went to the wedding. It’s over and I need to “be there” for my grandchild (and for my daughter “if she ever comes to her senses”). Dump it on Jesus; He’s Infinite and He can figure it all out and figure out a win-win solution.

Hope this helps.

You’re NOT ALONE, not by any means.

We cry over these issues; we worry about them. The best thing is to pray over them. Tune in to EWTN; people convert (revert) back all the time.
 
40.png
Fox:
Be thankful they were married in a Christian Church and not a Wiccan or other pagan ceremonies!🙂 The Church recognises Christian marriages as valid marriages.

Ok, pray for your daughter and her new husband and love them as Jesus does. Pray that they come back to the Church and also talk to them about it subtlely. Communicate with her, keep the lines open.
Click to expand...
However, such marriages are not valid if we are talking about ex-catholics who have not formally renounced their faith. This is because the Church in her wisdom, has imposed canonical form on her children. Therefore, marriages by ex-Catholics outside of the church are not marriages at all.
 
Thank you everyone for the wonderful advice. I am healing emotionally from the wedding. It feels as though I’m grieving.I’ve had some other things going on in my life such as my 85 yr old mother(who didn’t go to the wedding) is dying of congestive heart failure. My youngest daughter got drunk at her sisters wedding then left the next day for college. And I’ve started menopasue. I’m over stressed and that’s the reason for my “toss me a lifeline”.
I wrote a “from the heart” letter to the Bride and Groom and they read it at the wedding. We had a group hug after. I have new respect for my son-in law now that he has(legally) married my daughter. And I know in my heart that my daughter couldn’t do anything differently at this time in her life. In her defense, she has learning disabilities and so she wires things differently in her brain then my other children did.She left home at 16 just to be on her own and she has been learning about life through some hard knocks.She gives her dad and me alot of credit for how well she has turned out.She owns two houses and is only25. She wants me to be proud of her.
So thank you again and I will continue to pray for her.And I ask that anyone who reads this say a prayer for us too.
 
40.png
mariainman:
My daughter who was brought up Catholic got married outside the church on Saturday. After numerous arguments about why she was marrying this way…I decided to go to her wedding(I was also advised to go by my priest). Her excuses have gone from “I am not a Catholic anymore"to “I am young(25) and do not know if my husband will be faithful”.I was told by my priest that he would not be able to marry them knowing what he does. She does not go to Church regularly and she does not (at this time ) intend to have more children. She already has a two year old with her new husband.
This wedding has torn my family apart. My mother(85) would not go. My convert father and husband did not see the big deal. They thought we should all go because we love the girl. I have made some internal concessions to attend this wedding and to appear happy for the couple. But I am not happy. I have been on the verge of tears since the wedding day. My daughter called to say she was happy” I came around "and that now we could be closer. Emotionally I am upset and I do not feel closer to my daughter. My question now is do I continue this pretense that has caused our relationship some peace?. Do i distance myself so as not to exert my opinions?Do I consider her married?Do I try to stuff my emotions and religious beliefs to become closer to my daughter and if so how do I do this.And last…Do i have moral obligations here?
Click to expand...
Preach the Gospel, use words if necessary.

It is not necessary to give your approval and still love. If I were in this situation with my back against the wall as you seem to be, I would do my best to try to love my child and grandchild so that my faith would become a beacon to them with the hope that it will effect their conversion.
 
Here is what Pope John Paul II said in Familiaris Consortio:
c) Catholics in Civil Marriages
Click to expand...
  1. There are increasing cases of Catholics who for ideological or practical reasons, prefer to contract a merely civil marriage, and who reject or at least defer religious marriage. Their situation cannot of course be likened to that of people simply living together without any bond at all, because in the present case there is at least a certain commitment to a properly-defined and probably stable state of life, even though the possibility of a future divorce is often present in the minds of those entering a civil marriage. By seeking public recognition of their bond on the part of the State, such couples show that they are ready to accept not only its advantages but also its obligations. Nevertheless, not even this situation is acceptable to the Church.
Click to expand...
The aim of pastoral action will be to make these people understand the need for consistency between their choice of life and the faith that they profess, and to try to do everything possible to induce them to regularize their situation in the light of Christian principle. While treating them with great charity and bringing them into the life of the respective communities, the pastors of the Church will regrettably not be able to admit them to the sacraments.
Click to expand...
 
I think you have received very insightful answers from the other posters. I just wanted to share an antecdote with you so you will not lose hope that your daughter will fully return to the church, although it may be without her new husband.

My good friend in college and law school was from a family of 12, she had extremely devout Catholic parents, the whole shebang. She gradually fell away from the Catholic faith during college and by law school was “spiritual” but very anti-Catholic.

After law school she experimented in various new age religions and settled into and was very active in the Unity church, where she felt allowed to think for herself and everyone believed as their conscience led them.

About 2 years ago she called and mentioned having this bizarre pull to mass. She finally went to one, and felt an almost obsessive urge to participate in the eucharist, but didn’t. Eventually she began secretly going to an early mass and then going to service at her Unity church. Finally, she started meeting with a priest and he gave her this enormous reading list, including Scott Hahn, St Augustine and others. She then made her confession and told me it lasted 2 hours and her priest told her it was one of the most* interesting* confessions he had heard. Last Easter, she formally rejoined the church after 15 years and is now in an apologetics course. She is more on fire for her faith now than she ever was against it.

I know her mother prayed daily for her conversion. Her mom stood by her during all of this and sometimes it was very painful, but her mother didn’t stop loving her and never stopped praying for her. I’m sure this was the answer to her mom’s prayers. Please continue to let your daughter know you love her even though you believe she’s wrong and continue to pray for her.
 
This may sound harsh but you have an obligation to God. The Church is the way to God. Therefore your loyalty is to the Church above all. If your own children become insolent to that fact you can’t back down. Your daughter has known all her life who and what you are. Now she has disrespected you. You owe her nothing. She’s an adult and has made an adult decision. I would suggest keeping ties at a mandatory parent/child level, that is, that you should occasionally keep in touch, but your loyalty to her has been compromised by her own actions.

Again, sorry so harsh, but that’s my opinion.
 
We as parents have a tough job, don’t we? I can empathize with you. My daughter became involved with someone who couldn’t have been more wrong for her. From the beginning, I felt strongly that he was “bad news” But try as I might, they stayed together. There relationship, although it has mellowed somewhat, was very volitle. I “lectured” I pleaded etc. to no avail. Enter grand daughter #2. And still they are together. The hardest thing I ever did was to stop trying to change my daughters mind. I figured she was a big girl. I couldn’t do anything for her, and she knows what I will do to protect my grand daughters. So I pray every morning and every afternoon and every evening for the good Lord to watch out for all of them.
~ Kathy ~
 
40.png
Constantine312:
This may sound harsh but you have an obligation to God. The Church is the way to God. Therefore your loyalty is to the Church above all. If your own children become insolent to that fact you can’t back down. Your daughter has known all her life who and what you are. Now she has disrespected you. You owe her nothing. She’s an adult and has made an adult decision. I would suggest keeping ties at a mandatory parent/child level, that is, that you should occasionally keep in touch, but your loyalty to her has been compromised by her own actions.

Again, sorry so harsh, but that’s my opinion.
Click to expand...
Not only harsh, but I would suggest that if you were transported back about 2000 years, and were present when the Pharisees drug the woman caught in adultery to Christ, you would have suggested to Him that He cast that first stone.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top