Someday--there will be priestless parishes?

[Mt_28_19_20]

1. God will take of the Church - so there is absolutely no need to worry. Unless we believe that God is incapable or superannuated

Well said!

 Was listening to a priest on the radio last evening. He commented to the effect that the laity needs to step up to help allieviate this trend of more priestless parishes. Including taking over more of the mundane tasks and responsibilities, freeing the priests to focus on prayer, homilies, and celebrating Mass and hearing confessions.
 So now that there's a shortage it's more acceptable to pass these responsibilties on to the lay members of the parish? At the same time there are numerous priests in mainly administrative positions. Why are these administrative positions not being fulfulled by the laity? Why is Cardinal Rigali's secretary a priest? Is there not a parish he can serve, and have a lay person, or persons, be Cardinal Rigali's secretary?

Michael

 

[Mt_28_19_20]

1. God will take of the Church - so there is absolutely no need to worry. Unless we believe that God is incapable or superannuated

On thinking about this more, yes God will take care of the Church. That does not mean we are not called to respond or to be concerned. We need to believe that God is capable of using us in humble and supernatural ways. God may be sending us a message, perhaps He doesn’t like celibacy? Perhaps He likes how Moses et al led His people while being married?

Michael

 

[patg]

On thinking about this more, yes God will take care of the Church. That does not mean we are not called to respond or to be concerned. We need to believe that God is capable of using us in humble and supernatural ways. God may be sending us a message, perhaps He doesn’t like celibacy?

And just maybe those in power who are opposed to female ordination will realize that the Spirit is moving them to realize they do have the authority to ordain women and/or include them in the magisterium.

 

[AngelicDoctor]

Not really odd at all. In our parish the deacon is the administrator and takes care of the day to day stuff. The priests (one from Mexico, one from India) take care of the spiritual side of the parish.

Again, I recognize that a lot of administrative tasks can be taken over by deacons and laity, and that is fine. However, priests are ordained to have a unique share in the triple munera of Christ: king, prophet, and priest. In the United States for many decades, at least, priests were ordained with an eye to being shepherds of souls as pastors. I am just saying that having a dichotomy whereby priests handle just “the spiritual side” while employees (who–if they are not deacons–have not necessarily made a life-long committment to a diocese and its bishop) take care of the day-to-day stuff. If people only see their priest when he sweeps by on Sundays, it will change the dynamic of the priest’s role in parish leadership (that includes his role in spiritual leadership)… because, the people will not know their priest as well. Just a thought.

 

[debraran]

I believe God wants us to help ourselves. As Pope John Paul ll said, the vocations are there, but no one wants to listen to it because of various reasons. Like the parable of the man on the roof during a flood that wouldn’t take help from a helicopter, boat, etc. because “God will save him” and then drowned, we have to encourage young men and women and keep praying. There might of been more vocations before, but not all the young men and women had a calling, some went into it to please a parent/priest, some to hide their desire not to marry or same-sex attraction, some because of the “3 squares and a bed” and a lot of positive attention. And then there were the devoted and loved priests that were truely living their love of God. Any honest person, nun or priest, will tell you things only looked better on the outside…many factors dictated a vocation which is why so many are down now. That might also be why the community orders are up, the “priestly work” is all the time, you have really nothing, so your motives have to be more direct.

 

[AngelicDoctor]

And just maybe those in power who are opposed to female ordination will realize that the Spirit is moving them to realize they do have the authority to ordain women and/or include them in the magisterium.

The celibacy and women’s ordination possibilities are fruitless points of discussion.

Priestly celibacy is a tradition that could change. I, however, trust the wisdom of the Church in this matter.

Women’s ordination will never happen. Do a search for some of the threads on women’s ordination on these forums. Read the relevant documents that have come out of Rome on this. Basically, Pope JPII put the questions to bed, saying that the Church DOES NOT have the authority to ordain women. And when he made this statement… he was basically exercising papal infallibility.

I have many articles on my personal website where I debated this issue with someone if you are curious:
swallowedscroll.blogspot.com/2007/02/do-you-trust-church-conversation-on.html
(to see all of the articles in this debate,… click on the label entitled “Women Priests?”)

Actually, I think that this is a sad reality. Many theological “progressives” who have had high influence positions within Diocesan curias have actually minimized the need to foster vocations… and even in some cases discouraged some men who have inquired about a priestly vocation because they think that if they let all the priests die out, they can pressure the Church into allowing women priests or married priests. How sad. My home diocese of Rockford is full of many guys who left such liberal dioceses to places where the diocese welcomed them. We are NOT experiencing a shortage… ordaining an average of about 6 or 7 for the last 10 years.

 

[AngelicDoctor]

For a better link:
swallowedscroll.blogspot.com/search/label/women%20priests%3F

But, if anyone wants to bring up the women’s ordination questions, they should probably start a separate thread or do a search for the many threads that already exist on this matter.

 

[whatevergirl]

By the way, I do not mean to disparage leadership by deacons nor the laity. Deacons fulfill much needed roles in catechesis, evangelization, preaching, liturgy, charitable work, etc. I, also, am of the opinion that the laity could use their gifts to do a lot of non-sacramental/administrative things that the priests do not have to do (book-keeping, organizing religious education, etc., leading the plethora of meetings that a priest has to deal with in the modern day diocesan/parish bureaucracy). However, it will be an odd situation when some lay parish administrators start serving as leaders for the parish, including telling the “sacramental priests” what they are to do and not to do.

yeah, that’s true

 

[Chris_McAvoy]

Take a lesson from the Eastern Orthodox Churches for vocations.

 

[scylla]

I am in the Diocese of San Bernardino, and we have several priestless parishes.

It seems like they do not want priests. When there is vocations retreats or events, you sure do not hear anything about it in my parish. You do hear the older folks praying about it in the Rosary but the administration, doesn’t make any outward display of a desire to foster vocations or bring in a Priest.

This is logical as having more priests would destroy the campaign to ordain women priests and this is exactly what people seem to be fighting for in my diocese. Just act like a progressive and they will talk about it, speak like you support orthodoxy and they shut up and just get very quiet.

Maybe I should call the Womens Commission in my Diocese and ask what are they doing to promote vocations.
dwc.sbdiocese.cc/?CFID=2160456&CFTOKEN=15989902

There are plenty of vocations but the people against them seek ways to stop the young men in many ways.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[patg]

The celibacy and women’s ordination possibilities are fruitless points of discussion.

That is true - I don’t care to waste time here on it again. But I will continue to pray for what I think would make the Church better just like those who wanted a return to the old mass prayed for what they thought would make the Church better.

 

[AngelicDoctor]

I am in the Diocese of San Bernardino, and we have several priestless parishes.

It seems like they do not want priests. When there is vocations retreats or events, you sure do not hear anything about it in my parish. You do hear the older folks praying about it in the Rosary but the administration, doesn’t make any outward display of a desire to foster vocations or bring in a Priest.

This is logical as having more priests would destroy the campaign to ordain women priests and this is exactly what people seem to be fighting for in my diocese. Just act like a progressive and they will talk about it, speak like you support orthodoxy and they shut up and just get very quiet.

Maybe I should call the Womens Commission in my Diocese and ask what are they doing to promote vocations.
dwc.sbdiocese.cc/?CFID=2160456&CFTOKEN=15989902

There are plenty of vocations but the people against them seek ways to stop the young men in many ways.

God Bless
Scylla

This is my experience as well… Again, I have experience in two dioceses that I can compare… Rockford is excellent at encouraging vocations in every way (Eucharistic devotions in the parishes, active Vocations office with many discernment retreats, priests that give vocation talks at Sunday homily, parish-level vocation discernment groups and, what do you know… no parishes are closing for lack of priests). My present archdiocese to the west is the exact opposite. Very few vocations… and very little being done about it… on the part of the Archdiocese and the laity in the parishes. (And I know that some of the more “progressive” folk seem silently content to watch as the ship goes down–how sad).

 

[AngelicDoctor]

Take a lesson from the Eastern Orthodox Churches for vocations.

What is the lesson that we can learn from the Easter Orthodox Churches?

 

[AngelicDoctor]

That is true - I don’t care to waste time here on it again. But I will continue to pray for what I think would make the Church better just like those who wanted a return to the old mass prayed for what they thought would make the Church better.

Yes, we can all agree to pray Almighty God to strengthen the Church in the way that He knows best. Then we do our part and wait for God to do His. Then we can all be satisfied with whatever that is. In all things, trust and love the Church… she is the instrument that He chose.

 

[pieta05]

This is what my new parish priest said yesterday…speaking really about central Florida, mainly. I looked at my husband shocked…he said that there will be more Deacons taking over non church positions, so that more priests can be at mass…but, he said the day is coming when the priests will ‘run out,’ here in central Florida. It saddened me.

What do you think about his statement? And, hypothetically…let’s say this is a strong possibility…what will be the future of the RCC?

Vocations are rising in Orthodox Dioceses…I think I would show that to your priest.

 

[Spirithound]

He noted how blessed we are in our parish - there are four priests living in our rectory right now. We have a pastor, an assistant, and one “in residence” priest who has a full-time administrative post within the diocese. For the next few weeks, there is a priest from Africa staying at our rectory who is preaching at various parishes in the diocese.

This type of situation really raises the question of why these priests aren’t spread out more.

God may be sending us a message, perhaps He doesn’t like celibacy?

Read 1 Cor. 7

 

[Mt_28_19_20]

The celibacy and women’s ordination possibilities are fruitless points of discussion.

Priestly celibacy is a tradition that could change. I, however, trust the wisdom of the Church in this matter.

Obviously, I disagree that celibacy is a pointless discussion. In fact you point out that it could change. What might be signs from God that He wants it to change? Perhaps:
1) More and more priestless parishes? (Is it even a parish anymore without a priest? More like a side project to visit on a regular basis?)
2) Recognizing the past popes, bishops, and priests who have been married with children (or just had children outside of marriage)? (Didn’t Galway have a popular priest, and a bishop who were found within the last 10 years to have fathered children? Try googling Galway scandal Catholic… or some similar combination)
3) More settlements for sexual abuse allegations? From this weeks’ news release from the LA Archdiocese:
"ARCHDIOCESE OF LOS ANGELES ANNOUNCES SETTLEMENT OF 45 CASES OF ALLEGED SEXUAL ABUSE BY CLERGY
The Archdiocese of Los Angeles announced today that it has settled for $60 million 45 cases in which clergy abuse has been alleged—a cost shared by insurers, religious orders and the Archdiocese. The Archdiocese’s share of the settlement cost—approximately $40 million—was anticipated and set aside last year. In a statement today (see below), Cardinal Roger Mahony said, “I want to assure you…that no parishes will be affected as a result of this settlement.”

  " a cost shared by ... and the Archdiocese."  Why not just say 40 million will come from the faithful laity who tithe and give generously? Makes one want to through in a little extra at Sunday worship?

  Did anyone else wonder how cardinal Mahony could say with a straight face "I want to assure you...that no parishes will be affected as a result of this settlement."?

  So, shall we close our eyes and follow blindly, choosing to interpret 1 Cor 7 as a basis for celibacy, instead of reading BOTH OT and NT Scripture in context? How many accept the lame interpretations of 1 Tim 3:2, 12, and Titus 1:6? And how many close their eyes to the reality of the spiritual health of the members of the Church, both priests and laity?

  So, why not hold on to the "tradition" of celibacy, even if it means priestless parishes? That's wisdom?

Michael

 

[Mt_28_19_20]

Read 1 Cor. 7

Read Sacred Scripture in context.

It’s not about celibacy, it is about loving God first, then others, then self. Marriage to Joseph did not keep Mary from serving God.
Marriage to Zipporah did not keep Moses from serving God (Ex 2:21). There are married Catholic men who would make good priests, as evidence by their love for their wife and children (1 Tim 3:2). So what if more parishes will be priestless?

Michael

 

[debraran]

I was talking to an older priest about this and he thought “maybe” the celibacy rule would be lifted one day, but not in his lifetime. He said he was never that lonely, was a priest in a time that had more priests to be around, help you, etc. but as you age, and they die off, get sick, etc., it does get very lonely for some.
We discussed how rabbi’s do it, but it’s hard having a family, children, problems at home, etc. Who pays for the insurance, education of the kids, etc. That’s a lot of $ to have the parish carry or the archdiocise. A lot of questions and not many answers.
I don’t think celibacy was why priests molested children…that feeling was there from the beginning, it’s an illness. Married men molest children, priests though that did this continually, faked a calling to something more holy and devout.
As far as homosexual priests, (not pedophiles)To be honest, growing up in a very Italian/Irish neighborhood, parents and relatives could be BRUTAL to anyone not married or dating by 24…homophobia was acute, and if you didn’t become a bachelor in the Army/Navy or act like a “can’t commit” cad, the priesthood looked good. It was better than having to deal with all the questions on why you weren’t doing something.Power, respect, room & board, a maid/secretary, vacations, etc. And you were given the benefit of the doubt. To say no one would go into it without a true calling is unfounded and even the bishop last night on TV discussing the case in CA said so, it’s almost impossible even with psych tests to tell, you have to be observant, listen and not let things get put under the rug." I agree, do what you can with tests, but the truth comes out later, it did with these guys, it just wasn’t dealt with. WHY I will never understand. (Shame?) The really sad thing is if they showed by handling it quietly and swiftly back then, it would of sent a message and maybe today we wouldn’t have to deal with the tragedy now.

 

[Mt_28_19_20]

I The really sad thing is if they showed by handling it quietly and swiftly back then, it would of sent a message and maybe today we wouldn’t have to deal with the tragedy now.

  How does handling something quietly send a message? Isn't that the problem? No ownership of responsibility by those in charge, until forced by lawsuits? It is shameful. Such holy leadership! Most moral teenagers would have handled things better than men who renounced Godly marriage for a position of respect and authority.

Michael