Someday--there will be priestless parishes?

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Yes, One was part of an order and looked tired, he also looked like he wanted to say something and didn’t, held it in, and I’m glad. He didn’t want to encourage or discourage either. Another just gave that “mona lisa type smile”, polite, but disinterested, and the other, said, wistfully, “3 squares and a bed, could do worse”. He also said he would be more inclined to talk to my daughters, my son’s age is hard, so gobbly-gook that I took to mean, “I’d rather not”. Hey, it’s a different priesthood for them, starting back in the “old days”. I wonder if a young priest, beyond the initial fresh and “I can do anything” period, would be better.
 
The priest who had the mona lisa smile…what a vivid image of that I have in my mind. His silence said a lot, actually. Do you suppose they are not happy? It’s funny, in PA, the parish that we attended talked about increasing the vocation of the priesthood nearly every Sunday. I recall this being a talking point that Bishop Weurhl brought up in a homily, when he visited our Church. I even remember meeting him, he shook my son’s hand, and said…‘think about the priesthood, son.’ I always thought he was a brave Bishop to speak about the priesthood with such fervor.
 
I think they are somewhat happy, whatevergirl, but honest. We are asked to pray for vocations too,every week, but the reality of it and getting personally involved is two different things. Sometimes you forget the lives they lead are full of the same politics, good and bad feelings , backstabbing, and dryness as the rest of our lives and a lot more stress sometimes. If you overhear any conversations they have to each other or close friends, it’s a different flavor than to their parishiners, the way it should be. Some are full of their love of Christ and some are just getting through each day, one day at a time.
Bishops and vocation directors will be pushier but the “regular priest” can be more on auto-pilot.
 
I really think today the big issue is not just celibacy, that has always been there in the priesthood, it’s support, by peers and other priests and money. Student loans have to be paid off unless they are small and may men and women have to work or get help before entering seminaries or orders. That can change minds because you’re thinking, 3 years to pay it off (maybe) and then 8 years of school, etc. If you really want too, you will, but it’s daunting. My son will have about 20,000 in loans when he graduates, the “average they say in the college books”, maybe 15,000 if he’s lucky, and that would be hard to pay off first, but doable if you live home and work full time. Not the case years ago.

I also found, and this is just a very small sample, when bringing up my son’s interest in the priesthood to 3 priests last year, not ONE said anything to me or asked to have my son speak to them. You can say they wanted to hear it directly from him, but still, not a smile, nothing. I took it as they were a bit burnt out (all over 50) or didnt’ like the state of things…but again, as very small sample and I could of hit them all on a bad day. The last time, as my smile faded, I felt very sad.
The money issue may not be as important. The majority of dioceses in the U.S. pay the tuition for at least the post-graduate classes (that is, the 4 years of theology study in “major” seminary that is required after a man has finished his bachelor’s). Some dioceses might help a man get through his bachelor’s (whether he studies at a university or at a college “minor” seminary), but it is true that he would be in the same boat as any other college student with regards to that.
My point is that, the financial cost is not the same as, say, med school.

If priests show no joy about hearing a man who is interested in the vocation then it may be that they are burnt-out or not particularly joyful, at this time, with their own priesthood. I know a lot of priests who work very hard for many years and are a little exhausted… but they still love their priesthood. They are excited when they hear of young men who are interested in the priesthood.
 
I’ve menttioned this before on other threads, but the bishops need to establish an effective advertising campaign to attract young men to the priesthood. I’m not looking for glitzy gimmicks and cute slogans; I’m looking for a campaign that effectively presents the priesthood as an exciting and fulfilling career. It’s not as though we don’t use other modern technologies in the church. It’s just that somehow it is deemed “sacreligious” to advertise. Let’s get off our butts and really work at attracting men to the priesthood. Remember the old Jesuit maxim: “Pray as though everything depended upon God, and work as though everything depended upon you.”

Matthew
 
I’ve menttioned this before on other threads, but the bishops need to establish an effective advertising campaign to attract young men to the priesthood. I’m not looking for glitzy gimmicks and cute slogans; I’m looking for a campaign that effectively presents the priesthood as an exciting and fulfilling career. It’s not as though we don’t use other modern technologies in the church. It’s just that somehow it is deemed “sacreligious” to advertise. Let’s get off our butts and really work at attracting men to the priesthood. Remember the old Jesuit maxim: “Pray as though everything depended upon God, and work as though everything depended upon you.”

Matthew
You know who promotes this very well? The Knights of Columbus, actually…my husband is part of that organization, and he receives a monthly magazine, and there are many articles speaking about the beauty of this vocation, with testimonials of very young men, who have recently been ordained. I find those stories very uplifting and encouraging to what we normally hear. I read a story last night actually, whereby a young man is explaining how he has been so generously blessed to not only have so many to care and love…but that so many love him, too…it was really beautiful to read.🙂

There are apparently, also, several national orders that promote young men entering the seminaries, offering stipends and even tuition help…I think it’s a pretty remarkable organization to want to help like this.
 
Michael,
Please explain to me how mandatory celibacy causes men to molest children. I have lived as a celibate man for some 8 years now and my normal healthy attraction to women has remained. My celibate life has never led me to start desiring molesting children-male or female. I look forward to you backing up your argument with some evidence so you can share with us your “wisdom”.

Also, hasn’t the Church had mandatory celibacy for several centuries? Why did that not lead to a priest shortage during those times? Why all of a sudden now?
No need to get sarcastic with ‘your “wisdom”’. Why do you call yourself AngelicDoctor? Is that how you view yourself?

So, lets look at what I said, in response to you saying celibacy was a fruitless discussion:

"Obviously, I disagree that celibacy is a pointless discussion. In fact you point out that it could change. What might be signs from God that He wants it to change? Perhaps:
  1. More and more priestless parishes? (Is it even a parish anymore without a priest? More like a side project to visit on a regular basis?)
  2. Recognizing the past popes, bishops, and priests who have been married with children (or just had children outside of marriage)? (Didn’t Galway have a popular priest, and a bishop who were found within the last 10 years to have fathered children? Try googling Galway scandal Catholic… or some similar combination)
  3. More settlements for sexual abuse allegations? From this weeks’ news release from the LA Archdiocese:…"
Now, what do you want me to back up?
  1. more and more priestless parishes: hasn’t that been voiced and backed-up on this forum?
  2. former Galway bishop Dr Eamonn Casey rte.ie/news/2006/0829/caseye.html
    or this 73 year Galway priest with a secret afair with a 31 yo:
    asia.news.yahoo.com/060122/ap/d8f9gcf80.html
    bishop-accountability.org/news2006/01_02/2006_01_18_McDonald_Priest73.htm

    about married Popes:
    marriage.about.com/od/historyofmarriage/ss/marriedpopes.htm
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sexually_active_popes
    futurechurch.org/fpm/history.htm

    For a list of married Popes, Bishops, and priests from the first 6 centuries, see Cochini’s (S.J.) book on the history of clerical celibacy.
  3. for documentation of the settlements for the scandals in LA, Boston, and other cities, just google. I already gave a quote from the LA Archdiocese’ press release.
Now while I said the priest shortage, the history of married Popes and priests in the Church, and the sex scandal (you do believe it happened, not just something anti-Catholics conjured up?) may be signs God wants the requirement for priestly celibacy to change, I NEVER said celibacy itself causes men to molest children. Nor do I think most celibate men molest children. I do think a celibate clergy has attracted some men with less than normal social and sexual behaviors or tendencies, as a kind of safe place with the bonus of a position of authority and respect.

The point is, apparently there is a priest shortage in some areas, and not requiring celibacy may very well help alleviate the shortage, and would be consistent with 1 Tim 3:1-7.

You mention “I have lived as a celibate man for some 8 years now and my normal healthy attraction to women has remained.” Well if you believe God called you to renounce marriage to enable you to serve Him better, that’s between you and God. I would think if you renounced marriage, you would have no reason to be attacted to a particular woman any more than you would be interested in having a conversation with a family member or friend of either gender.

So why is there a perceived shortage? And why such a scandal if celibacy is such a call to holiness? Do you think married priests could cover up such behavior as well as celibate priests could?

Michael
 
What does this have to do with the current thread theme–priestless parishes? I have many friends in the seminary. They are angry at the failures of the minority of priests and bishops. That does not stop them from wanting to be priests (in fact, it makes them want to be GOOD HEROIC priests). Oh yeah, and they embrace celibacy as a good thing.
What does this have to do with priestless parishes? How many ordained priests left and married. Big loss of priests over celibacy. Not to mention all the GOOD HEROIC CATHOLIC HUSBANDS AND FATHERS who would make good priest except celibacy bars them. So, lets keep a CHANGEABLE TRADITION that is not backed by Scripture (if it was it would not be changeable), after all, who cares if it means some parishes will close or be priestless?

Yea, celibacy is such a good thing. Losing focus of what Jesus was teaching in Mt 19, and turning it into an excuse for priestly celibacy, that’s so good? That’s about insightful as the apostles were, though I’ll assume you are aware about how often they did not understand.

Michael
 
Your interpretation of the chapter in question is valid, but general enough to be applied to the entire Bible. The literal, word for word reading of this chapter unarguably shows that St. Paul (inspired by God Himself) considers celibacy to be a higher calling than married life, even though being married and engaging in sexual relations with your spouse is not by any means sinful.
Your examples of Moses and Mary are nice, but they did not serve in the sacramental priesthood. And I’m not even saying that a married priesthood is a no-no, but rather that God loves celibacy! I would be hesitant, also, to conclude from a love of wife and children that a man would make a good priest.

Read this article, specifically, scroll down to the section called “Origin”.
newadvent.org/cathen/02561a.htm
According to this article, ancient practice was for a married man to be ordained, but then for him to be celibate, even in his married state!
Please! Context!

1 Tim 3:1-5 “It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do. An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money. He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?),”

If one merely quotes “must be above reproach, the husband of one wife” then perhaps someone might buy the arguement that Paul was saying not to be married more than once, but not necessarily married. However, Paul goes on: “He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity (but if a man does not know how to manage his household, how will he take care of the church of God?”
Why does Paul say this? Look at the state of our Church today? Our priests are leading with control and dignity? Is that what these settlements reflect? Is that why many “Catholics” do not know the gospel, let alone Scripture?

“Your examples of Moses and Mary are nice, but they did not serve in the sacramental priesthood.”
Wow, they are “nice”, the ark of the covenant “nice”? How about Aaron, or the first Pope Peter. Is that more holy than Mary and Moses? How about John XI 931-935, son of Pope Sergius III?
futurechurch.org/fpm/history.htm

“I would be hesitant, also, to conclude from a love of wife and children that a man would make a good priest.”
And I would be hesitant to conclude that renouncing marriage, as God made man and woman, would make a man a good priest.

In regards to 1 Cor 7, there are reasons to believe Paul was a widower, which would lend more cohesiveness to what he writes, in my opinion. Even in verses 25-26 Paul writes: “Now concerning virgins I have no command of the Lord, but I give an opinion as one who by the mercy of the Lord is trustworthy. I think then that this is good in view of the present distress, that it is good for a man to remain as he is.”
He is giving an opinion in view of the present distress, and states that he is giving an opinion, and does not have a command of the Lord concerning virgins. And yet the surrounding verses are so often quoted and interpreted without regard for these disclaimers or context.
Regardless, Jesus did not teach celibacy, so neither would Paul. When did Jesus ever teach renouncing something God had created as good? He was teaching not to renounce marriage by divorcing and thus risk committing adultery, and what do the apostles reflexively do? Renounce the idea of marriage all together. So does Jesus say, great understanding? Or does He correct them in Mt 19? Why did Jesus call a married man as the first disciple and Pope?

Michael
 
This is what my new parish priest said yesterday…speaking really about central Florida, mainly. I looked at my husband shocked…he said that there will be more Deacons taking over non church positions, so that more priests can be at mass…but, he said the day is coming when the priests will ‘run out,’ here in central Florida. It saddened me.

What do you think about his statement? And, hypothetically…let’s say this is a strong possibility…what will be the future of the RCC?😦
The future of the Catholic Church will then be passed along to the priests of the growing religous orders and the diocese that ARE ordaining priests.

Central Florida may be having difficulty, but a good many diocese and orders are in fact NOT.

See here:
blog.ancient-future.net/2007/…blessings.html

But I find this sort of “priestless” future talk to be all too frequently with alterior motive. Rather than point blank admit that the vocations are out there, but the recruitment and respect for them is abysmal, it seems to be the case many want to prepare the faithful to accept this as inevitable and natural.

IT simply is not so.

I recall reading in Homiletic and Pastoral Review an article some ten years ago that actually pointed out that our numbers today are similar to the numbers and priests-per-capita of 100 years ago. But it would seem that back then, they didn’t resign themselves to those numbers. Vocations were prayed for, and the prayers were answered.

Maybe your priest would be interested in allowing a group dedicated to meeting weekly to pray for vocations to be formed?

If your bishop is serious in wanting to cultivate vocations, he would do well to look at diocese that are doing just that. He might also consider supporting some of the religious orders that are growing.

Actually, come to think of it, your bishop could call the Diocese of Arlington, VA - which has ordained more priests than it has parishes for, as of this year - and ask Arlington to send them a “loaner”… To serve as the NEW vocations director.
 
When was the last time your Pastor spoke to you about vocations?

When was the last time you prayed for vocations?

When was the last tiem your Bishops instituted programs to pray for and to openly encourage vocations?

When was the last time your parish had scheduled prayer time with large groups before the blessed sacrament asking God for vocations?

When was the last time the parents on this board talked to their sons about vocations?

God calls plenty of men…the world and the Church and the men often say NO.
 
When was the last time your Pastor spoke to you about vocations?

When was the last time you prayed for vocations?

When was the last tiem your Bishops instituted programs to pray for and to openly encourage vocations?

When was the last time your parish had scheduled prayer time with large groups before the blessed sacrament asking God for vocations?

When was the last time the parents on this board talked to their sons about vocations?

God calls plenty of men…the world and the Church and the men often say NO.
At least once in the last six months during a homily.

At Sunday Mass today.

Each year.

Don’t know.

Don’t know.

God calls all men to serve Him and one another, men often impose traditions or conditions on how others are to serve Him and one another.

How many people became teachers, nurses, engineers, police, fire fighters, doctors, athletes, parents, etc because of the example of men and women who were role models for them? The example of our priests over the years is and should be a powerful example for young Catholics. If this is not inspiring vocations, perhaps we should pray for better examples to inspire vocations. Occasionally at work I hears some who went to Catholic school talk about how mean some of the Nuns were. I was surprised at some of what they described.

Michael
 
I agree that the crisis is real. It is a crisis given the centrality of the Mass and Eucharist. I believe that the vocations are out there but I don’t think the Church’s efforts to encourage and identify are enough. No, I don’t know what else should be done. I would find it useful to see if CA forum readers have any ideas.
 
At least once in the last six months during a homily.

At Sunday Mass today.

Each year.

Don’t know.

Don’t know.

God calls all men to serve Him and one another, men often impose traditions or conditions on how others are to serve Him and one another.

How many people became teachers, nurses, engineers, police, fire fighters, doctors, athletes, parents, etc because of the example of men and women who were role models for them? The example of our priests over the years is and should be a powerful example for young Catholics. If this is not inspiring vocations, perhaps we should pray for better examples to inspire vocations. Occasionally at work I hears some who went to Catholic school talk about how mean some of the Nuns were. I was surprised at some of what they described.

Michael
I am glad to know you do those things, I would venature a guess that most Catholics do not, that most Priests do not and that most Bishops do not (obviously I could be wrong).

I also agree that living by example is the best form of evangelizing for nearly all walks of life.
 
there’s many deacons in my church but not an official priest. it saddens me as well. let’s just pray for increase of priestly and religious vocations.
 
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