Someone, Anyone, please help me!

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Know what you mean about needing to vent…

:tsktsk:

:whacky:

:hmmm:

:nope:

:crying:

:rolleyes:

:banghead:

God give me the knowledge and the patience to continue this discussion… Amen
 
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StratusRose:
Thanks so much! I used both of them for the thread. I hope you don’t mind me plagiarizing. 😃

Anyone else got some good info??
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Status Rose:

We the Nicene Creed: we say (Anglican version}, "
“I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord, the Giver of Life, …”
or (Catholic Version), We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life…"

Please note, since the Anglican Communion opened the door to Christians using and accepting the use of Artificial Contraception in 1931, the Divorce Rate among Christians whose denominations have accepted its use, or who have used it themselves, have been almost indistinguishable from the non-believing world.

The Catholic Church had a Divorce Rate of under 4% until Catholics began to use Contraception, in disobedience to the Teaching of the Church, in the 1960’s. Since then, the Divorce Rate among Catholics has been indistinguishable from that of the secular world and of Christians who use Contraception.

At the same time, the Divorce Rate of those families who obeyed the Teaching of the Church and used ONLY NFP has remained at 4%.

The sex act is a SACRAMENTAL ACT. Grace is meant to be conferred on married believers who participate in that act with their husbands and/or wives (“the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life” is the third partner in the act). Contraction blocks the possibility of LIFE from happening as a result of the act, and thus blocks the action and person of the Holy Spirit (“The Lord and Giver of Life”) from participating in the act. This prevents the act from transmitting God’s Grace or of having any Salvific benefit!

That accounts for the difference in the divorce rate - Using contraception is like going to Mass and accepting Christ’s Body and Blood while in a state of Mortal Sin! It’s lethal to the marraige!

This is not something that most Protestants would think about, but the Divorce Rate is.

You could also remind them that it was against the teaching of ALL of their Churches until AFTER 1931, and that most of the Bible believing Churches did not allow their members to use Contraception until the late 1950’s, early 1960’s, and that this caused Contraception to be ILLEGAL in the United States until the 1960’s because of the opposition of various Christian and other religious groups.

These are at least two things to think about.

Blessed are they who act to save God’s Little Ones. Michael
 
Ptero9 said:
“Still need you guys. One guy even said that birth control was sent to us by God because children are more burdensome to raise now than they were in the old days.”

Burdensome? Is this a Christian forum? If so, you could remind him to take up his cross and follow Jesus, and to unit his sufferings to Christ!

Also, if folks can’t see the connection between the acceptance of contraception into our culture in 1930 and the breakdown of marriage and family I can’t imagine how else to convince them!

Sex has become a play thing in which we are no longer willing to accept responsibility for, or to suffer the consequences for in the choices we make.

Birthcontrol enables sexual immorality, NFP does not…how many couples involved in an adulterous relationship would have the where-with-all to do the work it takes to practice NFP?
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Ptero9:

Use the Divorce rate in my lat post in re the breakdown of the family.

Regarding the bit about children.Simply ask them how the Bible sees Childen and then ask them why they disagree with the Bible’s view?

You see, the Bible called Children “A gift from the Lord”.The Bible said that, in the Last Days, Mothers would forget their Children. The ONLY thing that can produce both of those is the CONTRAPTIVE MENTALITY, which sees children, NOT as “gifts from the Lord”, but as “Contraceptive Failures”.

Ask a woman who’s having an abortion what religion she is, or as the same question to whoever takes her to the abortuary. You’ll be surprised to learn that she just might be a churchgoing woman who had a “Contraceptive Failure”, and that she might even be married.

That’s why ECUSA approved Abortion on demand in 1982 and the Church of Canada supported Morgantaler against Canada.

That’s where the Contraceptive Mentality leads us. Make sure they understand that.

And then, show them the Prophecies of Pope Paul IV in Humainae Vitae and just how they were fulfilled duiring the last 35 years.

We’re suposed to renounce, “All the Devil’s empty promises…” Contraception and sex without consequences is just one of them.

Blessed are they who act to save God’s Little Ones. Michael
 
I would wonder why anyone would bother with this argument with such people? Why let yourself get so worked up over this, just don’t go back to that forum or board. Just find a new one where people are more apt to believe like you do. You are not likely to win hearts and change minds in a site like that anyway.
 
To those who say that since the result is the same the method doesn’t matter, you could give this example

Two men go into a bank with the object of obtaining $1000.00
One man writes a withdrawal slip, and hands it to the teller and the teller withdraws 1000.00 from the man’s account and hands him the cash.
The other man points a gun in the teller’s face and demands $1000.00 and he receives the cash from the teller.

In both cases the end result is the same, but the methods of obtaining that result are OK in one case, but criminal in the other.

One case is OK, the other can result in jail.
 
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JackPaul:
I would wonder why anyone would bother with this argument with such people? Why let yourself get so worked up over this, just don’t go back to that forum or board. Just find a new one where people are more apt to believe like you do. You are not likely to win hearts and change minds in a site like that anyway.
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This site isn’t like the protestant sites we all know. They are not anti-Catholic just for the sake of it! They truly wish to know the other side, and uphold good debate techniques.

There is absolutley no flaming or rude comments form ANYONE. I was utterly amazed. Not because it’s a protestant forum- but because forums in general tend to be anything but charitable! (Even this one at times.)

Many of these people love their children and abhor abortion. They love God. So in a way this is a great place to have a debate like this because you CAN include things like morality- without fear of it being thrown back in your face. They accept the literature of the early Church, and even Eusebius was quoted in an off topic discussion! (For those who don’t know, he was the first guy to write a compilation of Church History.)

They have accepted many of the points that I have offered about the “biological” aspects of our fertility cycles and why introducing ABC is inherently wrong. But they want scriptural evidence of it. Which of course- the only good scripture available are the Onan passages.

For those interested in getting their apologetic feet wet, this is a lovely charitable website that at least allows Catholics their say- and asks genuine questions about our faith!
 
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