Someone Tell Me Please

[NewPerspective]

Ok. I’ll set aside previous conception of the catholic faith and ask generously for a briefing of what it actually comprises of. Someone please tell me the make up of the catholic faith. From start to finish. The premise of salvation and the make up thereof. Explain purgatory and its scriptural notation. Note scripture that puts Mary above the angels and is asked to be prayed to as an intercessor between men and God. These things I WANT to know. Please Help. Someone that knows what they are talking about and wont argue for the sake of argument. Please enlighten me folks.

 

[LilyM]

That’s a tall order and far too messy for one thread.

Start individual threads for each topic and you’ll get a better response.

Best of all, simply click at the top of the screen where it says ‘Library’ and you’ll have access to reams of material, scripture and all, about just about every topic you’ve directly mentioned.

 

[1ke]

I’d suggest you invest in a Catechism, or view it online.

Read the text, and then ask specific questions on things you do not understand.

And, as per forum rules, post one topic per thread not list of multiple topics as you have done here.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Ok. I’ll set aside previous conception of the catholic faith and ask generously for a briefing of what it actually comprises of. Someone please tell me the make up of the catholic faith. From start to finish. The premise of salvation and the make up thereof. Explain purgatory and its scriptural notation. Note scripture that puts Mary above the angels and is asked to be prayed to as an intercessor between men and God. These things I WANT to know. Please Help. Someone that knows what they are talking about and wont argue for the sake of argument. Please enlighten me folks.

biblechristiansociety.com - Has free MP3 Downloads of the Catholic Church and provides Biblical Defense.

I would recommend this and you listen to it with an open mind. You can disagree if you wish.

scripturecatholic.com is another Catholic Apologetic Site run by John Salza and he has his own radio station as well.

scborromeo.org/ccc.htm is an Online Catechism of the Catholic Church. It cites Scripture, Vatican Council II, writings of the Early Church Fathers,

I believe Catholic.com catholic.com also has a tract.

If you want 100% truth about the Catholic Church you use Catholic resources. Not books or rumors from Former Catholics, ex-priests, etc.

This is another site that has the basis on Catholic Belief system.

ancient-future.net/basics.html

 

[Mirdath]

I’ll give it a shot (but keep in mind that while I grew up Catholic and am quite knowledgeable about the religion, I do not profess it myself… on the internet, you get what you pay for )

This is a big, big topic. We’re talking shelves full of books here. The more specific you can get, the better people will be able to answer your questions.

That said:

Salvation
According to Genesis, humans have fallen from their originally intended state of perfection and closeness to God. This fall is the root of human malice and pain, the ‘original sin’ which keeps us separate from God. As a consequence of sin, the gates of heaven were closed to us.

Humans alone cannot earn their way back in; the taint of sin remains, and its effects linger even after the blame is washed away by baptism. There had to be some kind of sacrifice to reopen paradise; and the only being capable of making such a great sacrifice is God himself. Hence the incarnation and crucifixion of the Christ. It is that sacrifice, Jesus’ death on the cross, that opened heaven to humans.

Given that we have free will, though, we can of course opt out of the promise of salvation by going ahead and sinning – denying or ignoring God’s love.

Purgatory
To understand this, you need to know the distinction between mortal and venial sins. A mortal sin is a complete denial of God’s love; without reconciliation with God (through the sacrament of confession) it’s a one-way ticket to hell. Venial sins are lesser, incomplete turnings-away from God.

Even after confession, the guilt of sin may be lifted but there’s still a thing called ‘temporal punishment’; you’re also due for it if you die in a state of venial sin. You aren’t going to hell since you repented and took advantage of Jesus’ sacrifice, but there’s still a smaller debt owed. Purgatory exists to purify souls of this temporal punishment before they enter heaven.

There’s plenty of scriptural basis. This site has a nice collection of citations.

Mary above the angels
She’s basically the Queen Mum. Mother of God, after all – and the angels are God’s wait staff.

Intercession
Intercession, through the saints in general and Mary in particular, simply follows from the idea of ‘friends in high places’. It’s not praying to them at all – it’s asking them to pray to God for you.

 

[stadre]

Ok. I’ll set aside previous conception of the catholic faith and ask generously for a briefing of what it actually comprises of. Someone please tell me the make up of the catholic faith. From start to finish. The premise of salvation and the make up thereof. Explain purgatory and its scriptural notation. Note scripture that puts Mary above the angels and is asked to be prayed to as an intercessor between men and God. These things I WANT to know. Please Help. Someone that knows what they are talking about and wont argue for the sake of argument. Please enlighten me folks.

NP, I have not posted since others have it well covered, but I have to respond to this. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE start with the library at Catholic Answers. This has been suggested in several posts. There is even a link at the top of the screen. The other sites given are also a great place to go. Please understand that it is impossible to write what you are asking in one thread. After all, we have Sacred Scripture, the Catechism, and (I don’t know how many) encyclicals describing the Cathlic faith. (Other posters: anything I didn’t mention?)

I appreciate your willingness to read about what we believe. You may never agree with it, but you will be a better person for your understanding. God bless.

 

[dosdog]

Ok. I’ll set aside previous conception of the catholic faith and ask generously for a briefing of what it actually comprises of. Someone please tell me the make up of the catholic faith. From start to finish. The premise of salvation and the make up thereof. Explain purgatory and its scriptural notation. Note scripture that puts Mary above the angels and is asked to be prayed to as an intercessor between men and God. These things I WANT to know. Please Help. Someone that knows what they are talking about and wont argue for the sake of argument. Please enlighten me folks.

infpage.com/concordance/
ewtn.com/faith/teachings/index.htm
ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/BASISPUR.HTM
ewtn.com/vondemand/audio/series_index.asp
ewtn.com/vlibrary/search.asp

 

[Pixie_Dust]

The Catholic Answers home page is chock-full of information, as I’ve mentioned in another post.

Someone else mentioned the Bible Christian Society. You can order tapes/CDs or you can download each talk in MP3 format. Start with “One Church.” Please. It will answer a TON of your questions.

Another helpful place to visit is the Catholic Bridge. This guy came from a Protestant background so he knows the objections and misconceptions that Protestants typically have and does a great job explaining the Catholic Faith in Protestant-speak. I was using information from this website before God actually made ME Catholic.

Finally, I’d invite you to read my blog entries re: my conversion.
st-cecilias.blogspot.com/2006/09/finding-my-faith.html
st-cecilias.blogspot.com/2006/09/finding-my-faith-part-2.html
st-cecilias.blogspot.com/2006/09/finding-my-faith-part-3.html
and
st-cecilias.blogspot.com/2006/09/why-catholicism-and-why-not.html

 

[Cat]

NewPerspective, now you’re talkin’! Or maybe I should say, “now you’re readin’!” I hope you like to study!

I’m going to try to help you out on the purgatory question. Remember, I was born and raised evangelical Protestant and I was very involved in the life of the evangelical church for over 40 years. So I have a viewpoint of purgatory that will hopefully make sense to you as a Protestant Christian.

I Corinthians 3:12-15 is what purgatory is.

Purgatory refers to the “purging” of our sins. These verses in I Corinthians talk about the burning away of works of man. The man is still saved, but his inadequate “works” are purged or burned away. Do you believe in this passage of Scripture?

This is what Catholics are talking about when they say “purgatory.”

It’s not “hell” or “another layer of hell” or “an alternative to heaven and hell.” Purgatory is the process that happens to a saved believer after death to get them perfect and free them of their earthly cares and constraints so that they can enter into heaven.

When we die, whatever is in our life that is sinful or self-centered or not Christlike is burned away so that we can enter sinless heaven. (As you know from Revelation, sin cannot enter into heaven.)

When I was Protestant, I believe that this “burning away” happened instantaneously at the time of death.

As a Catholic, I still believe this. I have heard various priests give sermons and present this viewpoint of purgatory.

Other Catholics believe that the “burning” or “purging” process takes longer. Some say thousands of years. Others say a shorter time.

The Catholic Church has not issued an official statement describing the details of purgatory, the “burning away of our sins and works of self that occurs after death.” It is left up to each individual Christian to decide whether purgatory is instantaneous or a long-time process.

With God, there is no “time.” A thousand years in our sight is but a moment for Him. When we die, we are no longer bound by earthly time, but we are in God’s Hands and in His “time.” Purgatory might last less than a nanosecond in human time. We cannot say. That’s why the Church has not issued an official “dogma” or “doctrine.” No one knows exactly how the process takes place.

But I Corinthians 3: 12-15 makes it clear that there is a “burning” process that happens at death to SAVED believers. Catholics call this purgatory. Protestants don’t give it a name, at least, not in the evangelical denominations that I was part of.

Does all this make sense to you? It’s straight out of the Bible. I believed it as a Protestant and I still believe it as a Catholic.

I will continue this on another post, if you don’t mind reading a little more.

 

[Cat]

continued from the previous post

NewPerspective, you will hear terms like “treasury of merit” thrown around the Catholic Church, and you have no doubt heard that Catholics pray for those undergoing the purging or “burning” processing we call purgatory.

I can’t possibly begin to explain the whole doctrine of merit. I highly recommend that you read this section in the “library” of this website for a more detailed explanation.

But I’ll give it a try and I ask that Catholics not criticize me too much for a simplification.

A “saint” in your church dies, a great saint who is known as someone who is “like Christ.” They don’t have any habitual sins in their life, and even though they are still on this earth, they are very Christ-like. This person will not have as much sin and selfish works to be burned away, will they? They’re virtually ready to walk right into heaven when they die, because their lives have been made “like Christ.” Catholics call this “merit”–as we receive more grace from Christ, He increases and we decrease. We become “like Him,” which, after all, is the purpose of being a Christian, to be “like Christ.”

But suppose someone in your church dies who struggled with sin, who never did conquer their addictive sins, who possibly committed crimes, who was constantly questioning their faith and the truth of the Bible. This person has a lot of “junk” in their lives that needs to be burned away at the time of their death.

This is Biblical. Jesus Himself said that the one who is the greatest sinner needs the Physician the most, didn’t He? (Matthew 9:12)

Now be careful–I’m NOT talking about “forgiveness” of sins. As Christians, our sins are forgiven if we have repented and confessed them. (I John 1:9). The process of purgatory is not about forgiveness, it’s about “burning away,” as it says in I Corinthians 3: 12-15.

Even though our sins are forgiven, usually they are still in our lives. Hopefully Christians will learn that Christ has conquered sin in our lives and we will put off sin and put on Christ as we mature in our faith. But that usually is a process, and often, it takes years for a Christian to become totally free of an entangling sin. (Not always–sometimes God delivers someone immediately, e.g., alcoholics that never crave another drop after they turn their lives over to God).

As for praying for the ones in purgatory, the Catholics who believe that purgatory takes a long time pray for those who are in the process of having their sins and human weaknesses burned away. It’s not any different than if you pray for someone to be delivered from sin and strife here on this earth.

I really hope this explanation helps you to understand the teaching of purgatory. It’s actually one of the most Biblically-provable things that Catholics teach. I knew all about purgatory from my Bible as a Protestant. I just didn’t call it purgatory back then.

 

[kellie]

Cat,
As a cradle Catholic, I would like to thank you for your last 2 posts on purgatory.
I have never had someone explain it to me so well, in such easy terms.
God bless

 

[Cat]

Kellie, thanks so much. That’s sweet to hear. I don’t want to mistate anything about the Catholic Church.

I honestly think that purgatory is one of the most “Protestant” doctrines. If Catholics stopped calling it “purgatory”, a word which really confuses and frightens Protestants and gets their ‘"fightin’ dander up,", and started referring to I Corinthians 3:12-15 and the “process” of having our “old life” burned away, I think we would make it easier for Protestants to understand. If they believe in I Corinthians 3: 12-15, tHEY believe in purgatory, too, but they don’t call it purgatory.

 

[Zooey]

Kellie, thanks so much. That’s sweet to hear. I don’t want to mistate anything about the Catholic Church.

I honestly think that purgatory is one of the most “Protestant” doctrines. If Catholics stopped calling it “purgatory”, a word which really confuses and frightens Protestants and gets their ‘"fightin’ dander up,", and started referring to I Corinthians 3:12-15 and the “process” of having our “old life” burned away, I think we would make it easier for Protestants to understand. If they believe in I Corinthians 3: 12-15, tHEY believe in purgatory, too, but they don’t call it purgatory.

:yup: :yup: The Wesleys talked about sanctification & holy living…One of the things they repeated over & over, was that everyone has to be wholly cleansed of sin before they can enter Heaven…And what is that, if not purgatory by another name??

 

[Mannyfit75]

NewPerspective, now you’re talkin’! Or maybe I should say, “now you’re readin’!” I hope you like to study!

I’m going to try to help you out on the purgatory question. Remember, I was born and raised evangelical Protestant and I was very involved in the life of the evangelical church for over 40 years. So I have a viewpoint of purgatory that will hopefully make sense to you as a Protestant Christian.

I Corinthians 3:12-15 is what purgatory is.

Purgatory refers to the “purging” of our sins. These verses in I Corinthians talk about the burning away of works of man. The man is still saved, but his inadequate “works” are purged or burned away. Do you believe in this passage of Scripture?

This is what Catholics are talking about when they say “purgatory.”

It’s not “hell” or “another layer of hell” or “an alternative to heaven and hell.” Purgatory is the process that happens to a saved believer after death to get them perfect and free them of their earthly cares and constraints so that they can enter into heaven.

When we die, whatever is in our life that is sinful or self-centered or not Christlike is burned away so that we can enter sinless heaven. (As you know from Revelation, sin cannot enter into heaven.)

When I was Protestant, I believe that this “burning away” happened instantaneously at the time of death.

As a Catholic, I still believe this. I have heard various priests give sermons and present this viewpoint of purgatory.

Other Catholics believe that the “burning” or “purging” process takes longer. Some say thousands of years. Others say a shorter time.

The Catholic Church has not issued an official statement describing the details of purgatory, the “burning away of our sins and works of self that occurs after death.” It is left up to each individual Christian to decide whether purgatory is instantaneous or a long-time process.

With God, there is no “time.” A thousand years in our sight is but a moment for Him. When we die, we are no longer bound by earthly time, but we are in God’s Hands and in His “time.” Purgatory might last less than a nanosecond in human time. We cannot say. That’s why the Church has not issued an official “dogma” or “doctrine.” No one knows exactly how the process takes place.

But I Corinthians 3: 12-15 makes it clear that there is a “burning” process that happens at death to SAVED believers. Catholics call this purgatory. Protestants don’t give it a name, at least, not in the evangelical denominations that I was part of.

Does all this make sense to you? It’s straight out of the Bible. I believed it as a Protestant and I still believe it as a Catholic.

I will continue this on another post, if you don’t mind reading a little more.

You can also pointed this verse out from Philippians. Dave Armstrong mentioned it in his Book, I forgot which one. Dave is a former Evangelical Minister.

Philippians 2:9

Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him a name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the Glory of God the Father.

Ok, let us see, Paul states that in the Name of Jesus every knee on earth (us), and in heaven (saints), and under the earth (purgatory souls) should bow and confess that Jesus is Lord.

There is a third place. Now what is this place. We know there is a heaven and there is an earth (us). Paul also speak of a third place. It isn’t hell because no one there confess that Jesus is Lord nor is God present in Hell. It’s the place of the damn. Hell is a place where you are separated by God.

The only place this “under the earth” is purgatory.