Someone told me that Lent ends on Holy Saturday?

[Big_Ro]

Lent runs from Ash Wednesday to Maundy Thursday (The Mass of The Lord’s Supper). Maundy is an evolved interpretation of the Latin term Mandatum Novem or New Mandate. Christ’s mandate that as Christians our fundemental purpose is to serve our fellow man. However, the confusion may occur because of the misunderstanding of our penetential abstainence during Lent. First, it is voluntary. Therefore, whether or not we decide to abstain from one thing or another, during Lent, is totally a personal decision. Having said this, much to my surprise, I learned, this Lent, that all Fridays are days of absitnence. From meat in particular. And, Good Friday is the most important of all Fridays. So, we are required to abstain on Fridays and on Good Friday in particular. So, even though Lent ends on Holy Thursday, we are required to abstain on Good Friday regardless of whether or not Lent, in your estimation, ends on Maundy Thursday. And, Maundy Thursday begins the Holy Tridium, which is the shortest of the Liturgical Seasons, but a Liturgical Season nonetheless. It calls for abstinence and reflection very similar to Lent. Now, you may chose a different form of abstinence during the Tridium than from what you chose during Lent, but it if you believed that Lent called for abstinenece of some sort, then the Tridium should also call for an even greater level of abstinence, IMHO. Of course, if you did not feel that called to some sort of abstinenece during Lent then, I guess you would not be required to abstain during the Tridium. However, even if you did not chose to abstain during Lent, I think you should, IMHO, abstain during the Tridium. I welcome correction and clarification from my fellow Catholics. Please be gentle.

 

[CB_Catholic]

Lent runs from Ash Wednesday to Maundy Thursday (The Mass of The Lord’s Supper). Maundy is an evolved interpretation of the Latin term Mandatum Novem or New Mandate. Christ’s mandate that as Christians our fundemental purpose is to serve our fellow man. However, the confusion may occur because of the misunderstanding of our penetential abstainence during Lent. First, it is voluntary. Therefore, whether or not we decide to abstain from one thing or another, during Lent, is totally a personal decision. Having said this, much to my surprise, I learned, this Lent, that all Fridays are days of absitnence. From meat in particular. And, Good Friday is the most important of all Fridays. So, we are required to abstain on Fridays and on Good Friday in particular. So, even though Lent ends on Holy Thursday, we are required to abstain on Good Friday regardless of whether or not Lent, in your estimation, ends on Maundy Thursday. And, Maundy Thursday begins the Holy Tridium, which is the shortest of the Liturgical Seasons, but a Liturgical Season nonetheless. It calls for abstinence and reflection very similar to Lent. Now, you may chose a different form of abstinence during the Tridium than from what you chose during Lent, but it if you believed that Lent called for abstinenece of some sort, then the Tridium should also call for an even greater level of abstinence, IMHO. Of course, if you did not feel that called to some sort of abstinenece during Lent then, I guess you would not be required to abstain during the Tridium. However, even if you did not chose to abstain during Lent, I think you should, IMHO, abstain during the Tridium. I welcome correction and clarification from my fellow Catholics. Please be gentle.

We are required to abstain from meat on Ash Wednesday, all the Fridays of Lent (unless dispensed by the Bishop for a solemnity and on Good Friday. We are required to fast on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday. Any other form of fasting or abstainence from something is optional.

In our bulletin it was written that Lent begins on Ash Wednesday and ends with the beginning of the Mass of the Lord’s Supper on Holy Thursday, at which point the Triduum, which is it’s own liturgical season and not part of Lent, begins.

 

[At_Trent]

“Father, does the Triduum fall under the season of Lent or end it ?”

“The Triduum are the last three days of Lent.”

That’s the answer from a priest I asked today. I asked him no further questions. Obviously, Easter begins with the Vigil.

 

[At_Trent]

Going by the Jimmy Akin article, Holy Thusday begins the " Easter Triduum ". That’s where the confusion is. The Triduum is not a season, it fall on the last 3 days of one.

 

[tee_eff_em]

Going by the Jimmy Akin article, Holy Thusday begins the " Easter Triduum ". That’s where the confusion is.

The Triduum is not a season

, it fall on the last 3 days of one.

What makes you say so?

tee

 

[At_Trent]

Going by the Jimmy Akin article, Holy Thusday begins the " Easter Triduum ". That’s where the confusion is. The Triduum is not a season, it fall on the last 3 days of one.

What makes you say so?

tee

Hi tee, I don’t see any need to bicker about it, nor need to prove anything, but I don’t want to ignore a fellow Catholic either. I have never seen or read that the Triduum is a season.

And hey, further clouding the issue, is this on the USCCB site

When does the Triduum begin and end?
The Easter Triduum begins]/B] with the evening Mass of the Lord’s Supper on Holy Thursday, reaches its high point in the Easter Vigil, and closes with Evening Prayer on Easter Sunday.
usccb.org/liturgy/triduumquestions.shtml

So, if we leave Easter morning Mass, we are sill in the Triduum according to that.
I suppose that makes sense since the Triduum does not begin until Thursday evening.

Doesn’t matter anyway, the topic is a distraction.

 

[tee_eff_em]

Hi tee, I don’t see any need to bicker about it, nor need to prove anything, but I don’t want to ignore a fellow Catholic either. I have never seen or read that the Triduum is a season.

You may call it bickering; I call it correcting misinformation. In the same way that I would correct someone who asserts Advent isn’t a season, it’s just a 3 or 4 week countdown before Christmas.

Namely, since I admit I do not know everything, when you assert *The Triduum is not a season *I ask *What makes you say so? *(Which question, I note, you have not answered)

And hey, further clouding the issue, is this on the USCCB site

So, if we leave Easter morning Mass, we are sill in the Triduum according to that.
I suppose that makes sense since the Triduum does not begin until Thursday evening.

I do not see a problem there – In fact, the USCCB site precisely quotes the General Norms for the Liturgical Year and the Calendar #19 on the duration of the Triduum.

Doesn’t matter anyway, the topic is a distraction.

I fail to see how the *topic is a distraction *when the question is When is the end of Lent? ??

tee

PS: You don’t want to ignore a fellow Catholic? What is Jimmy Akin, chopped liver!?

 

[CMatt25]

Yes, this is true.

Well it must not be true that a Vigil must be after sunset this Sat. Orleans Attny posted about it being up to the diocean bishop to determine. And as I posted at my parish to satisfy my obligation I can attend Vigils at either 4 or 6 in broad daylight this coming Sat afternoon or early evening, both before the later Vigil with Rite of Initiation.

Peace and a Blessed next few days and Happy Easter to all of you traditionalists here on CAF.

 

[Orleans_Attny]

So here is a link that lists the liturgical seasons:

Ordinary Time X2
Advent
Christmas
Lent
Easter

The triduum is listed within Lent, and Lent ends on Holy Saturday, which sort of makes sense because if Lent doesn’t end on Holy Saturday then Lent isn’t 40 days long.

Here is a link that seems to indicate the opposite (but the author must be math challenged since he or she says Lent is exactly 40 days, inclusive of Ash Wednesday, exclusive of Sundays, and ending on Holy Thurdsay. What?)

Here is another link that shows Lent ending on Holy Saturday, and that the Triduum is not a liturgical season.

And Here is another link showing that Lent ends on Holy Saturday.

To make things yet more confusing: The Table of Contents in my Liturgy of the Hours (Vol. II) lists the following “Proper Seasons”:

Lenten Season I: before Holy Week
Lenten Season II: Holy Week
Easter Triduum
Easter Season I: before Ascension
Easter Seasons II: after Ascension

I give up.

Pax,
OA

 

[CMatt25]

I give up.

Pax,
OA

Oh well nevetheless Happy Easter OA.

 

[At_Trent]

tee, let’s recap

Going by the Jimmy Akin article, Holy Thusday begins the " Easter Triduum ". That’s where the confusion is. The Triduum is not a season, it falls on the last 3 days of one.

What makes you say so?

tee

Hi tee, I don’t see any need to bicker about it, nor need to prove anything, but I don’t want to ignore a fellow Catholic either. I have never seen or read that the Triduum is a season.

And hey, further clouding the issue, is this on the USCCB site

So, if we leave Easter morning Mass, we are sill in the Triduum according to that.
I suppose that makes sense since the Triduum does not begin until Thursday evening.

Doesn’t matter anyway, the topic is a distraction.

You may call it bickering; I call it correcting misinformation. In the same way that I would correct someone who asserts Advent isn’t a season, it’s just a 3 or 4 week countdown before Christmas.

Namely, since I admit I do not know everything, when you assert *The Triduum is not a season *I ask *What makes you say so? *(Which question, I note, you have not answered)

I answered " I have never seen or read that the Triduum is a season."

I do not see a problem there – In fact, the USCCB site precisely quotes the General Norms for the Liturgical Year and the Calendar #19 on the duration of the Triduum.

I fail to see how the *topic is a distraction *when the question is When is the end of Lent? ??

distraction from Lent and the Triduum itself tee, that’s what I meant

tee

PS: You don’t want to ignore a fellow Catholic? What is Jimmy Akin, chopped liver!?

you are angry tee I cited him, not ignore him or question what I took from the text

lol, here, I’m turning it over to my attorney who saved me a lot of keystokes
Thank you OA

So here is a link that lists the liturgical seasons:

Ordinary Time X2
Advent
Christmas
Lent
Easter

The triduum is listed within Lent, and Lent ends on Holy Saturday, which sort of makes sense because if Lent doesn’t end on Holy Saturday then Lent isn’t 40 days long.

Here is a link that seems to indicate the opposite (but the author must be math challenged since he or she says Lent is exactly 40 days, inclusive of Ash Wednesday, exclusive of Sundays, and ending on Holy Thurdsay. What?)

Here is another link that shows Lent ending on Holy Saturday, and that the Triduum is not a liturgical season.

And Here is another link showing that Lent ends on Holy Saturday.

To make things yet more confusing: The Table of Contents in my Liturgy of the Hours (Vol. II) lists the following “Proper Seasons”:

Lenten Season I: before Holy Week
Lenten Season II: Holy Week
Easter Triduum
Easter Season I: before Ascension
Easter Seasons II: after Ascension

I give up.

Pax,
OA

There we have it Somewhere along the line, something happened and has lead to this confusion. Perhaps some Cardinal who isn’t sure either will bring it up at the next Council

 

[NeedImprovement]

Well it must not be true that a Vigil must be after sunset this Sat. Orleans Attny posted about it being up to the diocean bishop to determine. And as I posted at my parish to satisfy my obligation I can attend Vigils at either 4 or 6 in broad daylight this coming Sat afternoon or early evening, both before the later Vigil with Rite of Initiation.

Peace and a Blessed next few days and Happy Easter to all of you traditionalists here on CAF.

That would be welcome news to our Catholics living in the far North … I’ve been up there (Iqualuit ; 63°44′55″N 068°31′11″W ) in April and at 10:00 pm at night the sunlight/daylight looks like it does at about 2:00 pm everywhere else… Good thing they leave this decision up to the individual dioceses.

 

[CatholicZ09]

Well, I was reading through the official church document “Paschales Solemnitatis” and this is what it says:

1. During Holy Week the Church celebrates the mysteries of salvation accomplished by Christ in the last days of his life on earth, beginning with his messianic entrance into Jerusalem.

The Lenten season lasts until the Thursday of this week. The Easter Triduum begins with the evening Mass of the Lord’s Supper, is continued through Good Friday with the celebration of the passion of the Lord and Holy Saturday, reaches its summit in the Easter Vigil, and concludes with Vespers of Easter Sunday.

And:

1. The Easter fast is sacred on the first two days of the Triduum, during which, according to ancient tradition, the Church fasts “because the Spouse has been taken away.”[43] Good Friday is a day of fasting and abstinence; it is also recommended that Holy Saturday be so observed, in order that the Church with uplifted and welcoming heart be ready to celebrate the joys of the Sunday of the resurrection.[44]

Our Paschal fasting and penance should last until the Easter Vigil, however, at the Evening Mass of the Lord’s Supper, it is the beginning of the Easter Triduum.

 

[Phemie]

Well it must not be true that a Vigil must be after sunset this Sat. Orleans Attny posted about it being up to the diocean bishop to determine. And as I posted at my parish to satisfy my obligation I can attend Vigils at either 4 or 6 in broad daylight this coming Sat afternoon or early evening, both before the later Vigil with Rite of Initiation.

That’s not what the Church’s own document on how Easter is to be celebrated says.

Paschale Solemnitatis says this:

A. The Easter Vigil
77. According to a most ancient tradition, this night is “one of vigil for the Lord”, (79) and the Vigil celebrated during it, to commemorate that holy night when the Lord rose from the dead, is regarded as the “mother of all holy vigils”. (80) For in that night the Church keeps vigil, waiting for the resurrection of the Lord, and celebrates the sacraments of Christian initiation. (81)
1. The meaning of the nocturnal character of the Easter Vigil
78. “The entire celebration of the Easter Vigil takes place at night. It should not begin before nightfall; it should end before daybreak on Sunday”. (82) This rule is to be taken according to its strictest sense. Reprehensible are those abuses and practices which have crept in in many places in violation of this ruling, whereby the Easter Vigil is celebrated at the time of day that it is customary to celebrate anticipated Sunday Masses. (83)
Those reasons which have been advanced in some quarters for the anticipation of the Easter Vigil, such as lack of public order, are not put forward in connection with Christmas night, nor other gatherings of various kinds.

 

[Big_Ro]

Going by the Jimmy Akin article, Holy Thusday begins the " Easter Triduum ". That’s where the confusion is. The Triduum is not a season, it fall on the last 3 days of one.

With all due respect…I believe you are mistakeen. The Easter Tridium is a Liturgical Season un to itself. It is the shortest of all Liturgical Seasons but a season nonetheless.

 

[CMatt25]

“The entire celebration of the Easter Vigil takes place at night. It should not begin before nightfall; it should end before daybreak on Sunday”. (82) This rule is to be taken according to its strictest sense. Reprehensible are those abuses and practices which have crept in in many places in violation of this ruling, whereby the Easter Vigil is celebrated at the time of day that it is customary to celebrate anticipated Sunday Masses. (83)Those reasons which have been advanced in some quarters for the anticipation of the Easter Vigil, such as lack of public order, are not put forward in connection with Christmas night, nor other gatherings of various kinds.

Phemie, well then I guess my bishop is reprehensible. I am unclear though what is meant about Christmas night in the last sentence. We have Christmas Eve Masses as early as 3:30 in the afternoon. In any event, whenever you celebrate this Easter, have a most blessed, holy one with our Lord!

 

[Angel_Bradford]

LENT FIGHT! :slapfight:

See the articles under “DURATION” – Lent is approximately 40 days long.
PS: The correct answer to the OP may also be found there: Lent runs from Ash Wednesday until the Mass of the Lord’s Supper exclusive.

:tiphat:
tee

 

[Speramus]

Regardless of whether or not you call the last three of the 40 days part of Lent, our “penitential journey” has not ended quite yet.
(Click below)
img69.imageshack.us/img69/8730/stoneofshame.jpg
youtube.com/watch?v=PjeVB7Me1yA

Seriously, considering that the Triduum includes one of the two fast days left in the Roman Catholic calendar, this does not seem like a suitable time to end our Lenten sacrifices, as is sometimes suggested. If anything, the days of our Lord’s passion and death ought to be days of stricter penance, not laxer, IMHO.

 

[At_Trent]

Regardless of whether or not you call the last three of the 40 days part of Lent, our “penitential journey” has not ended quite yet.
(Click below)
img69.imageshack.us/img69/8730/stoneofshame.jpg
youtube.com/watch?v=PjeVB7Me1yA

Seriously, considering that the Triduum includes one of the two fast days left in the Roman Catholic calendar, this does not seem like a suitable time to end our Lenten sacrifices, as is sometimes suggested. If anything, the days of our Lord’s passion and death ought to be days of stricter penance, not laxer, IMHO.

That, we all can agree on

 

[At_Trent]

With all due respect…I believe you are mistakeen. The Easter Tridium is a Liturgical Season un to itself. It is the shortest of all Liturgical Seasons but a season nonetheless.

Where have you read the Triduum is a Liturgical Season unto itself ? Is there a link in this thread I missed ?

I asked a priest. His answer leads me to believe the Triduum falls during Lent. As far as the conflicting articles and such, I use the 40 days as a tiebreaker, which shows Saturday as the 40th day.

Give me a link, and I’ll check it out.