Something else I don't understand---

[oneofmany]

People who are suffering are told to unite their sufferings with Jesus’ sufferings on the cross. If we did this doesn’t that make Jesus’ sufferings more intense? It can’t mean that but I don’t know what it means.

 

[808Catholic]

People who are suffering are told to unite their sufferings with Jesus’ sufferings on the cross. If we did this doesn’t that make Jesus’ sufferings more intense? It can’t mean that but I don’t know what it means.

Maybe a change of perspective might help: remember that Jesus is God-man. His sufferings are real because He had the nature of man but He was also God with unlimited power, strength, and love. For us, He bore the sins of all humanity because He is the Faithful Son of God and chose to suffer for us all. When you do something that is for a grieving friend, you feel part of your friend’s loss but don’t you gladly do this for a friend? Think how much more Jesus bears our sins and suffering as Our Brother and Our Lord.

 

[Petaro]

It is obviously not a quantitative addition of suffering, rather that we share in some mystical sense with the salvivic \power of Christ’s salvation. Now I have read the Book of Job, which, to be quire honest, is all rather depressing. I have read the Papal Encyclical on Human Suffering, but I have not the slightest understanding as to how a loving God interacts with a fallen world and not assist His children in their sufferings in this vale of tears.
Despite this, my faith does not waiver nor my hope in the promises of Christ.
Thus I offer my personal pain to the intentions of Our Lady, with the caveat that she does not forget the intentions of those I have sinned with in my life.

 

[Doug_Kraeger]

People who are suffering are told to unite their sufferings with Jesus’ sufferings on the cross. If we did this doesn’t that make Jesus’ sufferings more intense? It can’t mean that but I don’t know what it means.

You are right, it can’t mean that. St. Paul wrote in Colossians 1:24, " Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ on behalf of His Body, which is the Church, of which I am a minister in accordance with God’s stewardship given to me…" When we unite our suffering with that of Christ for His Church (all sinners CCC 579), we fill up what is lacking in the infinite value of Christ’s suffering, we add our part in atonement for sin.
God gives us free will and knows when we will conform our will to His Divine Will in thankfulness for the privilege of suffering a small amount for our sins and the sins of others. He does not force us to do this, He eventually gives us the grace to acknowledge that we do not deserve anything good because of our past sins and yet, if we are truly sorry for all past sins and resolve to sin no more, we have a chance for God’s mercy to eventually let us into heaven if we persevere, and to show how thankful we are for this possibility and to show God that we really want to do all we can to undo, make up for, atone for, past sins (even though we really can’t) we are willing to joyfully offer up our crosses in imitation of Christ for all sinners. It is good to “resolutely unite our prayer with the prayer of Jesus” (CCC 2741) when we do offer up our sufferings with Jesus, and in that way we acquire the Holy Spirit praying for us the exact same prayer as Jesus eternally offers the Father for all sinners.

 

[glendab]

Hello Oneofmany.

People who are suffering are told to unite their sufferings with Jesus’ sufferings on the cross. If we did this doesn’t that make Jesus’ sufferings more intense? It can’t mean that but I don’t know what it means.

Thanks for the honesty. Some never admit they don’t know something. It is an act of humility. Good job.

Jesus asked us to follow Him and He went to the Cross. From the trauma of being born to the dying gasps in the death rattle, life has pain and suffering in it. It is one of those things you can count on. That’s life. To be able to take that and make an offering of it to God in union with His is truly a gift. Redemptive suffering. It is a hard concept to get for some, especially these days when the pursuit of personal happiness and pleasures seems by our societal norms to be the highest aim of human life. Most take that pursuit very seriously. Pleasures seem the right thing to pursue and in some contexts they are. Legitimate pleasures that is. The knowledge of the difference between legitimate pleasures and disordered desires is given by the Church and is also an essential instruction for life.

I can give a little advise about how to grow in the understanding of the principle of Redemptive suffering. Read through the Passion in the Bible every day for one month and pray to the Holy Spirit to give you insight into the Mystery of Redemptive Suffering each day before opening the Book and thank Him when you close it. You will grow in understanding. ** I guarantee it. ** His Word is alive and accomplishes the purpose for which it was written, but you gotta ask and actually read the Book.

Glenda

P.S. Once you have done this, make a simple Morning Offering prayer and ta da! Whatever tribulations you have during the course of your day, whether that is the dull ache of arthritis or a flat tire on the way to work, you will be saving souls with it and pouring graces upon your loved ones if that is your desire in your heart when you make the offering. You’ll see this in a similar way as the Father did when He sent His Son to die for us: a gift of suffering in love for those you love that can only be given this way.

 

[glendab]

Hello again ONeofmany. Here is a simple Morning Offering Prayer from EWTN. you can find more if you look. There is usually one of several versions contained in most simple Catholic Prayer books. The more you do it, the more the Holy Spirit will move your heart to understand its value and place in your prayer life.

Glenda

**The Morning Offering **

*O Jesus,
through the Immaculate Heart of Mary,
I offer You my prayers, works,
joys and sufferings
of this day for all the intentions
of Your Sacred Heart,
in union with the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass
throughout the world,
in reparation for my sins,
for the intentions of all my relatives and friends,
and in particular
for the intentions of the Holy Father.

Amen.*

(This one is very similar to the version I use, only I direct mine towards the help of my family members towards conversion.)

ewtn.com/Devotionals/prayers/morning2.htm

 

[josh987654321]

People who are suffering are told to unite their sufferings with Jesus’ sufferings on the cross. If we did this doesn’t that make Jesus’ sufferings more intense? It can’t mean that but I don’t know what it means.

I hope you don’t mind if I share with you my take on it.

Suppose there was a bully in the playground and this bully wanted you to join him in making other peoples lives miserable by bullying them, suppose you said ‘no’ to this bully, you stood up to him and said “No! I will never be a bully.” Now the bully wants to beat you into submission, he wants to hurt you so violently and brutally that you will give into his will. Now as this bully is beating you up, you look around and all you see is other people who have already joined the bully and are cheering him on as he beats you up, so violant and brutal is the beating that you know you are going to die from it.

Now as this bully is beating you to death and you are struggling to endure this beating, you can barely endure anymore, you have the omnciscience of God and pause, flash forward, you see another kid, in the same situation as you were, and this other kid is confronted with the same proposition as you were by the bully, but the difference is that this kid was there, watching from a distance at the beating you recieved from the hands of that bully.

Now this kid, terrified of the fate that awaits him, looks back at what happened to you, he remembers the strength and courage you had in enduring that beating, in standing up and saying ‘No!’ to the bully, and due to the vision of what you had suffered, finds the courage to say the exact same thing and stand up just as you did to the bully.

Now flash back. You are being beaten to death, but something has changed, you know that from this beating others such as that kid will draw strength and courage, as seeing the way you sufferred, will also conquer this bully. Now you are consumed with love and strength to endure this beating for that kid, to help him.

I can suffer very little, but for my beloved, I can suffer much more.

In a similar way, I believe when we unite our Cross, our sufferings with Christ’s, it is the same as when that ‘kid’ in the future, draws strength and courage from your sufferings. The kid didn’t increase your sufferings by ‘uniting them with yours’ he helped you endure it, because he showed you that your sufferings were not in vain and fruitless, but on the contrary, would be the ‘life raft’ for so many other kids. And likewise, you have shown that kid that his sufferrings will not be in vain and fruitless either, but will also be your ‘life raft’

Thus I believe when we unite our sufferings with Christ’s on the Cross, we help him carry that redeeming cross that would save mankind, and thus bceome co-redeemers with Christ.
Jesus to Catalina:

The Passion - loveandmercy.org/Eng-TP-Reg.pdf

**5) The fatigue that I feel is so great and the Cross so heavy that halfway along the path, I fall from weakness. See how those inhuman men lift Me up in the most brutal manner. One grabs My arm, another pulls My clothes that are stuck to My wounds, tearing them open again… This one grabs Me by the neck, another by the hair; others discharge dreadful blows to My whole Body, with their fists, and even with their feet. The Cross falls upon Me and with its weight causes new wounds. My face is scraped by the stones in the road and the blood which runs down My face sticks to My eyes that are almost closed because of the blows they have received. The dust and the mud mingle with the blood and I am turned into the most repugnant of objects.

1. My Father sends Angels to help support Me so that My Body does not lose consciousness when it falls, so that the battle may not be won before its time and all My souls are lost.
2. I walk over the stones that destroy My feet. I stumble and fall time and time again. I look at both sides of the road, searching for the slightest look of love, of surrender, of union with My pain, but… I do not see anyone.
3. My children, you who follow in My footsteps, do not let go of your cross no matter how heavy it seems to you. Do it for Me because by carrying your cross, you will help Me carry Mine, and on the difficult path, you will find My Mother and the holy souls who will give you encouragement and comfort.**

Thus, I believe it can work both ways, we can endure much more for our beloved (Christ) in order to help Him in carrying His Cross that would redeem all of mankind, and He helps us carry our crosses, by being the loved one by our side saying “Please keep going, I need you, everytime you let go of your Cross, the weight of this Cross falls heavier on me.” and because of the love we have for Christ, we are consumed with love and strength to soldier on for Him.
Jesus to Catalina:

I Have Given My Life for You - loveandmercy.org/Eng-IHG-Reg.pdf

The good completely focused on My sufferings and the evil focused on your sufferings

Please continue to next post -

 

[josh987654321]

Knowing that uniting our sufferings to Christ will help Him during His sufferings on the Cross that would redeem all of mankind, I believe we can experience the joy Christ did.
Jesus to Catalina:

From Sinai to Calvary - loveandmercy.org/Eng-FSC-Reg.pdf

**10) “…you can see and understand with greater ease, why human suffering makes sense when it is endured for love’s sake, desiring to fulfill the Divine Will. And it is that the greatest pain, as intense as it may be, does not diminish the joy in the heart of those who sweeten themselves with the greatest Love.”
…

1. “It is precisely because of that boundless love which, in the midst of My unfathomable suffering, I did not lose confidence in My Father. But rather, I was being overcome by immense joy in knowing that I was fulfilling His Will and, thus, demonstrating My Love for Him and for all mankind.”**

I believe he experienced this because he was suffering for us, I believe we can experience this also when we are suffering for Him. To say “I unite this Cross with yours Jesus, This will help you to carry your Cross, your Cross that will redeem all of mankind.”

“When suffering is accepted with love, it is no longer suffering, but it is changed into joy.” - St. Therese

Anyway, this is my understanding of it so far, I apologise for the poor explanation, I am still trying to understand and find a way to put it into words or to articulate best how I believe it works (this is my first attempt). Please feel free to disregard this if it doesn’t help.

I hope this has helped

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[oneofmany]

That does help. I guess it’s like offering up to God our sufferings for the poor souls in purgatory but along with the sufferings of Jesus on the cross.

We can pray for God to use our sufferings for sinners when we are in a bad situation, I just cannot see how Jesus is still offering up His sufferings on the cross when He did it once and for all when He died. Jesus died for our sins centuries ago.

 

[HelenRose]

People who are suffering are told to unite their sufferings with Jesus’ sufferings on the cross. If we did this doesn’t that make Jesus’ sufferings more intense? It can’t mean that but I don’t know what it means.

It is possible that this is like people who suffer will find help when they can share their grief with another who has lived the pain and understand.

I know that when my seven year old granddaughter was killed, I saw my daughter’s face in Mary as we prayed the Stations of the Cross. Every Station told me that Christ understood my daughter’s suffering for He could see it in His Mother’s eyes. And, I also knew that Mary understood not only my daughter’s suffering but the pain I felt for my daughter.

 

[HelenRose]

Perhaps in this shared suffering we have a greater compassion and love for those who suffer, not only those here on Earth but the souls in purgatory. It becomes a way of healing the sorrow of the world.

 

[Doug_Kraeger]

That does help. I guess it’s like offering up to God our sufferings for the poor souls in purgatory but along with the sufferings of Jesus on the cross.

We can pray for God to use our sufferings for sinners when we are in a bad situation, I just cannot see how Jesus is still offering up His sufferings on the cross when He did it once and for all when He died. Jesus died for our sins centuries ago.

Remember that Jesus Christ is true God and true man. As God He has only one, single, infinite, eternal, always in the present tense thought, Word, and therefore he is eternally thinking everything in the present tense. As man, the Church teaches that He always beheld the Beatific vision, always beheld in His mind, God and therefore He was filled with truly infinite graces as we will be if we, by God’s mercy, get to heaven and see God face to face and partial knowledge ceases (CCC 314). As God/Man He is eternally offering His suffering and death in the present tense for each sinner at every point of their lives. When Jesus was on the cross, He knew everything that will or could happen in time and therefore He knew when and how well each person would " resolutely unite their prayers with the prayer of Jesus" and therefore receive also the Holy Spirit (CCC 2741). He is “still offering up His sufferings on the cross” for each sinner because He is true God and Man and has only one, single, infinite, eternal, always in the present tense thought, just as He had as He suffered and died. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

 

[fred_conty]

“The language of the cross may be illogical to those who are not on the way to salvation, but those of us who are on the way see it as God’s power to save… And so , while the Jews demand miracles, and the Greeks look for wisdom, here we are preaching the crucified Christ; to the Jews an obstacle that they cannot get over, to the pagans maddness, but to those who have
been called, whether they are Jews or Greeks, a Christ who is the power and the wisdom of God.” (I Cor. 17)

“In Him we have redeemption in his blood…”, (Eph 1;7)

“I am now rejoicing in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am completing what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body that is the church.” (I Col 24)

“Just as you share in sufferings so you will share in the divine glory.” (II Corinthians 1:7).

(From the Sacred Heart Prayer Book.)
I(Jesus) went up to Calvery to fulfill My office of Priest, by offering to My Father the sacrifice of my life, as a sacrifice of sweet savor, alone capable of appeasing Him. I was at one and the same time both Priest and Victim. Being both Priest and Victim, I addressed Myself to God, and offered Him as Victim, a God immolated to his glory. This sacrifice of Calvary I renew every day, by the ministry of the Priest in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, which is a representation of the Sacrifice of the Cross. There I offer Myself, no longer in a bloody manner, as on the Cross, but it is nevertheless a true sacrifice which is offered, and I am there still as priest and victim, Sacrifice and sacrificed, God immolating and God immolated. It is still the same victim which is offered to God, for He is the only victim which is pleasing to Him, the only one for which he asks, the only one which he is willing to accept.

You, O Christian, like the riest, are my other self; consequently, you are a priest also, seeing that you resemble me and I am a priest forever. Your Priesthood as a Christian, is but a participation in mine, which is given to you by baptism, whereas the priest is the very reality of my priesthood, which is given to him by the sacrament of Holy Orders.

Baptism gives you spiritual life; all life comes from God and should return to God. This return of yourself, who have received life of him who gave it, is your sacrifice, and this sacrifice requires a sacrificer; a priest. Every Christian is a priest. Every priest offers a victim. The victim which you as a priest-Christian offer to God is yourself. Your body, your soul, your faculties, all that is in you. Every victim that is immolated requires a temple, a place consecrated for sacrifice. Your heart is your temple.