Something I have been pondering

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cyberwolf001

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Let’s say someone HATES the vocation God has given them, there miserable in it. Literally to the point of depression. But out of obedience to Our Lord do this vocation to the best of ones will.

Would this person be in sin?
 
Need more information.

There are three vocations: married life, single, ordained. Within those three, there are many ways you can live out your vocation, including career. Changing careers, even if you feel God called you to a particular career is not denying your vocation.

If one is married or ordained, there are limits on what changes you can make because these states involve promises and vows to others. But there is still much to be done to alleviate misery. The single vocation is not permanent.
 
For this example will go with Ordained as it has the fewest things one can change in it.

Our theoretical Catholic HAS been called to the collar in an order of the Latin Rite regardless of how much or little they like it. Yet has always wanted to marry, not for sex, but because they wanted a family.

Our Priest is a great one. Works his tail off for his congregation, and is among the best things to happen to his parish.

Yet when the day is over and he goes “off duty” our theoretical priest is utterly lonely for human companionship and hates the loneliness of it. An has to fight like a madman against visions of what could have been if he’d married and had a wife and child.
 
Your question was “would this person be in sin?”

He is certainly not in sin to continue in his vocation to the best of his ablility.

He would also not, in my opinion, be in sin if he sought to make a change as long as he did it in accord with his ordination promises. If lonliness is the main issue, for example, he could look to be transferred to a position where there is more living in community. Priests even transfer from secular to orders. If the desire to raise children is the big issue, perhaps work in an orphange, homeless shelter or mission would be more fulfilling.

There is always the possibility of petitioning for a release from vows and the clerical state. That would be an extreme choice but still not sinful if he did it the right way through the proper channels.
 
I know people are going to come through my cable connection to stangle me for saying this, but I kinda wish Priests could get married.
I just can’t imagine life without my wife and kids…well, I can imagine life without my kids and often do, but that’s not the point here.

I think your hypothetical priest should leave the priesthood.
If he was called to be a priest, but then has an overwhelming need for a family, then I say, his calling has changed to marriage. What? God can’t change his mind? Tell that to the Dinosaurs.
 
Really?

I was always under the impression of God calls you to the priesthood it is sinful to ignore that call or reject it. An the most a person could do is pray God makes them like it.

As for the Religious communities. Don’t they have this whole, oath of silence and no socializing rule among them?
 
Deist said:
I know people are going to come through my cable connection to stangle me for saying this, but I kinda wish Priests could get married.
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You know they can in every rite of the Church EXCEPT the Latin Rite. Beyond Priest and Monsignor (which is really just an honorary title given to Priests) you have to be celibate.
 
cyberwolf001 said:
You know they can in every rite of the Church EXCEPT the Latin Rite. Beyond Priest and Monsignor (which is really just an honorary title given to Priests) you have to be celibate.
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I don’t know what you are talking about.
Priests, as far as I know, have to be married to God, just like Nuns.
 
cyberwolf001 said:
You know they can in every rite of the Church EXCEPT the Latin Rite. Beyond Priest and Monsignor (which is really just an honorary title given to Priests) you have to be celibate.
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Not exactly. In no rite, not even in the Orthodox churches, can a priest get married. In the Eastern rites, a married man can be ordained. Even in the Latin rite, married men have been ordained but it is rare these days.
 
cyberwolf001 said:
Really?

I was always under the impression of God calls you to the priesthood it is sinful to ignore that call or reject it. An the most a person could do is pray God makes them like it.

As for the Religious communities. Don’t they have this whole, oath of silence and no socializing rule among them?
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There is grave matter and there is culpability. Since God does not send you a certified letter, lots of people misinterpret thier vocation, sometimes sinfully but more often out of fear or misunderstanding. Many men have ignored the call to the priesthood and married instead. As a wise poster said recently when someone asked about the opposite situation (married person realizing he may have ignored a call to the priesthood), once you take the vow, that becomes your vocation and God expects you to live that vocation out to the best of your ability.

You are thinking of monestaries. There are many religious communities that work in the world. One example is the Francisan Friars of Renewal, Fr. Grochel’s order, that works with the poor and homeless. The Paulists are primarily teachers and catechists, the Jesuits are primarily in education, the Basilians are primarily in missionary work, the Passionists work a lot in parish renewal and spititual direction etc.
 
Eastern and Western Christian churches have different traditions concerning clerical celibacy. These differences and the resulting controversies have played a role in the relationship between the two groups in some Western countries.

Most Eastern Churches distinguish between “monastic” and “non-monastic” clergy. Monastics do not necessarily live as monks or in monasteries, but have spent at least part of their period of training in such a context. Their monastic vows include a vow of celibate chastity.

Bishops are normally selected from the monastic clergy, and in most Eastern Churches a large percentage of priests and deacons also are celibate, while a portion of the clergy (typically, parish priests) may be married. If a future priest or deacon is to be married, his marriage must take place before ordination to the diaconate. While in some countries the marriage continues usually to be arranged by the families, cultural changes sometimes make it difficult for such seminarians to find women prepared to be the wife of a priest, necessitating a hiatus in the seminarians’ studies.

In countries where Eastern traditions prevail among Christians, a married clergy caused little controversy; but it aroused opposition in other countries to which Eastern Catholics immigrated. In response to requests from the Latin bishops of those countries, the Sacred Congregation for the Propagation of the Faith set out rules in a letter of 2 May 1890 to the Archbishop of Paris,[28] which the Congregation applied on 1 May 1897 to the United States,[29] stating that only celibates or widowed priests coming without their children should be permitted in the United States. This rule was restated with special reference to Catholics of Ruthenian Rite by the 1 March 1929 decree Cum data fuerit, which was renewed for a further ten years in 1939. Dissatisfaction by many Ruthenian Catholics in the United States gave rise to the American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese.

Some Eastern Catholic Churches have decided to adopt mandatory clerical celibacy, as in the Latin Church. They include the Syriac Catholic Church, the Syro-Malankara Catholic Church and the Ethiopic Catholic Church.
 
<<Yet when the day is over and he goes “off duty” our theoretical priest is utterly lonely for human companionship and hates the loneliness of it. An has to fight like a madman against visions of what could have been if he’d married and had a wife and child.>>

This is not a sin. This is just the way it is.

Whether one is ordained, professed, married, or single by choice, there’s always the little corner that wonders what life would have been like if some little thing were different.

If the priest in question WERE laicized, how does he know he’d be able to find a wife?
 
cyberwolf001 said:
…Our theoretical Catholic HAS been called to the collar in an order of the Latin Rite regardless of how much or little they like it. Yet has always wanted to marry, not for sex, but because they wanted a family
Our Priest is a great one. Works his tail off for his congregation, and is among the best things to happen to his parish.

Yet when the day is over and he goes “off duty” our theoretical priest is utterly lonely for human companionship and hates the loneliness of it. An has to fight like a madman against visions of what could have been if he’d married and had a wife and child.
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God invites, but He doesn’t coerce. The discernment process of vocations should address a man’s desire for a family *before *he takes vows to be a priest. If a man really hates the idea of becoming a priest, he needs to discuss this with his spiritual director and vocations director *before *he makes his vows.

If a priest spends his time fantasizing about marriage, this hypothetical priest really can’t be such a “great priest” as you said he is, just as a married man can’t really be a great husband if he spends his time fantasizing about some other wife. As long as he fights off such visions, I would compare such struggles and temptations as those of a married man who must still keep a close watch on his eyes when he encounters a beautiful woman who is not his wife.

The desire for a wife and family is a beautiful and holy thing, and it is proper for those called to the priesthood to have such desires. Priests give up things on a natural level so they can experience those very same things on a supernatural level. Jesus shares His bride, the Church, with priests. Priests have a family–God’s family. Priests have spiritual children, which is why we call priests “father”.

In the discernment process we should recognize that God calls all men to “fatherhood” and all women to “motherhood”, but He plans for some to be *physical *fathers and mothers, while others become spiritual fathers and mothers. God calls most people to marriage and natural parenthood. Some married men and women that greatly desire children face infertility, (they might be called to become adoptive parents, but maybe not.) Other people may feel called to married life, yet live many years of lonliness as they await a suitable marriage partner. Such persons may be called to spiritual fatherhood and motherhood through service to the community. (Personally, I think infertility or inability to find a suitable spouse would be a much heavier burden than voluntary celibacy.)

In the vocation to the priesthood or religious life, God invites men and women to be spiritual fathers and spiritual mothers, participating with Him by taking on and serving His family as their own. If someone really hates the idea of becoming a priest, then they may not have an accurate vision of what the priesthood really means.
 
cyberwolf001 said:
Really?

I was always under the impression of God calls you to the priesthood it is sinful to ignore that call or reject it. An the most a person could do is pray God makes them like it.

As for the Religious communities. Don’t they have this whole, oath of silence and no socializing rule among them?
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If one feels one has a vocation but has reservations about it, they certainly should not follow that vocation unless they clear up their reservations and feel better about things. One of the signs of vocation is an attraction to the life. Also, I would certainly hope that in the seminary, the students are given full knowledge of the problems of being an ordained secuar priest - and loneliness has been a longstanding problem with the priesthood. They would also be aware that they just may wind up living alone and so would need to be confident they can cope with this.
If a priest feels that he really can no longer go on living as he must after speaking with his Bishop and making him fully aware, he could of course asked to be liaised and hence no longer a priest. I hear it is a long process. Here in Australia they can take a break from the priesthood if the Bishop is in agreement or recommends it. Too much stress on any person no matter vocation will bring about potentially a breakdown…even a serious breakdown and psychosis. This could be failing in charity to oneself or if the priest is talking with his Bishop who is not sympathetic, then the Bishop could be at fault. It could also call The Church into question.

As for religious communities…no, most of them nowadays do not keep silence all the time - most have at least one hour of recreation daily in enclosed contemplative communities…they can socialize during this hour. Also they see relatives and friends in the parlour - some Orders do restrict this to monthly. But others allow more frequency. In the active orders most often the opportunities to talk and socialize outside the convent or conventual setting are most daily. All the enclosed communities I know of that keep strict silence, do allow talking that is absolutely necessary. Once upon a time they had to use sign language…some Orders may retain this but none that I know personally about.
 
cyberwolf001 said:
Let’s say someone HATES the vocation God has given them, there miserable in it. Literally to the point of depression. But out of obedience to Our Lord do this vocation to the best of ones will.

Would this person be in sin?
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if one truly hates the vocation, it is highly doubtful that he has chosen the vocation God intended for him, or that he discerned his choice adequately under good guidance in the first place. The essential need for someone who finds himself in this position is first of all good spiritual direction. If the misery stems from other circumstances within the vocation, then appropriate counselling or help to address those circumstances is also in order (marriage counselling, working within the authority of a religious order to resolve disagreements, etc.).
 
cyberwolf001 said:
Really?

I was always under the impression of God calls you to the priesthood it is sinful to ignore that call or reject it. An the most a person could do is pray God makes them like it.

As for the Religious communities. Don’t they have this whole, oath of silence and no socializing rule among them?
Click to expand...
what gave you the idea it is a sin to reject a vocation?
if a guy proposes to you is it a sin to reject him?
and religious orders each have their own disciplines, some do enjoin silence at certain times, but one of the charisms of a religious order is community life. One of the charisms of priesthood in the Latin rite is celibacy. One who truly has a vocation is given the charisms needed and the graces needed to carry out the vocation through the sacrament in which he embraces that vocation. Just as one of the effects of matrimony is the grace needed to carry the heavy burdens of that vocation. If one feels entirely lacking in the necessary charisms of a vocation, it is probably a sign that he is mistaken in his assumption that God is calling him to that vocation. again, competent spiritual direction is indicated.
 
Deist said:
I don’t know what you are talking about.
Priests, as far as I know, have to be married to God, just like Nuns.
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I think we need a Religious Life 101 course here. Please do not offer your personal opinion or misinformation as fact, especially when you admit you do not know the facts.

In the Latin Rite the priest, when in persona Cristi (in the person of Christ) is, like Christ, married to the Church, and his fidelity and duties of his vocation are rendered to her. The nun (in an order which takes vows and makes profession to this effect) is, as a member of the Church and as a person dedicated to life in service within and for the Church, is the bride of Christ.
 
cyberwolf001 said:
in it.

Our theoretical Catholic HAS been called to the collar in an order of the Latin Rite regardless of how much or little they like it. Yet has always wanted to marry, not for sex, but because they wanted a family.

Our .
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if he hates the idea of celibate life, and has always wanted to marry and have a family, he was mistaken in his vocation, as it is much more likely that marriage was his vocation, and he failed to discern properly. you might want to be a little less romantic and imaginative, and a bit more realistic and grounded, before you discuss this situation further. You also might like to spend more time on the vocations forum.
 
cyberwolf001 said:
Let’s say someone HATES the vocation God has given them, there miserable in it. Literally to the point of depression. But out of obedience to Our Lord do this vocation to the best of ones will.

Would this person be in sin?
Click to expand...
How do you think Jonah related, Well… not very comfortable was he, some people leave the priesthood sometimes NOT because Jesus told them to but because of falling into temptation, . we remember Paul how he thought that his only vocation was to kill christians but God knew other, Moses the same, Gideon, David, Saul, and the list goes on. They had their vocations and God showed His greatness even though the likes of Jonah had to be shown that God’s way was the merciful way.

Know what I mean?
Godbless
littleone
 
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