Something my CCD teacher said last Sunday

[CatholicZ09]

Okay so, last Sunday in CCD class my CCD teacher told me something that sounded a little “off” to me. She said that the reason we baptize is that long ago, babies were killed, and they were afraid that if they weren’t baptized, or anyone for that matter wasn’t before they died, they were doomed to hell. However, if you are a baby, you don’t even know what a sin is, and it’s not really possible to commit one when you’re a baby. So, isn’t it wrong to say babies are doomed to hell?

 

[otjm]

It may be that she is a bit confused; the prior teaching was that unbaptized babies go to Limbo, a place that is not Hell but is definitely not Heaven.

It was taught in a manner that most people felt it was a doctrine. It wasn’t; it was called a theological construct; theologians pretty much agreed on the issue, but the Church never officially said that this was what happened.

The Church has now said that we entrust them to God and His mercy. The thinking is that a) we don’t know what happens to them; b) the Church teaches that Baptism is necessary to be part of the Church; c) they die unbaptized through no fault of their own; d)God can offer them some means of a choice that would result in their entering; e) God is Just, but Mercy trumps Justice (see, e.g. the Good Thief during the crucifixion), and the bottom line is we don’t know.

 

[kristanl]

Okay so, last Sunday in CCD class my CCD teacher told me something that sounded a little “off” to me. She said that the reason we baptize is that long ago, babies were killed, and they were afraid that if they weren’t baptized, or anyone for that matter wasn’t before they died, they were doomed to hell. However, if you are a baby, you don’t even know what a sin is, and it’s not really possible to commit one when you’re a baby. So, isn’t it wrong to say babies are doomed to hell?

Also, babies have original sin which is from Adam and Eve sinning. The reason we baptize infants is to wash away the original sin, make them part of the Church, and baptize babies just as the apostle baptized “households” in the bible.

 

[Orchanian]

Consider also the Old Covenant. Boys were brought into the OC via circumcision at 8 days. That practice of bringing infants into the New Covenant is related to the Old. In the New Covenant, boys and girls are brought in, and it’s an unbloody sacrifice. The New Covenant would not be less than the new, so there must be a way to bring infants into the Church - and that’s baptism.

 

[CopyKat]

We’re all born with original sin on our souls, which is what baptism washes away.

 

[Tradycja]

Okay so, last Sunday in CCD class my CCD teacher told me something that sounded a little “off” to me. She said that the reason we baptize is that long ago, babies were killed, and they were afraid that if they weren’t baptized, or anyone for that matter wasn’t before they died, they were doomed to hell. However, if you are a baby, you don’t even know what a sin is, and it’s not really possible to commit one when you’re a baby. So, isn’t it wrong to say babies are doomed to hell?

Well a baby has ORIGINAL SIN, the existence of which is heavily denied in our times. And no they are not doomed to hell, they go to limbo.

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Infallible teachings related to babies not entering heaven:***

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Session 11, Feb. 4, 1442:
“Regarding children, indeed, because of danger of death, which can often take place, when no help can be brought to them by another remedy than through the sacrament of baptism, through which they are snatched from the domination of the Devil and adopted among the sons of God, it advises that holy baptism ought not be deferred for forty or eighty days, or any time according to the observance of certain people.”

Council of Lyons II, 1274
“The souls of those who die in mortal sin or with original sin only, however, immediately descend to hell, yet to be punished with different punishments.” (Denzinger 464)

Council of Florence, 1438-1445:
“the souls of those who depart in actual mortal sin or in original sin only, descend immediately into hell but to undergo punishments of different kinds” (Denzinger 694)

Pope Martin V, Council of Constance, Session 15, July 6, 1415 -
Proposition 6: “Those who claim, that the children of the faithful dying without sacramental baptism will not be saved, are stupid and presumptuous in saying this = Condemned.” Decrees of the Ecumenical Councils, Vol. 1, p. 422

Pope Paul III, The Council of Trent, On Original Sin, Session Va:
“If anyone says that recently born babies should not be baptized even if they have been born to baptized parents; or says that they are indeed baptized for the remission of sins, but incur no trace of the original sin of Adam needing to be cleansed by the laver of rebirth for them to obtain eternal life, with the necessary consequence that in their case there is being understood a form of baptism for the remission of sins which is not true, but false: let him be anathema.” (Denz. 791)

 

[otjm]

Well a baby has ORIGINAL SIN, the existence of which is heavily denied in our times. And no they are not doomed to hell, they go to limbo.

---

Infallible teachings related to babies not entering heaven:***

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Session 11, Feb. 4, 1442:
“Regarding children, indeed, because of danger of death, which can often take place, when no help can be brought to them by another remedy than through the sacrament of baptism, through which they are snatched from the domination of the Devil and adopted among the sons of God, it advises that holy baptism ought not be deferred for forty or eighty days, or any time according to the observance of certain people.”

Council of Lyons II, 1274
“The souls of those who die in mortal sin or with original sin only, however, immediately descend to hell, yet to be punished with different punishments.” (Denzinger 464)

Council of Florence, 1438-1445:
“the souls of those who depart in actual mortal sin or in original sin only, descend immediately into hell but to undergo punishments of different kinds” (Denzinger 694)

Pope Martin V, Council of Constance, Session 15, July 6, 1415 -
Proposition 6: “Those who claim, that the children of the faithful dying without sacramental baptism will not be saved, are stupid and presumptuous in saying this = Condemned.” Decrees of the Ecumenical Councils, Vol. 1, p. 422

Pope Paul III, The Council of Trent, On Original Sin, Session Va:
“If anyone says that recently born babies should not be baptized even if they have been born to baptized parents; or says that they are indeed baptized for the remission of sins, but incur no trace of the original sin of Adam needing to be cleansed by the laver of rebirth for them to obtain eternal life, with the necessary consequence that in their case there is being understood a form of baptism for the remission of sins which is not true, but false: let him be anathema.” (Denz. 791)

If you want to quote a bit of what the Church has had to say about the matter, then you should quote all the Church has had to say about the matter, since even well before Vatican 2 the Church did not hold that unbaptized babies went to hell.

 

[4EverHis]

we baptized babies because of original sin… they don’t have any personal sins but they do have original sin. As for whether they go to Heaven or hell or limbo, the Catechism says that we should just trust them to the mercy of God it’s possible for unbaptized persons to go to Heaven under certain circumstances. Maybe infants who died go to Heaven because of their invinsible ignorance.

 

[JReducation]

Well a baby has ORIGINAL SIN, the existence of which is heavily denied in our times. And no they are not doomed to hell, they go to limbo.

---

Infallible teachings related to babies not entering heaven:***

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Session 11, Feb. 4, 1442:
“Regarding children, indeed, because of danger of death, which can often take place, when no help can be brought to them by another remedy than through the sacrament of baptism, through which they are snatched from the domination of the Devil and adopted among the sons of God, it advises that holy baptism ought not be deferred for forty or eighty days, or any time according to the observance of certain people.”

Council of Lyons II, 1274
“The souls of those who die in mortal sin or with original sin only, however, immediately descend to hell, yet to be punished with different punishments.” (Denzinger 464)

Council of Florence, 1438-1445:
“the souls of those who depart in actual mortal sin or in original sin only, descend immediately into hell but to undergo punishments of different kinds” (Denzinger 694)

Pope Martin V, Council of Constance, Session 15, July 6, 1415 -
Proposition 6: “Those who claim, that the children of the faithful dying without sacramental baptism will not be saved, are stupid and presumptuous in saying this = Condemned.” Decrees of the Ecumenical Councils, Vol. 1, p. 422

Pope Paul III, The Council of Trent, On Original Sin, Session Va:
“If anyone says that recently born babies should not be baptized even if they have been born to baptized parents; or says that they are indeed baptized for the remission of sins, but incur no trace of the original sin of Adam needing to be cleansed by the laver of rebirth for them to obtain eternal life, with the necessary consequence that in their case there is being understood a form of baptism for the remission of sins which is not true, but false: let him be anathema.” (Denz. 791)

None of these statements have ever been declared infallible teachings, as far as unbaptized babies are concerned. At least they were never recognized as infallible by Pope John Paul II when he authorized the writing of the CCC, which, as he said in the preface to the CCC, is an expanded version of the Catechism of Trent and other catechisms that were written before and after.

The official teaching of the Church is that we do not know what happens to an unbaptized baby, but we commend them to God’s mercy. The teaching todays is clarified by the Church’s teaching that every person is gifted with the desire to find God and that we must give the benefit of the doubt to those who die without baptism, such as children who are aborted. Only God, who lives outside of space and time, really knows that the person would have chosen had he/she grown to maturity. The latter is a dogma, the fact that God knows all things and God knows what the person would have chosen. Based on this, we pray that these souls would have opted for Christ in their lives and would be saved. Otherwise, the Church would have to teach that the souls of the millions of aborted children are damned ot hell or some parallel place and she does not teach this. This is what the Church subscribes to and how she explains the previoius teachings on Limbo, etc. These teachings do not contradict the past, but add a greater understanding of God’s mercy and expand on what was left unsaid by previouis generations of popes and theologians. Even this statement does not carry the weight of infallibility. The Church accepts that we simply do not know the answer.

I would just add my 2 cents and say that it would be presumptuous for us to believe that we know exactly how God thinks and how God handles that which is unexpected to us, but which he in his eternal time can see very clearly.

Unbaptized infants: “As regards children who have died
without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the
mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them.
-12-
Indeed, the great mercy of God, who desires that men
should be saved [1 Timothy 2:4], and Jesus’ tenderness
toward children which caused him to say: ‘Let the
children come to me, do not hinder them’63 [Mark
10:14], allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation
for children who have died without Baptism” (CCC
1261).
F) Limbo: Many Catholic theologians in the past have
reasoned that children who die unbaptized go to limbo,
a place of eternal peace but without the vision of God,
since these infants have committed no actual sins and
therefore have not chosen or deserved Hell, but they are
born with Original Sin and therefore cannot enter
Heaven. But most theologians now believe God will
somehow get his innocent little ones into Heaven. We
cannot limit God’s love or his cleverness in arranging for
his loving will to be done. God is not limited to any one
means.

It seems that Pope Martin V and John Paul II had a more similar point of view.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF