Something struck me about OSAS, or "all sin is the same sin"

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Last ngith, I was watching–channel-flipping, really–a program that focused on penitentiaries and their prisoners.

One guy who was interviewed was on death row, for being a serial killer. He got the death penalty for bludgeoning to death a wife and mother of five. So he’s sitting there, quite matter of fact about being a sinner and finding Jesus in prison.

But what really got to me was when he started talking about how Jesus forgave him, and that he “cleaned his side of the street, if others don’t like it or don’t forgive me, then they’re the ones sinning”. He was absolutely positive that he was going to Heaven, and that if you steal a cracker, it makes you no better than a serial killer. He basically made it sound like he should be released from prison because he was so “changed” now.

For some reason, this is really troubling me. Isn’t that what OSAS believes–that once you’re “saved”, you don’t need to do anything else? And that all sin is the same sin, whether you bludgeoned a mother to death or stole a cracker?
 
twosweetgirls said:
Last ngith, I was watching–channel-flipping, really–a program that focused on penitentiaries and their prisoners.

One guy who was interviewed was on death row, for being a serial killer. He got the death penalty for bludgeoning to death a wife and mother of five. So he’s sitting there, quite matter of fact about being a sinner and finding Jesus in prison.

But what really got to me was when he started talking about how Jesus forgave him, and that he “cleaned his side of the street, if others don’t like it or don’t forgive me, then they’re the ones sinning”. He was absolutely positive that he was going to Heaven, and that if you steal a cracker, it makes you no better than a serial killer. He basically made it sound like he should be released from prison because he was so “changed” now.

For some reason, this is really troubling me. Isn’t that what OSAS believes–that once you’re “saved”, you don’t need to do anything else? And that all sin is the same sin, whether you bludgeoned a mother to death or stole a cracker?
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For the regenerate, one sin is the same sin only in that unrepented or repeated sin can drive out the Holy Spirit, and therefore faith, making it mortal sin. I think there is much less chance of driving out the HS by stealing a cracker than by murdering one or more people.
For everyone who is unregenerate, every sin is a mortal sin.
As for the man on death row, if he is truly repentent, confesses his sin, his sin is forgiven. But, as Jesus said to the adulterous woman, “go and sin no more”. That kind of contradicts OSAS.

Jon

PS Forgiveness does not necessarily equal temporal pardon.
Reagan said “trust, but verify.” I can trust him that he is changed, but I can’t verify it, so he needs to stay where he is.
 
I think I see what you’re saying Jon; can you further explain “regenerate” and “unregenerate”, please?
 
twosweetgirls said:
I think I see what you’re saying Jon; can you further explain “regenerate” and “unregenerate”, please?
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You and I for example: baptized, justified by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, and acting on that faith by serving God and man,
are regenerate.

Jon
 
What’s frightening about the belief “once saved, always saved” is that it so contradicts reason and philosophy that your consicence is bound to become clouded in trying to rationalize OSAS.

In Saint Paul’s days, there was a church he was writing to that believed it was already in the world to come. Because the church believed this, the parishioners believed they didn’t have to obey any laws - they could do whatever they wanted. But they still went to Mass, out of love for Jesus. However, this would be quite a loophole in their thinking: Since love is a law - as the Lord showed when He commanded, “Love one another” - the church was basically contradicting its own beliefs about laws being no longer necessary, and as a result, some Christians were going bananas over law and lawlesness. So Saint Paul had to correct them about the end of the world, saying first an apostasy, than the antichrist, must come before Jesus returns in glory.
 
twosweetgirls said:
Last ngith, I was watching–channel-flipping, really–a program that focused on penitentiaries and their prisoners.

One guy who was interviewed was on death row, for being a serial killer. He got the death penalty for bludgeoning to death a wife and mother of five. So he’s sitting there, quite matter of fact about being a sinner and finding Jesus in prison.

But what really got to me was when he started talking about how Jesus forgave him, and that he “cleaned his side of the street, if others don’t like it or don’t forgive me, then they’re the ones sinning”. He was absolutely positive that he was going to Heaven, and that if you steal a cracker, it makes you no better than a serial killer. He basically made it sound like he should be released from prison because he was so “changed” now.

For some reason, this is really troubling me. Isn’t that what OSAS believes–that once you’re “saved”, you don’t need to do anything else? And that all sin is the same sin, whether you bludgeoned a mother to death or stole a cracker?
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The OSAS camp explains problems like this away by saying that someone who steals a cracker is obviously a saved Christian, and someone who becomes a serial killer was obviously never really saved (he only thought he was saved). And this also points up the fact that they do know and understand the difference between venial and mortal sins, though they would never admit that. But that’s for another thread.

So, though they admit that no one really knows if they’re saved, they believe that they know they are saved.

It makes no sense whatsoever, but they’ve stated that OSAS, so how can they make sense of a “saved” person who becomes a serial killer? Ahah! It must be that he was never really saved. 🙂

So, when a killer, even if he claimed to be saved earlier, says that he is “saved”, they believe that he is born again and is assured of his salvation.

When he’s released and kills again, they believe that he wasn’t really born again and wasn’t saved.

Sounds a lot llike Confession, doesn’t it? You sin. You seek God’s forgiveness. You sin again. You seek God’s forgiveness again. And until the end, you can’t be sure that you are “saved”.

Of course the individual, in all his arrogance, will claim that that’s true for others, but he knows that he is so good, and will remain so good, that of course he is sure that he’s going to Heaven.

Then he will say that it has nothing to do with him, but with God. Of course you’ll bring up the killer, but to the OSAS, that’s “a different story”.

It’s all about arrogance and presumption, I think.

OSAS makes no sense. But it’s their story, and they’re stikcing to it.

You could turn blue pointing out the obvious to a OSAS person. They will never see that it makes no sense.
 
Okay, it’s making more sense. Makes me even more glad I jumped feet first into the Tiber. 🙂

So then, how would an OSAS believer explain the stealing of the cracker? That, “oh, they stole a cracker, they must’ve needed it, it’s no big deal”? Or, since they believe that all sin is the same, would they say, “oh, they stole a cracker, they weren’t saved to begin with”?

And about the bludgeoning then, would an OSAS believer say, “well, he can just go to God and ask for forgiveness again”? And how do they explain the belief of “oh, he wasn’t saved to begin with”, if they also believe that you can NEVER lose your salvation once you accept it? As in, this guy had a “born-again” experience after the fourth murder, then was released and bludgeoned the mother to death. . . how can an OSAS believer say “he was never saved to begin with” if, at the time of his “acceptance of Christ as personal Savior”, he can NEVER lose his salvation?
 
twosweetgirls said:
Okay, it’s making more sense. Makes me even more glad I jumped feet first into the Tiber. 🙂

So then, how would an OSAS believer explain the stealing of the cracker? That, “oh, they stole a cracker, they must’ve needed it, it’s no big deal”? Or, since they believe that all sin is the same, would they say, “oh, they stole a cracker, they weren’t saved to begin with”?

And about the bludgeoning then, would an OSAS believer say, “well, he can just go to God and ask for forgiveness again”? And how do they explain the belief of “oh, he wasn’t saved to begin with”, if they also believe that you can NEVER lose your salvation once you accept it? As in, this guy had a “born-again” experience after the fourth murder, then was released and bludgeoned the mother to death. . . how can an OSAS believer say “he was never saved to begin with” if, at the time of his “acceptance of Christ as personal Savior”, he can NEVER lose his salvation?
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Again, their answers make no sense.

They say that we are all sinners, but that once you are saved you won’t commit sins again. You will point out that sinners commit sins and that they do, in fact, sin. They say that Jesus died on the cross and they accepted Him as their Lord and Savior, so they are saved, once and for all. Jesus paid the price for our sins, so there’s nothing to worry about. They really do understand the difference between venial and mortal sin. They don’t believe that commiting venial sins after accepting Jesus is a problem. These little sins are nothing to worry about for somone who is already saved. No matter what they do, the punishment for sin has been paid by Jesus, so they don’t worry about it as far as salvation goes. They do admit to worrying about being a good person, though, and they don’t advocate stealing or commiting any other kind of sin.

You will ask them about the man who was saved and then went on to kill again. They will say that he wasn’t really saved, that he only thought he was saved.

You will ask, then, how anyone can really know that they are saved. They will say that the Bible tells them that they are saved when they accept Jesus. You again mention the man who did that and then went on to kill. They say that anyone who would kill had obviously not really been saved. So you ask, then, how anyone can really know that they are saved, if someone who thought he was saved wasn’t really saved. They will say that a saved person wouldn’t commit a sin like that, so he was mistaken. You ask how they know that they aren’t mistaken about their own salvation, and they will tell you that they know they would never commit a sin like that. You ask them if they knew that before they were “saved”, and they will admit that, yes, they did know that they woudln’t intentionally kill someone before they were saved. You ask, then, how do they know they are saved, and they say that the Bible tells them so. But didn’t the Bible also tell the serial killer that, and didn’t he accept Jesus. He only thought he did. Well, maybe you only think you did. No, I know I woudln’t ever kill someone.

And on and on it goes.

They know that they are saved, because they are sure of their own goodness. They know that the serial killer wasn’t saved, because his actions proved that he wasn’t really saved, though he thought he was.

The difference, we can gather, is that those who believe they are saved believe that they will never commit a mortal sin.

You see, though they say that behavior (works) has nothing to do with salvation, they use it (works/behavior) as proof of someone being mistaken about their salvation. And they use their own behavior (works) as proof that their belief that they are OSAS is correct.

It boils down to their saying, “I’m right about my salvation though it has been proven that others may be very wrong about their own.”

It makes no sense.
 
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