Something that has been bothering me for a while now

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dzheremi

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Throughout my year or so here I have been disabused of a great many preconceived notions regarding religion, both Catholicism and other. But for the first time, starting about a month ago, I’ve actually come to disbelieve in something I previously believed in rather self-evident and hence elemental manner. That is to say, it seemed too obvious to need to be questioned. Given that I’d never even questioned it previously, I’m not quite sure where to go from here, or what it means overall for my faith.

I myself have quoted paragraph 841 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church on numerous occasions, and defended the position expressed therein quite strongly. It states:
“The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”
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I no longer believe this. I know, I know, so what, plenty of Catholics on here don’t accept this and not every sentence in the CCC is dogma, so why is this a thread… :confused:

Well, a few things bother me about the implications of this realization:
  1. The CC has clearly taught error here in what can be reasonably deemed to be an official capacity. The implications of this vis-a-vis the veracity of other Catholic doctrines should be obvious.
  2. While it does seem somewhat trivial in a way, the inclusion of such passages says a lot about the philosophy of some within the Church, and a lot of that makes me fairly uncomfortable (to put it diplomatically);
  3. in other ways, however, it is NOT at all trivial. There is no triviality at all in what we believe about God, because the proper worship of God is supposed to be at the heart of everything that we do as Christians and everything that we believe as a Church. For example, we can say that God truly is as He is in the Christian Trinity and we are to worship Him as He has commanded us to in Christianity, or we can be mealy-mouthed in our approach to this dimension of our faith and say that anyone who gets a part of it right (whether that part is in number, or in form, or however else you can think of it) is somehow also to be included on an equal footing with Christians when it comes to the question of who is worshipping what God.
I have always maintained that the Muslims, for their part, get it right in terms of number ONLY (and only superficially so at that), as it is a basic truism of Christianity that there is, in fact, only one God. So, I thought to myself, as there’s only one God to begin with, it stands to reason that anyone who worships God must be worshipping that same God, however uncompletely or incorrectly. I can no longer hold this overly simplistic view, especially in light of the position I have expressed in threads like this one. I believe that the Trinity, and the CHRISTIAN Trinity at that, is the one true God. Not Islam’s Allah or Hinduism’s Vishnu or anything or anyone else. So I cannot, for the sake my own soul, say that these other gods, which are not the eternal and uncreated unity that is the Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Spirit, are somehow also my God.

I’m not so much concerned that this will have any practical effect on my relationship with Muslims or any other non-Christian, but unfortunately it and other incidents like it have already had a great effect on my relationship to my own Church. To be blunt: the cognitive dissonance created in the process of trying to make all this work is killing my faith in the Catholic Church.

Were it just about Muslims and whether not they’ll be saved, I probably wouldn’t have taken the time to write any of this. I think it is really symptomatic of some deeper problems. I just don’t really know how to deal with them.

Am the only one who feels this way? Not necessarily about this issue, but…just the Church in general? I don’t want to be a dissident or a heretic. I want to be a good Catholic. I just don’t know what to do.
 
How about this…suppose Islam , when it first started, had no interaction with Christianity but only with Judaism. It broke off from Judaism and formed its own rituals and traditions but maintained two things. first, that there is only one God worthy of worship. Second, He is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who sent the Torah to Moses, hence the same God Jews worship. Do they in this case worship the same God or not ?

Egyptians at one point in time worshiped only one God. They were monotheistic. But they , unlike Muslims, did not consider themselves worshiping the God the Jews worship. therefore, they worshiped a different god

question, were there any polytheist Christians in the early centuries of Christianity ?
 
At first I had problems with this, but not anymore. I believe that Jews worship the same God we do – both the Jews of the old testament and of today. I think that it would be hard to argue otherwise. They just have the wrong notions about Who and What God is. This shows that just because you have the wrong understanding of God, doesn’t mean that you have the wrong God. Which is good, because none of us come anywhere close to understanding God fully.
I think that maybe we don’t give God enough credit. He works in the world and in the minds of His creation in unexpected ways – even in those who lack His revelation and the fullness of truth. Paul in Acts says to the Athenians that the same “Unknown God” that they worshiped was the one, true, God. How neat is that? How much more could we say that Muslims, who explicitly state that they worship the God of Abraham, worship the true God?

This is somewhat related. Cardinal Newman writes the following in his Essay on the Development of Doctrine, in his chapter on assimilative power:

"“The phenomenon, admitted on all hands, is this:—That great portion of what is generally received as Christian truth is, in its rudiments or in its separate parts, to be found in heathen philosophies and religions. For instance, the doctrine of a Trinity is found both in the East and in the West; so is the ceremony of washing; so is the rite of sacrifice. The doctrine of the Divine Word is Platonic; the doctrine of the Incarnation is Indian; of a divine kingdom is Judaic; of Angels and demons is Magian; the connexion of sin with the body is Gnostic; celibacy is known to Bonze and Talapoin; a sacerdotal order is Egyptian; the idea of a new birth is Chinese and Eleusinian; belief in sacramental virtue is Pythagorean; and honours to the dead are a polytheism. Such is the general nature of the fact before us; Mr. Milman argues from it,—‘These things are in heathenism, therefore they are not Christian:’ we, on the contrary, prefer to say, ‘these things are in Christianity, therefore they are not heathen.’ That is, we prefer to say, and we think that Scripture bears us out in saying, that from the beginning the Moral Governor of the world has scattered the seeds of truth far and wide over its extent; that these have variously taken root, and grown as in the wilderness, wild plants indeed but living; and hence that, as the inferior animals have tokens of an immaterial {381} principle in them, yet have not souls, so the philosophies and religions of men have their life in certain true ideas, though they are not directly divine.”
dzheremi said:
Am the only one who feels this way? Not necessarily about this issue, but…just the Church in general? I don’t want to be a dissident or a heretic. I want to be a good Catholic. I just don’t know what to do.
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I used to feel that way all the time. I still do occasionally. I try to give the Church the benefit of the doubt as I struggle with a particular teaching. It’s easier to do now because the Church has proven herself right to me again and again. But I know the sinking feeling of doubt – the “oh man, what if I’m allowing myself to be lead into serious error”. Sometimes I doubt that I have the ability to tell what is really true and really not. It can be hard. What to do? Pray, learn, and press on!
 
If we look at Muslims in general as a deceived people whom are taught wrong teachings from the beginning, then I think CCC 841 is fair, because what is their fault?, what’s hamba fault?, what’s bosnian_muslim fault?, and what’s my muslim sister fault?, why they shouldn’t be in the grace of God if they think that they are really worshipping him, they are implementing what Muhammed and his caliphs told them to do, now should they be blamed for not having opened their minds and searched for the truth, I think yes, because God had given us a brain to utilize.

However, one important question would be whether Muhammed was deceived also or was he a deceiver?, in other words if Satan deceived Muhammed by claiming that he was Gabriel, then I think CCC 841 should be also implemented on Muhammed (of course after the purgatory), BUT if he created all of that to gain power, money, and sex, then I think his only Bible prophecy would be (Revelation 19:20-21):
“But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. The rest of them were killed with the sword that came out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.”
 
dzheremi said:
Throughout my year or so here I have been disabused of a great many preconceived notions regarding religion, both Catholicism and other. But for the first time, starting about a month ago, I’ve actually come to disbelieve in something I previously believed in rather self-evident and hence elemental manner. That is to say, it seemed too obvious to need to be questioned. Given that I’d never even questioned it previously, I’m not quite sure where to go from here, or what it means overall for my faith.

I myself have quoted paragraph 841 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church on numerous occasions, and defended the position expressed therein quite strongly. It states:

I no longer believe this. I know, I know, so what, plenty of Catholics on here don’t accept this and not every sentence in the CCC is dogma, so why is this a thread… :confused:

Well, a few things bother me about the implications of this realization:
  1. The CC has clearly taught error here in what can be reasonably deemed to be an official capacity. The implications of this vis-a-vis the veracity of other Catholic doctrines should be obvious.
  2. While it does seem somewhat trivial in a way, the inclusion of such passages says a lot about the philosophy of some within the Church, and a lot of that makes me fairly uncomfortable (to put it diplomatically);
  3. in other ways, however, it is NOT at all trivial. There is no triviality at all in what we believe about God, because the proper worship of God is supposed to be at the heart of everything that we do as Christians and everything that we believe as a Church. For example, we can say that God truly is as He is in the Christian Trinity and we are to worship Him as He has commanded us to in Christianity, or we can be mealy-mouthed in our approach to this dimension of our faith and say that anyone who gets a part of it right (whether that part is in number, or in form, or however else you can think of it) is somehow also to be included on an equal footing with Christians when it comes to the question of who is worshipping what God.
I have always maintained that the Muslims, for their part, get it right in terms of number ONLY (and only superficially so at that), as it is a basic truism of Christianity that there is, in fact, only one God. So, I thought to myself, as there’s only one God to begin with, it stands to reason that anyone who worships God must be worshipping that same God, however uncompletely or incorrectly. I can no longer hold this overly simplistic view, especially in light of the position I have expressed in threads like this one. I believe that the Trinity, and the CHRISTIAN Trinity at that, is the one true God. Not Islam’s Allah or Hinduism’s Vishnu or anything or anyone else. So I cannot, for the sake my own soul, say that these other gods, which are not the eternal and uncreated unity that is the Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Spirit, are somehow also my God.

I’m not so much concerned that this will have any practical effect on my relationship with Muslims or any other non-Christian, but unfortunately it and other incidents like it have already had a great effect on my relationship to my own Church. To be blunt: the cognitive dissonance created in the process of trying to make all this work is killing my faith in the Catholic Church.

Were it just about Muslims and whether not they’ll be saved, I probably wouldn’t have taken the time to write any of this. I think it is really symptomatic of some deeper problems. I just don’t really know how to deal with them.

Am the only one who feels this way? Not necessarily about this issue, but…just the Church in general? I don’t want to be a dissident or a heretic. I want to be a good Catholic. I just don’t know what to do.
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And what of the Jews’ one God? Why leave them on the list of those who worship the same God, when they don’t accept Jesus’ divinity?

I think your distaste for the particulars of Islam in no way determines whether the faith worships the God of Abraham. It does, so Muslims worship the same God.

Don’t confuse the Muslims with the Islamists.
 
Read the Dogmatic Constitution of the Church, it will council you.
 
What does Christ say about salvation? His answer was simple. Keep the Commandments! If a person does that, according to Christ he is saved. Do Muslims keep these? Do the Jews? Does anybody? I have always believed that those who follow Christ’s example are following Him more closely than many who call themselves “Christian”. I personally try to live my religious life within the context of the Roman Rite. This gives me the guidlines that I need. There are many things that are hard to explain when it comes to faith. I can only try my best. That’s all I believe anyone can do.
 
dzheremi said:
I have always maintained that the Muslims, for their part, get it right in terms of number ONLY (and only superficially so at that), as it is a basic truism of Christianity that there is, in fact, only one God. So, I thought to myself, as there’s only one God to begin with, it stands to reason that anyone who worships God must be worshipping that same God, however uncompletely or incorrectly. I can no longer hold this overly simplistic view, especially in light of the position I have expressed in threads like this one. I believe that the Trinity, and the CHRISTIAN Trinity at that, is the one true God.
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Then you are a Marcionite heretic.

If anyone who does not worship the Christian Trinity does not worship the true God, then Jews do not worship the true God. And since Jews clearly did not start worshiping a different God at any point between the writing of the OT and the present time, the God of the Old Testament cannot be the true God.

It’s bad enough when people believe this nonsense about the Muslims not worshiping the true God because they have always been taught to. But you say that you have actually come to believe it? For heaven’s sake, why? There is simply no rational way you can say either that Jews today do not worship the God of the OT or that Jews and Muslims worship a different God. You are embracing something that is not only vicious in its effects but lacks any basis in reason whatsoever.

It is your claim that all non-worshipers of the Trinity worship a false God that is simplistic.

Your claim that the Christian Trinity is the true God is, of course, true.

Edwin
 
I do not think and never have, that Muslims worship the same God we do. Our Trinitarian God did not reveal the Quran, period. Muslims worship the “deity” who did, whether it be Muhammad or some demon who appeared to him as an “angel of light”. Surely God, who is Love, could not be the author of such a hate filled book as the Quran which is the inspiration for all the violence committed by Muslims since the beginning of Islam and which continues to this day. As to what the Catechism says, I think too many people see more in it than what it says. It just states that Muslims profess to worship the God of Abraham but that does not mean that they actually do.

Vickie
 
dzheremi, I think that CCC 841 is referring to the idea of the “anonymous Christian.” Are you familiar with it?

Contarini, I don’t think you can call someone a heretic until they persist in clinging to an idea after efforts have been made to correct them. You oughtn’t use the word so casually.
 
Contarini said:
Then you are a Marcionite heretic.

If anyone who does not worship the Christian Trinity does not worship the true God, then Jews do not worship the true God. And since Jews clearly did not start worshiping a different God at any point between the writing of the OT and the present time, the God of the Old Testament cannot be the true God.

It’s bad enough when people believe this nonsense about the Muslims not worshiping the true God because they have always been taught to. But you say that you have actually come to believe it? For heaven’s sake, why? There is simply no rational way you can say either that Jews today do not worship the God of the OT or that Jews and Muslims worship a different God. You are embracing something that is not only vicious in its effects but lacks any basis in reason whatsoever.

It is your claim that all non-worshipers of the Trinity worship a false God that is simplistic.

Your claim that the Christian Trinity is the true God is, of course, true.

Edwin
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Dzheremi never even mentioned the Jews in his post, so why did you bring them up? You’re the one making the statement that because Jews don’t worship our Trinitarian God, then according to the OP they don’t worship the same God. All you’re doing is obfuscating the issue.

Is the God of Abraham the author of the Quran???

Vickie
 
Booklover said:
Dzheremi never even mentioned the Jews in his post, so why did you bring them up? You’re the one making the statement that because Jews don’t worship our Trinitarian God, then according to the OP they don’t worship the same God. All you’re doing is obfuscating the issue.

Is the God of Abraham the author of the Quran???

Vickie
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I’m answering because I also brought up the Jews.

This is from the OP.

" I believe that the Trinity, and the CHRISTIAN Trinity at that, is the one true God. Not Islam’s Allah or Hinduism’s Vishnu or anything or anyone else. So I cannot, for the sake my own soul, say that these other gods, which are not the eternal and uncreated unity that is the Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Spirit, are somehow also my God. ’

According to the OP, anyone who believes in a god that is not the Christian Trinity, which includes a divine Jesus, the Son, doesn’t believe in the same God that Catholics worship. This would include the Jews, since the Jews don’t believe that Jesus is the Son. They don’t believe in the Trinity. No one is putting words in the OP’s mouth. We’re pointing out that she didn’t include the Jews in her list of people who don’t worship the same god, when it’s clear by her definition (above) they don’t. I doubt that the OP thinks that the Jews worship a different God. I think that he/she doesn’t like the particulars of Islam and is trying to discredit it by saying that they aren’t worshipping the same God.

They worship the God of Abraham and so worship the same god as Jews and Christians. The rest of their religion is quite wrong, according to me ;).
 
Booklover said:
I do not think and never have, that Muslims worship the same God we do. Our Trinitarian God did not reveal the Quran, period. Muslims worship the “deity” who did, whether it be Muhammad or some demon who appeared to him as an “angel of light”. Surely God, who is Love, could not be the author of such a hate filled book as the Quran which is the inspiration for all the violence committed by Muslims since the beginning of Islam and which continues to this day. As to what the Catechism says, I think too many people see more in it than what it says. It just states that Muslims profess to worship the God of Abraham but that does not mean that they actually do.

Vickie
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It also says, “together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

Does this mean that they worship the same God? It says “one, merciful God”. What is the definition of adore here?

Edit -
I found it.

ADORATION

The act of religion by which God is recognized as alone worthy of supreme honor because he is infinitely perfect, has supreme dominion over humans, and the right to human total dependence on the Creator. It is at once an act of mind and will, expressing itself in appropriate prayers, postures of praise, and acts of reverence and sacrifice. (Etym. Latin ad- to + orare, to pray; or os, oris, mouth, from the pagan custom of expressing preference for a god by wafting a kiss to the statue: adoratio, worship, veneration.)
 
Have you considered that your hate of Islam–let’s call it what it is, though I’m not sure hate of Islam is a bad thing–is even now turning you away from the Church, and causing you to question the infallibility of her teachings? I speak wholly in good faith. There are many who have left the Church because they hated homosexuality so much that they thought the Church was too lenient on it. This seems analogous to your situation.

This isn’t about whether Islam is bad or not, its about whether the Church is truly of Christ or not. Surely all of us, if we had to create a religion on our own, would not come up with exactly what the Church espouses. But I would very often be wrong, and I recognize that. Whenever there is a conflict between my thoughts or beliefs and what the Church teaches, I follow the Church, as all Catholics should. And when we have deep-seated beliefs that conflict with the Church’s infallible teachings, we must be very suspicious of those beliefs–they are the devil seeping into our consciousness, trying to drive a wedge between us and Christ. I would sooner admit that I am wrong about things I feel very strongly about than loose the Church.
 
Hi dzheremi,
dzheremi said:
Throughout my year or so here I have been disabused of a great many preconceived notions regarding religion, both Catholicism and other. But for the first time, starting about a month ago, I’ve actually come to disbelieve in something I previously believed in rather self-evident and hence elemental manner. That is to say, it seemed too obvious to need to be questioned. Given that I’d never even questioned it previously, I’m not quite sure where to go from here, or what it means overall for my faith.

I myself have quoted paragraph 841 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church on numerous occasions, and defended the position expressed therein quite strongly. It states:
”The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”
Click to expand...
I’m uncertain as to the step you’ve taken. What exactly is it that you now believe?
dzheremi said:
Well, a few things bother me about the implications of this realization:
  1. The CC has clearly taught error here in what can be reasonably deemed to be an official capacity. The implications of this vis-a-vis the veracity of other Catholic doctrines should be obvious.
Click to expand...
I don’t understand the way in which you are thinking. If a Catholic concludes that the Catholic Church is in error doesn’t it follow that a non–Catholic yardstick has been used in order for that conclusion to be reached?
dzheremi said:
  1. While it does seem somewhat trivial in a way, the inclusion of such passages says a lot about the philosophy of some within the Church, and a lot of that makes me fairly uncomfortable (to put it diplomatically);
  2. in other ways, however, it is NOT at all trivial. There is no triviality at all in what we believe about God, because the proper worship of God is supposed to be at the heart of everything that we do as Christians and everything that we believe as a Church. For example, we can say that God truly is as He is in the Christian Trinity and we are to worship Him as He has commanded us to in Christianity, or we can be mealy-mouthed in our approach to this dimension of our faith and say that anyone who gets a part of it right (whether that part is in number, or in form, or however else you can think of it) is somehow also to be included on an equal footing with Christians when it comes to the question of who is worshipping what God.
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I agree that this issue is far from trivial.
dzheremi said:
I have always maintained that the Muslims, for their part, get it right in terms of number ONLY (and only superficially so at that), as it is a basic truism of Christianity that there is, in fact, only one God. So, I thought to myself, as there’s only one God to begin with, it stands to reason that anyone who worships God must be worshipping that same God, however uncompletely or incorrectly. I can no longer hold this overly simplistic view, especially in light of the position I have expressed in threads like this one. I believe that the Trinity, and the CHRISTIAN Trinity at that, is the one true God. Not Islam’s Allah or Hinduism’s Vishnu or anything or anyone else. So I cannot, for the sake my own soul, say that these other gods, which are not the eternal and uncreated unity that is the Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Spirit, are somehow also my God.

I’m not so much concerned that this will have any practical effect on my relationship with Muslims or any other non-Christian, but unfortunately it and other incidents like it have already had a great effect on my relationship to my own Church. To be blunt: the cognitive dissonance created in the process of trying to make all this work is killing my faith in the Catholic Church.

Were it just about Muslims and whether not they’ll be saved, I probably wouldn’t have taken the time to write any of this. I think it is really symptomatic of some deeper problems. I just don’t really know how to deal with them.
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I hope for the salvation of all and I disassociate myself from religionists who declare with certainty that certain individuals or groups are hell–bound or are already in hell. Do your current presuppositions preclude you from aligning yourself with this stance?
dzheremi said:
Am the only one who feels this way? Not necessarily about this issue, but…just the Church in general? I don’t want to be a dissident or a heretic. I want to be a good Catholic. I just don’t know what to do.
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As I understand it, the only way to be a good Catholic is to be obedient to the Catholic Church. If a Catholic concludes in good conscience that the Catholic Church does not contain the fullness of truth then I don’t see how he or she can do anything other than to head out of the Catholic Church. But surely anybody who wishes to be a good Catholic must stay inside the Catholic Church and wholeheartedly accept all its teachings and interpretations? I don’t see how it could it be otherwise.

It seems as though you’re in a tough spot. I’ll continue to keep you in my prayers.

Peace,
Mick
👍
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Why do some assume that if someone disagrees on whether Muslims worship the same God or not, that person is not a good Catholic? I get so tired of hearing that.
We are not even required to believe in approved apparitions, so why should we have to believe that Muslims worship the same God?

Who is the author of the Quran? Is it the God of Abraham? If it is, then we should all give up believing in Jesus as the Son of God, his crucifixion and death, his raising from the dead and become Muslims! Whoever authored the Quran is the deity whom Muslims worship. It’s this “deity” who has contradicted everything that came before, who has seen to it that all the love, mercy and forgiveness that Jesus brought us has been overturned by the violence and extreme cruelty preached in his “last” revelation. How can this be the same God we’ve come to know? Why did God warn us not to worship “false gods”?

Vickie
 
kalt said:
I’m answering because I also brought up the Jews.

This is from the OP.

" I believe that the Trinity, and the CHRISTIAN Trinity at that, is the one true God. Not Islam’s Allah or Hinduism’s Vishnu or anything or anyone else. So I cannot, for the sake my own soul, say that these other gods, which are not the eternal and uncreated unity that is the Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Spirit, are somehow also my God. ’

According to the OP, anyone who believes in a god that is not the Christian Trinity, which includes a divine Jesus, the Son, doesn’t believe in the same God that Catholics worship. This would include the Jews, since the Jews don’t believe that Jesus is the Son. They don’t believe in the Trinity. No one is putting words in the OP’s mouth. We’re pointing out that she didn’t include the Jews in her list of people who don’t worship the same god, when it’s clear by her definition (above) they don’t. I doubt that the OP thinks that the Jews worship a different God. I think that he/she doesn’t like the particulars of Islam and is trying to discredit it by saying that they aren’t worshipping the same God.

They worship the God of Abraham and so worship the same god as Jews and Christians. The rest of their religion is quite wrong, according to me ;).
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In defense of Dzheremi, I don’t think for one minute that he’s stating what he did to discredit Islam! Muslims have latched on to the God of Abraham to give legitimacy to Islam! Islam has nothing to do with previous revelations.

Vickie
 
From DeusVult09 link:

(1) They “profess to hold the faith of Abraham.”

The operative word here is “profess”—they claim to hold the faith of Abraham.

In reality, their faith is an imperfect version of the faith that comes from Abraham, but they are trying to follow in the footsteps of Abraham, and the Council gives them credit for that.

(2) “Together with us they adore the one, merciful God.”

For many, this statement is perplexing.

However, as we saw in last issue’s “Brass Tacks” column, God is aware of and acknowledges all that is good and true in the worship offered to him, however imperfect an understanding of him a worshiper may have.

While Muslims, like Jews, do not accept the Trinity, they do acknowledge that God is the only true God and that he is merciful.

This means that they honor things that are true about God but have a limited understanding of him.

Christians have a fuller understanding of God because he has revealed more to us about himself: specifically, that he is a Trinity.

This doctrine cannot be deduced by human reason; it can only be known by revelation.

Failure to accept this revelation of the Christian age does not stop Muslims from worshiping God any more than it stops Jews.

It means only that they know less about God and that they have erroneous corollary ideas (for instance, that Jesus is not the Son of God).
 
jakasaki said:
From DeusVult09 link:

(1) They “profess to hold the faith of Abraham.”

The operative word here is “profess”—they claim to hold the faith of Abraham.

In reality, their faith is an imperfect version of the faith that comes from Abraham, but they are trying to follow in the footsteps of Abraham, and the Council gives them credit for that.

(2) “Together with us they adore the one, merciful God.”

For many, this statement is perplexing.

However, as we saw in last issue’s “Brass Tacks” column, God is aware of and acknowledges all that is good and true in the worship offered to him, however imperfect an understanding of him a worshiper may have.

While Muslims, like Jews, do not accept the Trinity, they do acknowledge that God is the only true God and that he is merciful.

This means that they honor things that are true about God but have a limited understanding of him.

Christians have a fuller understanding of God because he has revealed more to us about himself: specifically, that he is a Trinity.

This doctrine cannot be deduced by human reason; it can only be known by revelation.

Failure to accept this revelation of the Christian age does not stop Muslims from worshiping God any more than it stops Jews.

It means only that they know less about God and that they have erroneous corollary ideas (for instance, that Jesus is not the Son of God).
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Yes, I read all that. The Church, as usual, is being charitable, more charitable than Islam deserves. On Islamic sites they can’t even give any info about Islam without somehow maligning other faiths or the west, whatever.

Vickie
 
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