Sometimes it is right to judge

[AlanFromWichita]

We are told by Jesus not to judge at all.

“Stop judging, that you may not be judged.”

Rom 14:10:

Why then do you judge your brother? Or you, why do you look down on your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God;

Mark 7:8:

“You disregard God’s commandment but cling to human tradition.”

 

[Julianna]

An excellent answer.

I third that!

I am an ENFJ…does that mean I judge too? Actually…I’m more the F type.

If one judges another too much…it makes me wonder…when I will be judged with the same scrutiny.

tomato…tomato…potato…potato…

 

[floresco]

Before you judge CITH receivers, try walking in their shoes. For four weeks, take CITH, preferably from a lay woman.

I received CITH for over 20 years before realizing that COTT was objectively better.

But you have missed my point. My belief that COTT is better is not a judgment on CITH receivers. I am saying nothing about their motives or their worth as persons. It is a judgment of a practice not of the people who practice it.

 

[Timothysis]

I am an ENFJ

An ENFJ??? What’s dat?!?!?

 

[ProVobis]

If my pastor tells me that CITH is no longer allowed, I will do whatever is allowed. There’s where the obedience comes in.

And where’s the obedience in daring people to receive only in the CITH and from a lay woman? Could you show us the document where this daring is allowed?

 

[ljubim]

So let me ask this; if the current Missal were revised incorporating more prayers than the TLM, more kneeling, more genuflecting and more signs of the cross, would that make it more “efficacious” than the TLM? Is “superiority” simply a numbers game?

I’m referring to the efficacious-ness with a person closer to God than I am, a priest, praying more to God on my behalf. You are putting words into my mouth, and arguing just for fun is not my cup of tea, so I’ll clock out for the rest of this thread. God Bless you (not sarcasm )

 

[mick321]

Catholics are REQUIRED to exercise moral judgment every waking hour of every single day.

God created the human race and endowed us with free will. Every day we are faced with temptation. Judgment is a gift from God - which is further developed by the teachings of our Holy Faith - to assist us in identifying and avoiding the both sin and the occasion of sin.

Properly formed Catholics know that to reject this gift is to put their own salvation at risk.

 

[Timothysis]

I’m referring to the efficacious-ness with a person closer to God than I am, a priest, praying more to God on my behalf. You are putting words into my mouth, and arguing just for fun is not my cup of tea, so I’ll clock out for the rest of this thread. God Bless you (not sarcasm )

Is not the culmination of Mass the sanctification of our souls by receiving Christ in the form of Bread and Wine? Are the prayers of the sacrament more important/efficacious than the sacrament itself??? Am I missing something here?

 

[mick321]

Catholics are REQUIRED to exercise moral judgment every waking hour of every single day.

God created the human race and endowed us with free will. Every day we are faced with temptation. Judgment is a gift from God - which is further developed by the teachings of our Holy Faith - to assist us in identifying and avoiding the both sin and the occasion of sin.

Properly formed Catholics know that to reject this gift is to put their own salvation at risk.

 

[CWBetts]

It is not judgmental to say that the Traditional Mass is superior to the new form.

It may not be judgmental, but it is definitely wrong. The two forms are equal. What you mean to say is that you prefer the traditional form, but it is not superior.

 

[Timothysis]

It may not be judgmental, but it is definitely wrong. The two forms are equal. What you mean to say is that you prefer the traditional form, but it is not superior.

Good luck, but that argument doesn’t seem to work here.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

An ENFJ??? What’s dat?!?!?

Meyers-Briggs personality typology.

E= extroverted
N= iNtuitive
F= feeling
J= judging

If you go to www.humanetrics.com you can take an abridged version of the test on-line. It will give you an idea of your personality type, based on the Meyers-Briggs model, which, is Jungian in it’s psychology.

It is pretty interesting stuff.
I took the MB test as part of a class in spirituality. It was a tool we used to help us find out what prayer styles may be of benefit to us.

 

[Timothysis]

Meyers-Briggs personality typology.

E= extroverted
N= iNtuitive
F= feeling
J= judging

If you go to www.humanetrics.com you can take an abridged version of the test on-line. It will give you an idea of your persoanlity type, based on the Meyers-Briggs model, which, is Jungian in it’s psychology.

It is pretty interesting stuff.
I took the MB test as part of a class in spirituality. It was a tool we used to help us find out what prayer styles may be of benefit to us.

Interesting…I would take it but I’m afraid that it would confirm that I am a total bore!!!

 

[Abenadar]

Interesting…I would take it but I’m afraid that it would confirm that I am a total bore!!!

Eh…I did it for fun/just to see years ago, and then once again more recently. According to it I haven’t changed much, but it’s just like the temperaments…It’s a very rough sort of picture of what a person might be or how they might act etc. While I’m mostly sanguine and melancholic, there’s no doubt that I, and everybody that has ever lived, has traits belonging to all four. It’s the same for the other personality test…Some of what it says will sound right on, but other things will be way off. I wouldn’t and don’t put too much store in it. How 'bout: personality type: human. Or “sinner”, or “struggling Catholic”…

 

[AlanFromWichita]

And where’s the obedience in daring people to receive only in the CITH and from a lay woman? Could you show us the document where this daring is allowed?

Sorry, I guess I was trying to play Spiritual Director with you. I was trying to “vaccinate” you against fear of CITH, but no biggie. For what it’s worth, I suppose mentioning it was enough; you don’t actually have to go do it.

Maybe I’ve been harsh, just as I thought others were being harsh. Sigh. From what I can tell, I was wrong in doing so, and I see that my idea above bombed. If my siblings in Christ will forgive me, I’ll rise back up, still a COTT/CITH optional person, but kinder and gentler.

Alan

 

[LLMom]

I suggest reading The Church Belligerent. It talks about this stuff.

 

[CWBetts]

I suggest reading The Church Belligerent. It talks about this stuff.

I think this section from the above article is most pertinent:

In various areas the Church grants certain options and leaves the choice to our prudential judgment. We may find certain practices preferable. Yet we cannot insist on them, because the Church does not. On the other hand, we may dislike certain practices. Yet, again, we cannot fault others for doing what the Church permits. We stray from militant to belligerent when we mandate what the Church does not, or forbid what the Church permits.

Take, for example, Natural Family Planning. Since the Church permits it, we cannot forbid or disparage it (as some do). Conversely, the Church does not require chapel veils (mantillas). Hence we ought not require them or denigrate those who do not wear them. Likewise Communion in the hand, although not the universal norm, is still permitted in every American diocese. On this last issue, a priest once explained to me his refusal to distribute Communion in the hand even though it is permitted: “Everyone else does whatever the [heck] he pleases, so I’m going to do whatever the [heck] I please.” Behold, The Church Belligerent. The issue here is not the priest’s preference for Communion on the tongue. Rather, it is the obstinate disobedience to legitimate Church authority because of his laudable preference.

 

[ProVobis]

Is not the culmination of Mass the sanctification of our souls by receiving Christ in the form of Bread and Wine? Are the prayers of the sacrament more important/efficacious than the sacrament itself??? Am I missing something here?

Yes. Spiritual communion.

 

[PJM]

=Timothysis;6742302]So let me ask this; if the current Missal were revised incorporating more prayers than the TLM, more kneeling, more genuflecting and more signs of the cross, would that make it more “efficacious” than the TLM? Is “superiority” simply a numbers game?

May I insert my view?

No. For he following reasons.

1. Latin remains the Language of the Universal Catholic Church
2. The EF is TOTALLY focused on God, which is the very mission and purpose of Mass.

Love and prayers,
Pat

 

[PJM]

Originally Posted by Oneofthewomen
Meyers-Briggs personality typology.

E= extroverted
N= iNtuitive
F= feeling
J= judging

If you go to www.humanetrics.com you can take an abridged version of the test on-line. It will give you an idea of your persoanlity type, based on the Meyers-Briggs model, which, is Jungian in it’s psychology.

***A cautionary NOTE:

For those who may not know; Carl Jung is one of the voodoo doctors of NEW AGE! ***Proceed at yor own risk.

God’s continued Blessings,******