Son an atheist

[PlayingGames]

I let my daughter stop going to mass when she was about 12, as she said she didn’t believe. She said that forcing her would only make her hate it more. My husband wasn’t going at that time and there was a lot of chaos in the home.
Now 8 years later she doesn’t go to church, and she’s on her second live in boyfriend. I wish I had insisted that she continue going to mass.

How anyone can claim to be an atheist, I don’t understand. You can’t prove the non existence of something. You could be an agnostic, and say you don’t know, but to be sure of God’s nonexistence is just foolish.

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Hi!

I don’t often comment here but I just thought I would offer an atheist perspective on the above post.

I would be someone who describes myself as atheist but I do not claim that god doesn’t exist. I simply don’t believe there is enough evidence to believe, therefore I don’t believe.

Not jumping in to start an argument etc, just thought it was worth mentioning.

Take care

 

[ConfusedLucy]

I’ve known plenty of people who were made to go to mass and dragged to confirmation as teens and it did nothing to stop them leaving the faith when older. Many of them are now in relationships with children and therefore haven’t “come back once they started having children”. Some are angry about their time in church but most people I know are just indifferent.

I don’t know what the answer is but I don’t believe you can recover a teens lost faith by forcing them into mass.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

So, would you force your 14 year old son who didn’t see the value of education to go to school?

You seem really intent on defending dragging a kid to church to someone who has no issue at all with it. You should go back and actually read what AdamPeter said and my response. But I’ll play along

Would I make my kid go to school? Well, that depends.

If my 14 year old who once loved school suddenly found it unbearable, the responsible thing to do would be to work with his teachers to find out why. Is he struggling socially? Academically? Is there an undiagnosed learning disability at work? Has he fallen in with the wrong crowd or is he battling depression? Drug or alcohol use? Is there some reason he would be better off in a different district, a more specialized school, or even homeschooling, if only temporarily?

I can tell you, the last thing I would do is shrug and tell them they can quit when they’re 18. That might get them through until graduation, but a total disregard for a child’s hatred of school won’t solve the underlying problem, and does nothing to help him prepare for college or the real world.

And of course, all of this is predicated on the idea that church and school are comparable legally, morally, and in the consequences quitting results in. They aren’t even close, but that’s another discussion.

 

[AdamP88]

Well that seems rather hostile.

Why does it seem hostile? It seems perfectly reasonable to me. Child must go to church with the rest of the family. End of story. I know that’s what my parents would have said to me if I decided at 14 that I wasn’t going to mass anymore.

I don’t buy into this rubbish of “respecting” everything that a 14 year old comes out with. I know a few people who raised their kids like that and they ended up believing all sorts of stupid half-baked ideologies and only half believing their Catholic faith.

I don’t think it’s harmful to tell a child that they’ll do what the rest of the family does in this regard. Sure, I’d like to think that I formed my children well enough to not worry about this kind of comment by the time they reached the teenage years.

 

[AdamP88]

I’ve known plenty of people who were made to go to mass and dragged to confirmation as teens and it did nothing to stop them leaving the faith when older. Many of them are now in relationships with children and therefore haven’t “come back once they started having children”. Some are angry about their time in church but most people I know are just indifferent.

I don’t know what the answer is but I don’t believe you can recover a teens lost faith by forcing them into mass.

Obviously you have to engage in some catechesis with the teenager and not just force them to go to mass. But if the family goes to mass then I don’t see any issue with the teenager having to go as well. I wouldn’t allow a teen to refuse medical assistance if they were in danger of death. Why should I allow them to put their soul in danger?

 

[PRmerger]

You seem really intent on defending dragging a kid to church to someone who has no issue at all with it. You should go back and actually read what AdamPeter said and my response. But I’ll play along

Not sure what I’ve said that prompts such a response. Have we fought before and I didn’t realize we were fighting?

As far as I’m concerned, I’m having a nice discussion here, furthering the dialogue along by posing questions, making people think, adding some thoughts, opinions…

Would I make my kid go to school? Well, that depends.

If my 14 year old who once loved school suddenly found it unbearable, the responsible thing to do would be to work with his teachers to find out why. Is he struggling socially? Academically? Is there an undiagnosed learning disability at work? Has he fallen in with the wrong crowd or is he battling depression? Drug or alcohol use? Is there some reason he would be better off in a different district, a more specialized school, or even homeschooling, if only temporarily?

I can tell you, the last thing I would do is shrug and tell them they can quit when they’re 18. That might get them through until graduation, but a total disregard for a child’s hatred of school won’t solve the underlying problem, and does nothing to help him prepare for college or the real world.

And of course, all of this is predicated on the idea that church and school are comparable legally, morally, and in the consequences quitting results in. They aren’t even close, but that’s another discussion.

Excellent.

So I think my point has been made: we make our kids do all sorts of things we don’t want them to do…even if it puts them at risk for hating it.

“I had to go to school, even when I didn’t want to, and now I reject education”…said no one, ever (that we should take seriously).

 

[ConfusedLucy]

Whether parents decide to take their unbelieving children to mass is a family decision but it does not guarantee that the child will believe again.

 

[AdamP88]

Whether parents decide to take their unbelieving children to mass is a family decision but it does not guarantee that the child will believe again.

True. But that’s where family rosary, prayers before bed, and reading the bible and catechism come in.

 

[ConfusedLucy]

True. But that’s where family rosary, prayers before bed, and reading the bible and catechism come in.

It’s probably important to be doing that from the start, I think once a child rejects faith suddenly starting something like that wouldn’t be as effective. One of the saddest things I saw when I did Sunday School was young children who were very enthusiastic about their faith with parents who didn’t have the time, inclination or possibly even faith to encourage and nurture it.

 

[AdamP88]

It’s probably important to be doing that from the start, I think once a child rejects faith suddenly starting something like that wouldn’t be as effective. One of the saddest things I saw when I did Sunday School was young children who were very enthusiastic about their faith with parents who didn’t have the time, inclination or possibly even faith to encourage and nurture it.

True. I think if kids have these things growing up there is less chance they’ll be swayed from the faith. I do think kids can have legitimate existential questions that parents need to address. Like: How can God always have existed? Why is God necessary? etc. Some philosophical research may be needed to provide a satisfactory answer.
I just don’t think that every passing whim of a child needs to be indulged as if it were the most profound thought ever. I’ve seen parents who do that and I don’t think it’s good.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

“I had to go to school, even when I didn’t want to, and now I reject education”…said no one, ever (that we should take seriously).

Who made that argument? You really want to knock it down, but I’ve said several times I don’t think making them go to church matters. It won’t push them away or draw them closer. Been there, done that.

 

[AClaire11]

True. But that’s where family rosary, prayers before bed, and reading the bible and catechism come in.

It might help, or it might not. My husband’s family did all of that and none of the children are practicing.

 

[exnihilo]

This is a tough issue. 14 is old enough to have firm convictions and be fairly independent. I realize 14 years olds are not very wise and, particularly in our society, not very responsible. But my grandfather dropped out of school at that age and started working. Those were different times but human nature hasn’t changed. I’m not sure that forcing the kid will change much.

My great grandfather was raised in a very devout Lutheran family. All his siblings were very religious. My great grandfather hated the church and was an atheist. My grandfather didn’t like the church very much and didn’t attend, though he had his kids attend (probably at the urging of my grandmother). He did have some belief and was probably a deist. My father had no problems with the church but isn’t particularly religious. I grew up going to church and always liked church. I later converted to Catholicism. My point in all this is that children aren’t just products of their environment. Atheists don’t just come from atheists but also from theists. Theists don’t just come from theists but also from atheists.

A 14 year old male who says he is an atheist probably isn’t going to become a good Catholic just because he mother forces him to go to Church. He may even develop some resentment. I think it is reasonable to ask him to attend on certain occasions like Christmas. But I don’t know if asking or forcing him to attend every Sunday is useful. I would seek out good manly Catholic role models and people that can answer questions he has or even challenge his beliefs while respecting them. But ultimately at this age it is up to your child to respond to the graces he has been given.

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

Why does it seem hostile? It seems perfectly reasonable to me. Child must go to church with the rest of the family. End of story. I know that’s what my parents would have said to me if I decided at 14 that I wasn’t going to mass anymore.

Mostly the tone. It’s fine that they have to go to mass, but to basically use parental authority to overrule their opinion on something that important comes off as hostile. “Your still going to mass.” is fine. “You are Catholic. You can decide not to be Catholic when you’re 18.” implies a disregard for their deeply held opinion and could damage the parental relationship during a crucial phase. One keeps communication open, the other stifles conversation.

(Yes, I know one can’t formally leave Catholicism)

I don’t think it’s harmful to tell a child that they’ll do what the rest of the family does in this regard. Sure, I’d like to think that I formed my children well enough to not worry about this kind of comment by the time they reached the teenage years.

Wouldn’t it be better they feel they can share this with you so that you can address it rather than feel they must hold it in and bide their time until they leave as adults?

 

[AdamP88]

Mostly the tone. It’s fine that they have to go to mass, but to basically use parental authority to overrule their opinion on something that important comes off as hostile. “Your still going to mass.” is fine. “You are Catholic. You can decide not to be Catholic when you’re 18.” implies a disregard for their deeply held opinion and could damage the parental relationship during a crucial phase. One keeps communication open, the other stifles conversation.

(Yes, I know one can’t formally leave Catholicism)

Wouldn’t it be better they feel they can share this with you so that you can address it rather than feel they must hold it in and bide their time until they leave as adults?

I’d have no problem discussing any concerns they have about the faith, existence of God etc. But I don’t believe that everything a teenager says needs to be treated as though they have the wisdom of the universe. I don’t think that telling them that “as long as you live under our roof you must obey our rules” is harmful. If they were still living in our home at 30 I’d expect that they go to mass as well. If they want to stop attending mass then they can find their own living space. Simple as that. All this is, of course, taking into account that the parents have made their best effort to pass on the faith and offer formation through the childhood and teenage years and this is being rejected by the child.

 

[AdamP88]

I think as well that it makes even more sense if it is an older child rejecting the faith and you wish to prevent younger children from getting a bad example. As far as I can see this is just putting the child’s eternal soul first.

 

[PRmerger]

Who made that argument? You really want to knock it down, but I’ve said several times I don’t think making them go to church matters. It won’t push them away or draw them closer. Been there, done that.

Yes, making them go to church matters. That’s my point.



And please read this as if I said it with a smiley face.

 

[Anton1000]

I am a Greek Catholic from catholic minority in Greece.In my country all cathplic are very religious and we go offten to church.In Grrece i havent see never a atgeist who become atheist.I think this happened because we Greek Cathopics are minority and religion is the most important in my culture.My girlfriend who was 20 years old(i am 20 years old too)are French and she say me that become atheist when she was 17 years old.I think enlightement do this before eniligtemet nowbody become atheist…

 

[EasterJoy]

I am a Greek Catholic from catholic minority in Greece.In my country all cathplic are very religious and we go offten to church.In Grrece i havent see never a atgeist who become atheist.I think this happened because we Greek Cathopics are minority and religion is the most important in my culture.My girlfriend who was 20 years old(i am 20 years old too)are French and she say me that become atheist when she was 17 years old.I think enlightement do this before eniligtemet nowbody become atheist…

There are many people who believe it was WWI and WWII that destroyed much of the bond between the Europeans and their religious observances. In France, though, I think it is considered a given that a great deal of antagonism towards religion came into the national identity during the French Revolution.

 

[Russell_SA]

My 14 year old told me he’s an atheist, and doesn’t want to go to church or confession anymore. My husband lost his faith and became an atheist a few years ago. I realize that not everything a 14 year-old says is carved in stone, so hopefully he will find faith in Jesus again. He no longer wants to go to church or confession. Should I make him? And if so, should I make him go to confession when I go, or just the required once a year?

Belief=conclusion. It’s the result of data that someone was exposed to and then they apply their logical thought process and come to a conclusion. The conclusion is not a conscious choice. Try to believe that A+B does not equal C. You can’t. It’s wonderful that he feel’s safe enough to come and tell you about who he is at this point. However, as to continuing to ask him to attend church, would you ask him to do this if he converted to Judaism? Islam? etc? You can still invite him to attend ceremony as a family event with mom, but imagine how disrespected you would feel if he was forcing you to come to his synagogue for the purpose of conversion instead of just wanting to be with you; asking you to act out all the muslim traditions and actions. Your relationship with your son will keep him in your life and that will have a heavy influence on his future. Don’t destroy that bridge.