Son being dragged into it

[holyrood]

The second thing I would ask is that you make sure you haven’t branded someone as something… You too can be part of the problem. Maybe your child is seeing something you or we here don’t and so is siding with the father? Please take that in. Not accusing, but sometimes people miss out on their own contribution to the problem.

Part of the problem, ironically, is that I have found a way to make a living doing what I love–music and writing, much of it done from home. So they see me on FB–and miss, although I’ve told them, that much of it is networking, marketing, finding new venues to attend, etc., which are necessary parts of the business side of it. They see me playing piano or flute. Hardly looks like work, and yet being proficient is part of my job description. And yes, it pays for the mortgage, heat, car, etc., but to them it just looks like fun.

Additionally, I do not complain. XH complains and makes himself out to be a victim, while when I have a frustrating day, I don’t talk about it, but ask them how their day was or point out something good.

And while I appreciate what you’re saying–and I agree there are definitely times when it’s true–I guess I’m sitting here having spent years, decades, seeking anyway to make things right and am caught in an alcoholic family of origin and an ex-husband who is a skilled narcissist if not a full blown sociopath who easily looks people in the eye and weaves a dozen lies.

umm… with all due respect there is no way to be 100% sure of this unless you witness every conversation he has with his dad. …

So, I would NOT ever mention the financial arragement with your ex. It is time he learns privacy and he can’t know other people’s fnances. However, I do agree with showing him budgeting skills. For example, look with him on-line at house prices and show him how mortgage payments are calculated so he gets an idea of what things cost.

He himself said that he knows what child support is because his dad handed him a check, a year ago. [Although child support has been paid by automatic deposit for years, so I’m not sure if his sense of time is that far off or if there was some game being played in writing a check supposedly for child support. CS is not for the amount that he saw on the check, either, so I have no idea, but he did say he saw it on a check that his dad handed him.]

In all fairness, I did not mention the financial arrangement. DS brought it up and named a specific amount. I did tell him that that is an issue that should be between me and his father and I told him it’s a number set by the law and courts and that I had no say in it.

That’s a great idea to look at actual house prices. I have started a sheet with monthly expenses for him to go over, and I reminded him that it took two of us to produce these children and that we are BOTH legally and morally obligated to contribute to their care and gave him enough figures to remind him that I am not living off their father by any means.

I can see the temptation in saying this but… it will just raise his curiosity more. Again, time to teach him to mind his own business.

I think that’s a valid point about raising his curiosity. I also think, however, that there are NO good answers when a child’s father has done the things their father has. And in truth, all of us learn through our experiences how little we really know of another’s situation. It seems the other choice was to say nothing at all in my defense as to why a devout Catholic files for divorce, or to spill the beans as to exactly why. I chose this as the middle ground.

I do also agree that he should have more say in the type of chores he does and control over the timing of the chores

Teenagers are hard in the best of times. And as much as you don’t want to make your son feel rejected, he is very soon going to be at that age where living under your roof is no longer a right but a priviledge and he needs to learn to tow the line

Angie

As to chores, they actually have great say in what they do. I typically leave a list of what needs to be done and say each of you pick 5. And they generally have near complete control over when–unless they abuse that and hours go by and the lawn is not mowed and they’re leaving soon for their dad’s for the weekend. Then, yes, I will say you need to turn off the ipad and take care of it because the city WILL fine me if the grass gets too long.

In truth, my kids have really not been difficult as teenagers, at least in comparison to what society says is normal. And in moments like today’s, maybe this is a good thing for me to remember. This is a kid who is a little entrepreneur, who wants to get out there and have a job and earn his own way, who bikes to the store to pick up groceries, does a lot of the repairs around the home, and is growing by leaps and bounds in his faith and taking part in the youth group and faith camps.

My kids have been put in a horrible position, trying to make sense of a situation that involves my alcoholic family of origin and all the dynamics that go with that, and their father who is at the very least a narcissist and possibly a sociopath–who was himself raised in an alcoholic family and learned bad habits from that that helped destroy our marriage.

I hope to answer more posts but am also trying to get more work done tonight. I truly appreciate every answer and the encouragement and suggestions.

 

[Allegra]

He himself said that he knows what child support is because his dad handed him a check, a year ago. [Although child support has been paid by automatic deposit for years, so I’m not sure if his sense of time is that far off or if there was some game being played in writing a check supposedly for child support. CS is not for the amount that he saw on the check, either, so I have no idea, but he did say he saw it on a check that his dad handed him.]

I don’t think it’s the end of the world for kids to know how much child support you receive for them. I remember being aware of the amount my dad paid from a young age, though my parents get along well and didn’t use us to manipulate one another. I understood that the money my dad gave my mom money for our food, clothing, and needs. I think the most reasonable way to approach this with a 15yo is to acknowledge that his dad pays money to help with his children’s needs. That’s what dads do. That’s what he would have been expected to do were you still married. (no need to bring up the fact that that expectation wasn’t being met.) It’s also okay to acknowledge the reality that there is an additional cost to living separately and money is more likely to be short.

 

[Xantippe]

You son’s father is feeding him a bunch of BS, which is unfortunately very common with divorced parents. There are two issues as I see it. Your son in concerned about the financial welfare of his father because he has been inappropriately pulling him into his business.

The first thing I would do is contact him and tell him in no uncertain terms that if that doesn’t stop there will be legal consequences. Many courts and judges are fully aware of parental alienation and take a very dim view of parents who attempt it on innocent kids.

Secondly, I would resist the temptation to tell your son that his father is a whining crybaby who made his own choices and needs to man up and deal with the consequences, even if it’s true. Try and deal with it as if you were still married. What would you say if your son was concerned about dad not having enough money? I would actually acknowledge that his financial situation IS hard, and that is in part to the separation. Functioning as two households as compared to one is very expensive. Acknowledge his concern for his father as legitimate. I also second showing him an example of the budget you have to work with. Let the numbers speak for themselves. He’s actually at the perfect age for that talk anyway, if not a little late.

If he’s concerned about the cost of clothing specifically, look up a couple school outfits online and add up the cost. Brainstorm with him about ways to reduce costs. Acknowledge that financial difficulties are a lifetime struggle, but you will work together as a family to make sure you don’t go hungry or naked. In this way, you can lead him to discover for himself that finances are tight for both you and your ex and he will know that the next time his dad tries to run his mouth.

As far as the chores issue, I think every kid things his brothers or sisters have less chores than they do. Even though it’s complete nonsense, give him the opportunity to state his case. Some things you can do to make him feel he has more control over the situation would be to let him choose or switch chores if he just genuinely hates the specific chores he has, but wouldn’t mind other options. For example, if he thinks his sister has it easy because she has to make dinner and he has to do the dishes, let him switch. Either he will learn to cook or he’ll realize that dishes aren’t so bad after all. You could also consider giving him more control of when the chores get done. (obviously, this only works for things that don’t have to be done every day.) If the chores he objects to are his own self-care (cleaning his room, doing his laundry, etc) you can let him live with the consequences of not doing it. You can also point out that if you are busy doing a, b, and c task, you aren’t available to drive him to basketball or whatever thing he wants you to do.

Very good.

I really like people’s advice to use this as an opportunity for financial education and I LOVE the chore switch advice. I think parents can get into a rut about chore division (I know mine did), so cross training can be helpful.

We are a married household, but one way we manage big kid expectations of unlimited free time is that at the beginning of the summer, we announce to the big kids (girl 15 and boy 12) that we expect them to do the following Monday-Friday:

–one hour of household help (may include help with baby sister)
–one hour of reading
–one hour of educational activity (may be covered by appropriate reading or music practice)
–one hour of exercise

That amounts to no more than 3-4 hours a day. Now, the truth is that the big kids have probably rarely done the full fours a day this summer. However, it’s primarily an anti-whining system, as if the kid has done only 2 hours, he or she knows that he or she got off easy.

Another concern I have about this situation is that the OP’s ex-husband may be guilting the teen son into not asking him for stuff that the OP’s ex-husband ought to be doing for him/is required to do for him. So, I would keep my ears open to make sure that isn’t happening.

 

[Xantippe]

Sorry you’re going through this - one thing to remember is that **teens often vent at the parent they feel “safe” with in these situations. **In other words, while a deep down part of him would like to tell his dad to quit whining and man up, he can’t possibly say that (or anything against his dad) for fear of losing him. On the other hand, he feels secure enough in your love that he knows he can say just about anything and you’re not going to leave him.

So even if he’s upset with his dad (and probably is for his dad dragging him into it), it’s much “safer” to attack you then go against him.

Hope that made sense.

Much hugs, love and prayers! Teens are incredibly hard.

CJ

Yes.

One possibility here is that the kid’s dad is making the kid feel bad about every dime that he spends on the kid.

 

[Xantippe]

I don’t think it’s the end of the world for kids to know how much child support you receive for them. I remember being aware of the amount my dad paid from a young age, though my parents get along well and didn’t use us to manipulate one another. I understood that the money my dad gave my mom money for our food, clothing, and needs. I think the most reasonable way to approach this with a 15yo is to acknowledge that his dad pays money to help with his children’s needs. That’s what dads do. That’s what he would have been expected to do were you still married. (no need to bring up the fact that that expectation wasn’t being met.) It’s also okay to acknowledge the reality that there is an additional cost to living separately and money is more likely to be short.

Yes.

I’d even go so far as to take the child support amount, divide by the number of children being supported, and compare to the family budget.

15 is a big kid. He could be living completely on his own in three years.