Son is asking to go to church

[Scanner]

Well, not to be too “cosmic” about matters, I feel her aethiesm has served a family purpose. Our kids are very good and moral and I attribute that to her aetheism.

And it’s a natural “good”, not the kind of good like “Well, if I do this, I’m going to hell so I had better not.”

To an aethiest, nothing is more important and relevant as the here-and–now, since there is no afterlife to them. So, if what you do now and here matters and has a worldly consequence (vs. a spiritual consequence), you tend to act a little more morally (generally. . .God. . .my words could be construed that if you are spiritual you are amoral. . .and that’s not what I mean I hope you know).

However, the flip side of that outlook is you tend to be superficial at times, and I think she would admit to that fault. I guess if you are overly spiritual, the flip side is worldy matters, such as basic finances or your health, can get neglected, I don’t know - haven’t much thought about the consequence of being wrapped up in the spiritual world all of the time.

Once, during a fight years ago, I called her materialistic and I don’t think she has ever forgiven me for that, it stung so much. She called me lazy (which it stung. . .but it’s true - I can tend to “plop”, LOL. I have forgiven her.).

My Intelligent Design beleifs frustrate her.

I have never understood why we could not arrive at different conclusions about the universe but some (maybe most?) aethiests are decidely anti-God/anti-Church (vs. being “neutral-God”) and there is a thread of that running through her, I guess.

She can’t seem to discuss the matter calmly so most of the time, the subject is entirely avoided to keep the family peace.

Of course now, our 10 year old may be forcing the matter to a boil.

Well. . .I hope this gives you insight to the “can of worms” our family is, LOL.

 

[KiraSana]

Scanner,

I agree with many of the other posters that God is using your son to call not only him, but you and your family. Don’t feel like you don’t measure up in some way because you can’t pray and study like a religious, or even your neighbor! Raising your sons and caring for your family, with all the joys and chores that go with that, are beautiful prayers you can offer to God.

I encourage you to seek the truth about God and His Church. I was raised in various non-denominational Protestant churches exactly like the one you describe. I was baptized in one of them and grew to love God and in my relationship with Him; I served in various ministries and loved it. But something was missing and I couldn’t quite put my finger on what it was. I started looking at the doctrines and theology of the Protestant faiths and became very disheartened. They say they rely on the Bible as their sole source of truth, but each arrive at different interpretations, many that directly contridict each other. Which is right? Only one position can be true. This was just the beginning; after much prayer and study, by the grace of God, I now know the Catholic Church is the “sole Church of Christ, which in the Creed we profess to be one, holy, catholic and apostolic… …The Church does not possess [these four characteristics] of herself; it is Christ who, through the Holy Spirit, makes his Church one, holy, catholic, and apostolic, and it is he who calls her to realize each of these qualities.” Catechism, 811.

You also commented that no church will agree with everything you believe. You are correct. If we rely on ourselves to be the standard of truth, no other person, much less church, will agree with us on all points. This is why there are thousands of Protestant denominations/congregations, with more being created every day. However, we have an obligation to seek the Truth and form our consciences accordingly. As a parent, you have the additional responsibility of guiding your sons and protecting them from things that would do them harm or lead them astray, whether physical, mental, emotional, or spiritual. God has entrusted your sons to you and will give you the grace and tools you need so as to raise them to be men of God; all you have to do is ask with an open heart. “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.
For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.” Matt. 7:7,8.

I will be praying for your and your family as you continue on your journey…

 

[Scanner]

Kira,

The Church does not possess [these four characteristics] of herself; it is Christ who, through the Holy Spirit, makes his Church one, holy, catholic, and apostolic, and it is he who calls her to realize each of these qualities." Catechism, 811.

Thanks for the thoughts but this is something that makes Church difficult for me - the cryptic nature of it.

The Church is Christ, Christ is the Church.

Makes for wonderful contemplation and study I’m sure but in the end, it just confuses me.

This is part of the problem. You have to KISS with me. Another problem is I work healthcare and Sat into Sun morning is often my shift. I get home and want to sleep. Observing sabbath will be difficult.

I respect the fact you all are obviously enlightened (or else why would have I posted here in the first place?). I may get there but I have to reconcile the basics in a non-cryptic format.

I am not sure why God, Church or Christ left the gospel in crytpic format but it is what it is, I guess and I’ll have to do the best I can for my son.

 

[KarenElissa]

This is part of the problem. You have to KISS with me. Another problem is I work healthcare and Sat into Sun morning is often my shift. I get home and want to sleep. Observing sabbath will be difficult.

God (or the Church for that matter) doesn’t expect the impossible. There are people like you who have to work on Sunday. Your job is important and necessary for the rest of us. Just do what you can.

I would say, just take things one step at a time. Don’t worry about how you will mange things now, just start dipping your toes in and take things as the come. You don’t expect your son to know everything he will need for life right now, or to even worry about that yet. It is the same for yourself.

You don’t know everything about God and the Church (who does?!), that is ok. When you son asks a question and you don’t have an answer, the best gift you can give him is to say, “I don’t know. I’ll look it up and get back to you, or lets find that out together.” Helping your son learn to find answers is a WONDERFUL gift!

I am not sure why God, Church or Christ left the gospel in crytpic format but it is what it is, I guess and I’ll have to do the best I can for my son.

My response to this, is what kind of God would he be if we had it all figured out? Wouldn’t that just make him a pretty smart human? And we have plenty of those around. Instead he is so much bigger and better than anything we can imagine. Sure, there are definitely times I wish God could write me a nice e-mail with exactly what I need to know in it but then I probably wouldn’t believe that either.

 

[blossom02]

I think that a good place to start with your son is the Baltimore Catechism. The first questions let him know who created him and what for. This is the beginning of a relationship with God. Also start with creation. A childrens bible will be easier for him to understand and will help you brush up on the bible.

He needs to know that God loves him and created him to be with him for eterinty. He needs to know that the only way to know God is though pray and that is why Catholics worship the way that they do. He needs to know it isn’t magic and we don’t learn about God instantly but we grow slowly with Gods grace as God sees fit for us individually.

May God bless your son and your journey home.

I would also ask your mother for a bit of help in this.

Your son also needs the graces from baptism.

Also leaving yours sons soul in the hands of a basketball club is not going to be fullfilling to him in the end and the end is what we are looking at here.

 

[blossom02]

catholic.com/radio/calendar.php

try listening to some of these radio show archives they will be helpful in finding some answers to your questions.

 

[RobNY]

RobNY/Gabriel:

I agree with your sentiments. I guess kids are well. . .naive.

I mean, my son, up til this point thinks Church is about getting together with friends, playing basketball, getting the “Most Christ-like” award, and learning about the nature of God vs. worshiping God.

I mean, that’s fun when you think about it. Kinda like college where you go work-out with friends and then come back, sip a few beers and talk about the meaning of life.

You look back on those years and realize you were kind of a chucklehead (but there’s still fond memories).

I think you’ve got it. There’s nothing really wrong about enjoying oneself in the company of other like-minded people. The problem is substituting triviality for sacred reverence

He’s a kid.

He also thinks that you hand a person a credit card and that’s money.

I’ll have to be patient and show him.

I must admit, I’m almost 20, and I still think money is something parents mysteriously produce.

The problem will be keeping the peace in the household. My wife is very headstrong and sensitive. She’s a fairly firm aetheist. Contrast this to my mother, she’s a devout Catholic. (the women in my family) . I knooooowwww she would love to see him baptized in the Catholic Church.

I understand. I think most of us, at some point in our life, get into unfortunate disputes with people who have different belief sets than our own. It can be very hard to understand that the other person isn’t simply being stupid or willfully obstinate, and likewise, they will find the same problem when considering you. Best of luck in everything.

I almost fear if he does take to this Church and he joins this Church, she’ll be more devastated than not going at all, if that makes any sense.

No, I understand. Catholicism is seen as a “religion” in a way that casual Protestantism is not. Catholicism has a definite heirarchy, rules and regulations which makes it that way. On the other hand, Protestant churches of the type that your son is familiar with, tend to absolutely shun the idea that they are a religion. I’ve seen it time and again: they’ll claim, for instance, that Christianity is “not a religion.” Or they’ll say, I believe in Jesus, but I’m not a religious person, trying to make the distinction between an organization with rules and regulations and their idealized pure and spiritual relationship with Jesus. This is much more friendly to people of the mindset of your wife-- it doesn’t have that oppressive smell of religion which really and truly disgusts or terrifies so many people.

It’s not something you seem to have, but it seems that for many people religion is something which causes reflexive disgust.

I may have to concede to the wife to take him to his friend’s Church, as this is about him, not me, but I will have to tell her that when he has questions, when I field them, my response will have to be measured.

Indeed. As a parent and as husband you have obligations, both to your son and to your wife. It’s difficult to juggle them. If your son is sincerely interested in going to church, it would be a disservice to stifle that interest. If your wife has sincere objections to your son going to Catholic church, then, likewise, it seems that you have to find some way to respect your wife’s wishes.

As I said, I don’t think I can shepperd him through this very well, especially when he has questions but I’ll do my best. I’ll say I’ll have to study it and get back to you.

Yes. Some good resources are the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and a summary of it, the Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

The Compendium is a pretty good place to start. It uses question and answer format, is fairly short, and has references to the full and more detailed Catechism.

If you need a hand with anything, feel free to ask.

-Rob

 

[Scanner]

RobNY,

Well, I asked my son tonight if he had a preference and bless his heart, he said no, he didn’t really care (and I don’t think he was saying that to just please me). Now. . .the only part will be if the wife has any objections/opinion on the matter. I don’t expect her help (and how would a non-Catholic aetheist be able to help her son through this anyway?) but we will see if there is resistance/displeasure on her part.

I"m sure my son wouldn’t want parental marital strife to result from his own search for God and his spirituality.

As far as all the other stuff we discussed in this thread (and I thank the forum for letting me get it out), I guess what I am saying, given my busy lifestyle (my own choice), I don’t see me being a “Triathlete Catholic” but hopefully, I can start small.

I guess I foresee the following future of how I would re-develop back into a Catholic. This is in no particular order

1. We will go to Mass, pray, listen, and reflect.
2. I think the suggestion of studying Baltimore Catheticism is good.
3. Being unable to tithe. But I’ll try to give generously at collection time.
4. Not being able to keep Sabbath regularly. Did I mention we are going through an unplanned pregnancy? Our life is crazy with 2 careers and a 3rd baby and juggling that - late night feedings. Not to mention the wife isn’t really a “I’ll chase the little one around” type of mother in social settings like Church. She prefers the peace of home.
5. CCD will be difficult although that’s the part he’s asking for - “Sunday School.” Maybe short contained “bible classes” will be workable.
6. I will try to experience the sacraments with him (confession, Eucharist, baptism of course after a few Masses and learning about Catholicism and if the wife gives the blessing)
7. Observing Lent and fasting. . .I think that would be a valuable way of fostering spirituality. I am not sure if a non-baptized person can attend Ash Wednesday or not but I imagine observance of Lent wouldn’t be prohibited.

Not trying to be the dreaded “Cafeteria Catholic” off the bat. . .but this will be the best I can probably do. I am not sure I can immerse myself totally in your lifestyle. Not excusing it but there’s a lot of complications to understand and work out and keep the family peace at the same time.

 

[Scanner]

RobNY,

It’s not something you seem to have, but it seems that for many people religion is something which causes reflexive disgust.

BTW, yes, you are correct.

I think the term I have heard thrown around is “Religiosity.” THis causes reflexive disgust.

Religiousity has been the cause of many wars, not religion IMO and all religions, with maybe the exception of Buddhism has been guilty of religiosity, with probably Christianity, Islam, and Juddahism being the tops.

Culturally, I am not sure why that is so.

It’s probably part proselytation and part “Western-thought” which sees matters more in “Good vs. Evil.” vs. Shades of gray (Eastern-thought).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity

I guess that’s what I mean - the people at this forum score high on “religiosity” whereas I would score low.

(dropping the Triathlete analogy)

 

[St_Gabriel]

Hi Scanner,

Nice to see that God is co-operating with you and your son and definately leading you both into the Catholic church. Here is also something to consider. Get your son a new testiment bible (Catholic version - of course). One that contains daily readings (these are pretty short but will help him to read to the end). The reading schedule will make sure he doesn’t get too much info, too fast. (The one that I had when I was a kid took 2 years to complete and I still have it. )

The idea of giving him his own bible may be less threatening to your wife than sending him off to a protestant mega church because he’ll have to rely on his interpretation rather than some stranger. By the time he is finished he’ll have a better understanding of who Christ is and what He did for us. Then use your catechism to help answer any questions that he or your wife may run into such as where does the church fit into all of this.

 

[Neophyte_Rose]

Scanner,

It might be beneficial to note that you can certainly pick which Mass you attend; usually a parish will have approximately three different Mass times for the same Sunday Mass… so you could go Saturday night, early Sunday morning or late Sunday morning - or possibly even later on Sunday evening.

Also, as far as Ash Wednesday is concerned; the unbaptized are encouraged to participate and can even recieve the ashes on their foreheads if they so wish… it is up to the individual.

I am praying that God will bless you and your family richly during this upcoming Lenten Season.

Do you remember the story of the loaves and the fishes? The Apostles only had a little bit to offer - but God fed thousands from that little bit. All you have to offer to God is what you have, what you can.

No matter how little or insignificant it may seem to you or to us, let no one judge you for it. For what “little” you offer to God (and really, all anyone can offer is “little”), He will do great things with it. So I would encourage you to start as you have suggested - just give him your loaves of bread, and trust in Him. He will do the rest.

Honestly, what you have suggested to begin with sounds like a fantastic start… just don’t overwhelm yourself or your family, and keep moving towards God any way that you can.

He will do the rest.

Furthermore, I am reminded of a Scripture passage (not sure which) where Jesus says that God is more pleased with the repentant tax collector who beats his chest, hangs his head lowly and begs forgiveness than with the self-righteous Pharisse (sp?) who, merely to express his own greatness and glory in his own pride, stands at the altar of God.

I see in your posting, the repentant tax collector who realizes that he has little to give. Your humility and honesty should place you in good stead with our saviour. So do not despair of your own relationship with Christ; there must be some of those invisible bonds of union remaining for such good to be coming through you and through your son.

Imagine that you are playing … I dunno… basketball … with your son (when he’s five). You lift him up to the net, and he sinks the ball. Obviously, you helped him a lot. He could not have sunk that basket without your help. Yet you are still proud of him for the part, however small, that he played.

That is like God with us. He lifts us up, and we couldn’t sink a basket without that - without His help, our efforts would amount to nothing. But with His help - and with our trust in Him - we can score the point. We need to remain humble, of course - it is mostly all Him working with so little from us.

But never despair of how little you can give. If you give what you can - tithing even a few dollars every couple of weeks (honestly, as a student, I don’t give as much financially to the Church as it does to help me out… when I couldn’t afford laundry soap or a blanket for nighttime (being up north where it’s cold) my local parish helped me to obtain these necessary items by covering the cost - yet still I am to take it as a good thing that I might put in three dollars in the collection basket and forego my coffee and donut one Sunday) - or only saying three Hail Marys where others have said three rosaries - if you give your best and honestly seek to please God by living your life honorably… and if you retain your humble spirit… those three Hail Marys might mean more than a thousand rosaries.

St. Therese, the Little Flower, says that if you pick up a single thumbtack - and if you do that for love of God - then that single, simple action can unleash the grace necessary to save a soul.

So I encourage you to take aim, and remember that God is lifting you up. What little you can give, give it knowing that God will do a lot with it.

May God be with you (and He will be).

Pax Christi,
Esther Rose

 

[jmcrae]

I don’t see me being a “Triathlete Catholic” but hopefully, I can start small.

That’s the best way.

1. Not being able to keep Sabbath regularly. Did I mention we are going through an unplanned pregnancy? Our life is crazy with 2 careers and a 3rd baby and juggling that - late night feedings. Not to mention the wife isn’t really a “I’ll chase the little one around” type of mother in social settings like Church. She prefers the peace of home.

The wonderful thing that you will discover is that the “rules” are only for those who actually can follow them - Catholicism looks really difficult from the outside, but on the inside, it is really very gentle and understanding. Nobody expects people who are sick, who are taking care of little children, or who too far from a Church, to be able to get to Mass each week; they are dispensed from the obligation.

1. CCD will be difficult although that’s the part he’s asking for - “Sunday School.” Maybe short contained “bible classes” will be workable.

Many Dioceses have programs available after school or on weekends for kids who attend public school; he would be more than welcome to join with one of these.

1. I will try to experience the sacraments with him (confession, Eucharist, baptism of course after a few Masses and learning about Catholicism and if the wife gives the blessing)

Expect it to take a bit longer than that.

Once you and your son make a final decision to become Catholic, there will be a process of - I guess the best phrase would be, “becoming ready” - called RCIA. The RCIA process can take anywhere from several months to several years, depending on the program and depending on the individuals. (My own RCIA process took 17 years - most people take about two years.)

1. Observing Lent and fasting. . .I think that would be a valuable way of fostering spirituality. I am not sure if a non-baptized person can attend Ash Wednesday or not but I imagine observance of Lent wouldn’t be prohibited.

Everything except the seven Sacraments themselves is open to you - you cannot go to Confession yet or receive Holy Communion until after you receive Baptism (which will be after a process of getting ready) but you can certainly start to use Holy Water, Ash Wednesday ashes, and even the Rosary, as soon as you feel ready.

Not trying to be the dreaded “Cafeteria Catholic” off the bat. . .but this will be the best I can probably do. I am not sure I can immerse myself totally in your lifestyle. Not excusing it but there’s a lot of complications to understand and work out and keep the family peace at the same time.

One step at a time.

Talk to a priest and find out how to get started. I think you’re going to be just fine. It takes time to change the habits of a lifetime, and you’ve got all the time you need.

 

[holdencaulfield]

I would say:

-Go to Mass

-Teach him about the Bible

-Teach him to pray

Other than that accept his wants but don’t push it, sometimes (in fact often, when one is pushed into religion they learn to hate it.) Get him a Bible with pictures I used to love that when I was a kid.