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Daniel_Marsh
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Did any of the church fathers or NT writers make the connection that Son of God equals Jesus is God?
quotes please.
quotes please.
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mkarzon
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Not sure if this is what you’re looking for, but here’s a couple:
“…for we have learned that He is the Son of the True God Himself…the Father of all has a Son, who is both the first-born Word of God and is God.” -St. Justin Martyr, First Apology
“…He that is quite evidently true God, He that is put on a level with the Lord of the Universe because He was His Son…” -St. Clement of Alexandria, Exhortation to the Greeks
“…for we have learned that He is the Son of the True God Himself…the Father of all has a Son, who is both the first-born Word of God and is God.” -St. Justin Martyr, First Apology
“…He that is quite evidently true God, He that is put on a level with the Lord of the Universe because He was His Son…” -St. Clement of Alexandria, Exhortation to the Greeks
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Zahmir
Guest
Um… John 1:1-14? In the beginning was the Word. The word was God and the word was with God.
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mkarzon
Guest
Here’s one from the NT (RSVCE):
“But Jesus answered them, “My father is working still, and I am working”. This why the Jews sought all the more to kill him, because he not only broke the sabbath, but also called God his Father, making himself equal with God” -Jn 5:17-18
A Jehovah’s Witness, and others with similar beliefs, will reject this by saying, Jesus didn’t say He was equal to God, it was the Jews who said it.
That’s a pretty thin argument. Neither Jesus, who knows mens hearts (Mk 2:8), nor John the inspired writer, bother to correct the Jews on this important matter.
“But Jesus answered them, “My father is working still, and I am working”. This why the Jews sought all the more to kill him, because he not only broke the sabbath, but also called God his Father, making himself equal with God” -Jn 5:17-18
A Jehovah’s Witness, and others with similar beliefs, will reject this by saying, Jesus didn’t say He was equal to God, it was the Jews who said it.
That’s a pretty thin argument. Neither Jesus, who knows mens hearts (Mk 2:8), nor John the inspired writer, bother to correct the Jews on this important matter.
F
FightingFat
Guest
MATTHEW 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
MATTHEW 10:40 . . . he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
MATTHEW 11:27 All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
Just for starters
MATTHEW 10:40 . . . he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
MATTHEW 11:27 All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
Just for starters
A
Angelos
Guest
In the passion narratives, Jesus makes it clear that His being Son of God denotes His divinity:Did any of the church fathers or NT writers make the connection that Son of God equals Jesus is God?
quotes please.
Mark 14: 61-64 Again the high priest asked him and said to him: Art thou the Christ,* the Son of the Blessed God*? And Jesus said to him: I am. And you shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of the power of God and coming with the clouds of heaven. Then the high priest rending his garments, saith: What need we any further witnesses? You have heard the blasphemy. What think you? Who all condemned him to be guilty of death.
The high priest of the time understood that Jesus made Himself equal to God when He referred to a prophecy in Daniel’s book.
More, all of the Evangelists imply that Jesus never used the phrase “our father”, but always said “my Father” while talking of God. Likewise, He was the Son versus many son*s *(Paul) or children(John) of God.
Demons called Jesus “the Son of God” in fear & revered Him:
Mark 3:11-12. And the unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him: and they cried, saying:**Thou art the Son of God. **
The disciples adored Jesus because they knew Him to be the Son of God:
Matthew 14:33. And they that were in the boat came and adored him, saying: Indeed** thou art the Son of God**.
Finally, the following was taken from the martyrdom of St Polycarp, which dated back to the second century: newadvent.org/fathers/0102.htm
But when the adversary of the race of the righteous, the envious, malicious, and wicked one, perceived the impressive nature of his martyrdom, and [considered] the blameless life he had led from the beginning, and how he was now crowned with the wreath of immortality, having beyond dispute received his reward, he did his utmost that not the least memorial of him should be taken away by us, although many desired to do this, and to become possessors of his holy flesh. For this end he suggested it to Nicetes, the father of Herod and brother of Alce, to go and entreat the governor not to give up his body to be buried, “lest,” said he, “forsaking Him that was crucified, they begin to worship this one.” This he said at the suggestion and urgent persuasion of the Jews, who also watched us, as we sought to take him out of the fire, being ignorant of this, that it is neither possible for us ever to forsake Christ, who suffered for the salvation of such as shall be saved throughout the whole world (the blameless one for sinners), nor to worship any other. For Him indeed, as being the Son of God, we adore; but the martyrs, as disciples and followers of the Lord, we worthily love on account of their extraordinary affection towards their own King and Master, of whom may we also be made companions and fellow-disciples!
Peace to all,
Angelos N.
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teachccd
Guest
And Jesus walked about in the temple area on the Portico of Solomon.Did any of the church fathers or NT writers make the connection that Son of God equals Jesus is God?
quotes please.
24 So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long are you going to keep us in suspense? 11 If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.” 25 Jesus answered them, "I told you 12 and you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify to me. 26 But you do not believe, because you are not among my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish. No one can take them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, 13 and no one can take them out of the Father’s hand. 30 14 The Father and I are one." (John 10:24-30)
If the sheep are not in God’s hand then in whose hands are they??
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teachccd
Guest
Irenaeus (115-190). As a boy he listened to Polycarp, the disciple of John. He became Bishop of Lyons.
“The Church, though dispersed throughout the whole world, even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and their disciples this faith: …one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are in them; and in one Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who became incarnate for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who proclaimed through the prophets the dispensations of God, and the advents, and the birth from a virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the ascension into heaven in the flesh of the beloved Christ Jesus, our Lord, and His manifestation from heaven in the glory of the Father ‘to gather all things in one,’ and to raise up anew all flesh of the whole human race, in order that to Christ Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Savior, and King, according to the will of the invisible Father, ‘every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess; to him, and that He should execute just judgment towards all…’” (Against Heresies X.l)
Tertullian (160-215). African apologist and theologian. He wrote much in defense of Christianity.
"We define that there are two, the Father and the Son, and three with the Holy Spirit, and this number is made by the pattern of salvation…[which] brings about unity in trinity, interrelating the three, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are three, not in dignity, but in degree, not in substance but in form, not in power but in kind. They are of one substance and power, because there is one God from whom these degrees, forms and kinds devolve in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit." (Adv. Prax. 23; PL 2.156-7).
Ignatius of Antioch (died 98/117). Bishop of Antioch. He wrote much in defense of Christianity.
“In Christ Jesus our Lord, by whom and with whom be glory and power to the Father with the Holy Spirit for ever” (n. 7; PG 5.988).
“We have also as a Physician the Lord our God Jesus the Christ the only-begotten Son and Word, before time began, but who afterwards became also man, of Mary the virgin. For ‘the Word was made flesh.’ Being incorporeal, He was in the body; being impassible, He was in a passable body; being immortal, He was in a mortal body; being life, He became subject to corruption, that He might free our souls from death and corruption, and heal them, and might restore them to health, when they were diseased with ungodliness and wicked lusts.” (Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, eds., The ante-Nicene Fathers, Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1975 rpt., Vol. 1, p. 52, Ephesians 7.)
“The Church, though dispersed throughout the whole world, even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and their disciples this faith: …one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are in them; and in one Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who became incarnate for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who proclaimed through the prophets the dispensations of God, and the advents, and the birth from a virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the ascension into heaven in the flesh of the beloved Christ Jesus, our Lord, and His manifestation from heaven in the glory of the Father ‘to gather all things in one,’ and to raise up anew all flesh of the whole human race, in order that to Christ Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Savior, and King, according to the will of the invisible Father, ‘every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess; to him, and that He should execute just judgment towards all…’” (Against Heresies X.l)
Tertullian (160-215). African apologist and theologian. He wrote much in defense of Christianity.
"We define that there are two, the Father and the Son, and three with the Holy Spirit, and this number is made by the pattern of salvation…[which] brings about unity in trinity, interrelating the three, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are three, not in dignity, but in degree, not in substance but in form, not in power but in kind. They are of one substance and power, because there is one God from whom these degrees, forms and kinds devolve in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit." (Adv. Prax. 23; PL 2.156-7).
Ignatius of Antioch (died 98/117). Bishop of Antioch. He wrote much in defense of Christianity.
“In Christ Jesus our Lord, by whom and with whom be glory and power to the Father with the Holy Spirit for ever” (n. 7; PG 5.988).
“We have also as a Physician the Lord our God Jesus the Christ the only-begotten Son and Word, before time began, but who afterwards became also man, of Mary the virgin. For ‘the Word was made flesh.’ Being incorporeal, He was in the body; being impassible, He was in a passable body; being immortal, He was in a mortal body; being life, He became subject to corruption, that He might free our souls from death and corruption, and heal them, and might restore them to health, when they were diseased with ungodliness and wicked lusts.” (Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, eds., The ante-Nicene Fathers, Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1975 rpt., Vol. 1, p. 52, Ephesians 7.)
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Daniel_Marsh
Guest
Yes, this going along the lines that I am asking about.In the passion narratives, Jesus makes it clear that His being Son of God denotes His divinity:
…
Peace to all,
Angelos N.
Luke 8:28
When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.
Note, “most high” means God.
How did the fathers interpret Mark 14: 61-64 or Matthew 26:63-65? Did they make the Son of God meaning God connection? Did they make the Daniel quote connection that you pointed out?
Mark 14:61-64 (King James Version)
61But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
62And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
63Then the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What need we any further witnesses?
64Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.
Matthew 26:63-65 (King James Version)
63But Jesus held his peace, And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
64Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
65Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.
Luke 5:21
The Pharisees and the teachers of the law began thinking to themselves, “Who is this fellow who speaks blasphemy? Who can forgive sins but God alone?”
John 10:33
“We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
John 10:36
what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?
Apology (Aristides)
newadvent.org/fathers/1012.htmThe Christians, then, trace the beginning of their religion from Jesus the Messiah; and he is named the Son of God Most High. And it is said that God came down from heaven, and from a Hebrew virgin assumed and clothed himself with flesh; and the Son of God lived in a daughter of man. This is taught in the gospel, as it is called, which a short time ago was preached among them; and you also if you will read therein, may perceive the power which belongs to it. This Jesus, then, was born of the race of the Hebrews; and he had twelve disciples in order that the purpose of his incarnation might in time be accomplished. But he himself was pierced by the Jews, and he died and was buried; and they say that after three days he rose and ascended to heaven. Thereupon these twelve disciples went forth throughout the known parts of the world, and kept showing his greatness with all modesty and uprightness. And hence also those of the present day who believe that preaching are called Christians, and they are become famous.
On the Trinity (Hilary of Poitiers) > Book VI
newadvent.org/fathers/330206.htm
- Did devils fail to understand the full meaning of this name of Son? For we are valuing the heretics at their true worth if we refute them no longer by the teaching of Apostles, but out of the mouth of devils. They cry, and cry often, What have I to do with You, Jesus, Thou Son of God most High Luke 8:28? Truth wrung this confession from them against their will; their reluctant obedience is a witness to the force of the Divine nature within Him. When they fly from the bodies they have long possessed, it is His might that conquers them; their confession of His nature is an act of reverence. These transactions display Christ as the Son of God both in power and in name. Can you hear, amid all these cries of devils confessing Him, Christ once styled a creature, or God’s condescension in adopting Him once named?
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