Son of God in Quran.

[Sam_777]

Official translation from our Saudi ministry of Islamic affairs (The link is in Arabic & English):

(Quran 39:4): “Had Allah wished to take to Himself a son, He could have chosen whom He pleased out of those whom He doth create: but Glory be to Him! (He is above such things.) He is Allah, the One, the Irresistible.”

Now according to my translation it should have read like this:
“Had Allah wished to take to Himself a son, He could have chosen whom He pleased out of those whom He doth create Glory be to Him! He is Allah, the One, the Irresistible.”

If someone reads that in Arabic he will notice that there shouldn’t be “but” and “(He is above such things.)” in the official translation, which indicates to me that God can have a son if he wants to, that is not impossible, I know our Islamic clerics will tell me go back to “Tafseer”, but honestly why we Muslims say its impassible for God to have Son, if the above verse exactly says that its possible for God to have a son.

 

[Kadaveri]

The ‘but’ has been placed there to express the meaning more accurately to English speakers. I don’t know why I’m having to explain this to you, since apparently you’re a native Arab speaker, but when the Qur’an says ‘sunhanahu’ (which a more accurate translation would be ‘free from any imperfection is him’ rather than ‘glory be to him’) that means it’s denying the previous assertion made, as God having a son is considered to be an imperfection, and God is free from all imperfections.

And there’s the golden rule of interpreting the Qur’an, which is that it cannot be done by looking at one verse in isolation but the whole of the Qur’an, especially when it’s as strange as the one you’ve just put forward. See these verses for example:

And they say: The Beneficent (God) has taken a son.
Verily you utter something most abominable!
Whereby the heavens are almost torn, and the earth is split asunder and the mountains fall in ruins
That men ascribe unto the Beneficent a son,
For it is inconceivable that the Beneficent would have a son.
Not one of all (the beings) in the heavens and the earth comes to the Beneficent but as a servant. (19:88-93)

So please don’t try and argue that the Qur’an says Jesus (pbuh) is the Son of God, it most surely doesn’t.

 

[inJESUS]

but when the Qur’an says ‘sunhanahu’ (which a more accurate translation would be ‘free from any imperfection is him’ rather than ‘glory be to him’).

when we say in Arabic sabbihuhu, it means glorify him or praise him. If subhana comes from the verb sabbaha, it means he is glorified, not free of imperfections. This is why, when we see something beautiful, we say subhanallah.

 

[inJESUS]

Official translation from our Saudi ministry of Islamic affairs (The link is in Arabic & English):

(Quran 39:4): “Had Allah wished to take to Himself a son, He could have chosen whom He pleased out of those whom He doth create: but Glory be to Him! (He is above such things.) He is Allah, the One, the Irresistible.”

Now according to my translation it should have read like this:
“Had Allah wished to take to Himself a son, He could have chosen whom He pleased out of those whom He doth create Glory be to Him! He is Allah, the One, the Irresistible.”

If someone reads that in Arabic he will notice that there shouldn’t be “but” and “(He is above such things.)” in the official translation, which indicates to me that God can have a son if he wants to, that is not impossible, I know our Islamic clerics will tell me go back to “Tafseer”, but honestly why we Muslims say its impassible for God to have Son, if the above verse exactly says that its possible for God to have a son.

yes the aya says if Allah wishes, he could. But to understand why Allah does not wish, we have to read :

how can Allah have a son if he has no WIFE?

The understanding of the title Son of God in the Quran is sexual, and hence for Allah to have a son means Allah should have a wife, that is why, according to the word of Allah, the all-knowing, Jesus cannot be the Son of God if Allah does not have a wife.

Obviously, it has nothing to do with how God revealed the meaning in the Bible.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Not even the Christians here are going to buy this analysis, my friend.

Allah refutes any idea of sonship throughout the Qur’an, multiple times. I mean over and over and over. Exalted is Allah above this blasphemous claim, seriously. Has nothing to do with having a wife, really. That’s just one facet of how the claim of sonship has been made–not a common one today, but nonetheless, one which has been made.

It’s not necessary for you or any readers to look into books of tafsir to explain that ayah. The text is very clear, and simple to an English audience. Perhaps you are not familiar with the linguistic device of using rhetorical questions–and the Qur’an is full of them.

Maybe that’s your problem?

 

[inJESUS]

My problem is that an all-knowing deity says He cannot have a son because he has no wife.

Don’t *you *see a problem with the reasoning of this deity? even a child knows no one can have a son if he not married, isn;t so?

 

[Sister_Amy]

My problem is that an all-knowing deity says He cannot have a son because he has no wife.

Don’t *you *see a problem with the reasoning of this deity? even a child knows no one can have a son if he not married, isn;t so?

That isn’t what Allah said. Please be very careful in quoting Qur’an. “Allah cannot…” is not something you will find.

 

[inJESUS]

The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only a Messenger of God, and His command that He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in God and in His Messengers, and do not say: ‘God is a Trinity.’ Give up this assertion; it would be better for you. For God is indeed (the only) One God. **Far be it from His glory that He should have a son. ** To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and in the earth. And God is sufficient for a guardian.” (Quran 4:171)

Why is it far from his glory dear Amy if Son of God = Word of God, something the Quran itself uses for Jesus? if the author of the Quran knew that Jesus is the Son = Word, why feel scandalized by it, then say Jesus is the Word of Allah? the only answer is far be it from being his physical son since he has no wife because if the author understood the meaning, he wouldn’t have confirmed that Jesus is the Word of God (Kalimatuhu).

 

[inJESUS]

That isn’t what Allah said. Please be very careful in quoting Qur’an. “Allah cannot…” is not something you will find.

its worse, he is asking how can he have a son if he has no wife.

First, what happened to “be and it is”?
Second, who says Allah cannot have a son without a wife?
Third, who said Son has to be physical in the first place?

are you still not able to smell the human reasoning behind these words?

 

[inJESUS]

And when Allah breathed into Mary of his spirit, did he breath Gabriel sister Amy? or did he breath his own spirit?what is this spirit that Allah breathes Amy? and who is the father of Jesus? why has He no biological father? if He is the Son of Mary, then who is His Father Amy?

 

[Kadaveri]

The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only a Messenger of God, and His command that He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in God and in His Messengers, and do not say: ‘God is a Trinity.’ Give up this assertion; it would be better for you. For God is indeed (the only) One God. **Far be it from His glory that He should have a son. ** To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and in the earth. And God is sufficient for a guardian.” (Quran 4:171)

Why is it far from his glory dear Amy if Son of God = Word of God, something the Quran itself uses for Jesus? if the author of the Quran knew that Jesus is the Son = Word, why feel scandalized by it, then say Jesus is the Word of Allah? the only answer is far be it from being his physical son since he has no wife because if the author understood the meaning, he wouldn’t have confirmed that Jesus is the Word of God (Kalimatuhu).

I wish you’d stop pulling this ‘he has no wife’ business out of thin air, nowhere does the Qur’an refute the Christian doctrine of the Divine Sonship by saying God has no wife, and in fact if you read it carefully (and with a better translation) the verse you’ve just quoted shows that the Qur’an can’t possibly mean ‘Son’ in a literal, physical, sense. Why else would the Qur’an refute Jesus being the Son of God by saying God is one ilah? Because only Christians believe that God consists of three personalities/hypostasis, Jesus being one of them in that he’s believed to be the incarnation of God on Earth, thus making his God the Son, and it’s this belief that the Qur’an contradicts by saying God is one ilah.

See? There’s no way the verse can be referring to anything other than the Christian doctrine of the Divine Sonship, it makes no sense otherwise.

 

[Sister_Amy]

inJESUS, you made three posts to reply to just one of mine. I’m getting kind of worried about you, since your posts have gotten a little more… not aggressive, really, but more anxious maybe.

Do you think one or both of us should perhaps take a break from the discussion?

 

[Angelos]

I wish you’d stop pulling this ‘he has no wife’ business out of thin air, nowhere does the Qur’an refute the Christian doctrine of the Divine Sonship by saying God has no wife, and in fact if you read it carefully (and with a better translation) the verse you’ve just quoted shows that the Qur’an can’t possibly mean ‘Son’ in a literal, physical, sense.

This is shallow reasoning! Apparently, the Koran denies the Christian tenet that Jesus is the Son of God because it mistakenly presumes that Christians believe Jesus to be the physical son of God.

Surah 2:116 And they say: Allah hath taken unto Himself a son. Be He glorified! Nay, but whatsoever is in the heavens and the earth is His. All are subservient unto Him.

Surah 19.88 And they say: The Beneficent hath taken unto Himself a son.

Two things catch our eyes in these verses:

1) In the original language of the Koran the word “weled” is deliberately used with regard to Jesus’ sonship, not the word “ibn”. This proves that Allah somehow draws association between Jesus’ sonship and His birth and childhood.

2) The Koran always claims - to slander Christians - that Christians say "Allah has taken unto Himself a son (child). This allegation denounces Christians for making association between Jesus’ miraculous nativity and the title “Son of God” with the wrong assertion that Christians believed in Jesus’ sonship after a certain event at a certain period of time. In order to find out that certain event after which Christians are said to have started to call Jesus “Son of God” we must read Surah 19:

19:35. It befitteth not (the Majesty of) Allah that He should take unto Himself a son.**** Glory be to Him! When He decreeth a thing, He saith unto it only: Be! and it is.

The reason that ironically forces the writer of this Surah to emphasize Jesus’ creation by Allah is his faulty inference that Jesus’ birth without a father made Christians declare Him as the Son of God. The Koran is unaware of the Christian belief that Jesus became human and that His miraculous conception did not make Him the Son of God. According to the NT, Jesus IS the Son of God even prior to incarnation.

More, the Koran always uses a verb that denotes an action whenever it talks of Jesus’ sonship. This verb (take or begin possess) can get only two meanings depending on the context: a) Taking a son through adoption (as seen in the stories of Joseph and Moses)** b)** Fathering a son through sexual intercourse. With regard to Jesus, the Koran denies the possibility of the second option through the ignored possibility of the first:

Surah 43:4. If Allah had willed to take a son, He could have chosen what He would of that which He hath created. Be He Glorified! He is Allah, the One, the Absolute.

This verse is surprisingly meant to address the Christian claim that Jesus is the Son of God. It implies that Christians do not interpret Jesus’ sonship as adoption (which would be slightly better) but in a physical sense requiring sexual intercourse.

Why else would the Qur’an refute Jesus being the Son of God by saying God is one ilah? Because only Christians believe that God consists of three personalities/hypostasis, Jesus being one of them in that he’s believed to be the incarnation of God on Earth, thus making his God the Son, and it’s this belief that the Qur’an contradicts by saying God is one ilah.

See? There’s no way the verse can be referring to anything other than the Christian doctrine of the Divine Sonship, it makes no sense otherwise.

The Islamic Scripture clearly draws parallelism between pagans and Christians on the basis of their Trinitarian faith and the doctrine of Jesus’ sonship although Christian tenet has nothing to do with pagan understanding of the term Son of God! Since the Koran propogates that Christians believe in Jesus’ physical sonship, it reformulates the original Christian Trinity after adapting it to pagan deities forming a family. Thus, Mary is replaced with the Holy Spirit so that Christians can be rebuked for being similar to pagans in faith. The twisted form of the Christian Trinity in the Islamic scripture suffices to prove that Islam fails to understand what the term “Son of God” means for Christians.

Finally, the funny argument that “Allah cannot have a son because He has no wife” (Surah 6:101) addresses Christians too, for it is the Koran itself that equates Christians with pagans for “ascribing to Allah sons and daughters”.

 

[Reuben_J]

And there’s the golden rule of interpreting the Qur’an, which is that it cannot be done by looking at one verse in isolation but the whole of the Qur’an, …

If the Quranic verses are not written in any particular order, how could one see the Quran as whole? How do you see the context in the Quran? There can be no context there and any verse should be able to stand on its own which can set many possible interpretations depending on the interpretators’ thought.

 

[inJESUS]

inJESUS, you made three posts to reply to just one of mine. I’m getting kind of worried about you, since your posts have gotten a little more… not aggressive, really, but more anxious maybe.

Do you think one or both of us should perhaps take a break from the discussion?

none should leave…it’s a bad habit i have to post when i remember something instead of editing the previous reply am fine thank you.

 

[inJESUS]

Why else would the Qur’an refute Jesus being the Son of God by saying God is one ilah

? because the author thought that if we say Jesus is divine, we worship 2 gods…thats why He said Allah is one. Didn’t the author ask Jesus if he told his followers to take Himself and Mary as other gods? didn’t the author say Allah is one Allah, not 3 gods? there is not one single refutation that shows an understanding of Christianity…none.

Because only Christians believe that God consists of three personalities/hypostasis, Jesus being one of them in that he’s believed to be the incarnation of God on Earth, thus making his God the Son, and it’s this belief that the Qur’an contradicts by saying God is one ilah

 

[Lapell]

Not even the Christians here are going to buy this analysis, my friend.

Allah refutes any idea of sonship throughout the Qur’an, multiple times. I mean over and over and over. Exalted is Allah above this blasphemous claim, seriously. Has nothing to do with having a wife, really. That’s just one facet of how the claim of sonship has been made–not a common one today, but nonetheless, one which has been made.

It’s not necessary for you or any readers to look into books of tafsir to explain that ayah. The text is very clear, and simple to an English audience. Perhaps you are not familiar with the linguistic device of using rhetorical questions–and the Qur’an is full of them.

Maybe that’s your problem?

So, if I understand you well, Jesus’ claim to be the Son of God is a blasphemy to Muslims, absolutely.
Oh! I understand that many of you Muslims do believe that Jesus never Himself made the claim, even once you have read John 10, 36 where it’s very plain that he did and didn’t change this claim.
Would God blaspheme against Himself?
Let’s be candid here: until Jesus came into the world the possibility that God might have a Son wasn’t considered at all in Jewish circles.
Now with this possibility the Jews and the Muslims certainly do have a problem! That’s the reality!
And if Jesus is not the Son of God, then he is an imposter and we Christians are in the wrong, and the Jews and the Muslims are right!
If he is not the Son of God like the Catholic Church has always taught from her beginning as an absolute truth, then she is in the wrong.
And you claim that Jesus is not the Son of God or God the Son!
So telling the truth, it’s either the Catholic Church (and the rest of the Christian Churches) or the Jews and the Muslims. That’s one thing which we’ll never agree on unless there is a change of mind that seems to be quite unlikely. On other things we can agree, though. As for this one matter, we will see it when the Last Judgment comes, or a bit right before that. Until then we can only state and state again our respective positions, so I propose that we turn to other topics and leave this one.
We can disagree on this and still be good friends, can’t we?

 

[inJESUS]

So, if I understand you well, Jesus’ claim to be the Son of God is a blasphemy to Muslims, absolutely.

yes for the wrong reasons.

Oh! I understand that many of you Muslims do believe that Jesus never Himself made the claim, even once you have read John 10, 36 where it’s very plain that he did and didn’t change this claim.
Would God blaspheme against Himself?

 

[Lapell]

inJESUS, you made three posts to reply to just one of mine. I’m getting kind of worried about you, since your posts have gotten a little more… not aggressive, really, but more anxious maybe.

Do you think one or both of us should perhaps take a break from the discussion?

What is it that you don’t like in inJesus’s replies? You tell him maybe he has a problem, in a way that seems to make his reasoning not even plausible when it seems to me that seen from a certain angle it would be quite logical!
Moreover it sometimes seems as though you don’t understand what he is trying to tell you. You might not like his angle, but dismissing it in a way that seems to mean: “Bah! Humbug!” or “hogwash” seems to me disrespectful… especially with someone as decent as inJesus! (from the things I have read from him up to now)

 

[Sister_Amy]

The Qur’an is quite clear that there is no “son of God.”