Son of God, Son of Man. Modes of Presence?

[Linusthe2nd]

I may not understand. Please explain your remark which I am responding to “All I am excluding is the glorified human nature of Christ.”

O.K. Before the birth of Christ, God ( i.e. the Trinity ) created the world and was since occupied causing things to remain in existence and guiding all things to their proper ends, himself. But during that span of time Christ, the man, did not exist, he could not have been taking part in this project.

Then in the fullness of time the Second Person of the Trinity enters the world in the Incarnation. From that point the Second Person of the Trinity has two modes of existence. First as the Person of Jesus Christ, Son of God and Son of Man. Secondly, as part of the Trinity which is God.

The question is, does God continue to act in the universe now, since the coming of Christ, as he did before the coming of Christ? That is, does he continue to act in the world without the participation of the physical Christ? My contintion is that in the continued Providence of God in maintaining and ordering the universe since the coming of Christ, Jesus Christ, the man, whether glorified or not, does not participate. Rather God continues to operate strictly as the Trinity, which includes the Second Person but does not include Christ the man, glorified or not.

And my support of this contention is the fact that the Church mentions the physical Christ only as he walked the earth before his death, and in the Eucharist, and during the 40 days before his Ascension, and now at the right hand of the Father. This does not mean that Christ could not be participating in the project of Providence in the physical, glorified mode of his existence, since he can be present invisibly as he does in the Eucharist. But since the Church only mentions Christ’s physical Presence as I cited above, it does not seem likely that he should choose to do so.

Linus2nd .

 

[Vico]

O.K. Before the birth of Christ, God ( i.e. the Trinity ) created the world and was since occupied causing things to remain in existence and guiding all things to their proper ends, himself. But during that span of time Christ, the man, did not exist, he could not have been taking part in this project.

Then in the fullness of time the Second Person of the Trinity enters the world in the Incarnation. From that point the Second Person of the Trinity has two modes of existence. First as the Person of Jesus Christ, Son of God and Son of Man. Secondly, as part of the Trinity which is God.

The question is, does God continue to act in the universe now, since the coming of Christ, as he did before the coming of Christ? That is, does he continue to act in the world without the participation of the physical Christ? My contintion is that in the continued Providence of God in maintaining and ordering the universe since the coming of Christ, Jesus Christ, the man, whether glorified or not, does not participate. Rather God continues to operate strictly as the Trinity, which includes the Second Person but does not include Christ the man, glorified or not.

And my support of this contention is the fact that the Church mentions the physical Christ only as he walked the earth before his death, and in the Eucharist, and during the 40 days before his Ascension, and now at the right hand of the Father. This does not mean that Christ could not be participating in the project of Providence in the physical, glorified mode of his existence, since he can be present invisibly as he does in the Eucharist. But since the Church only mentions Christ’s physical Presence as I cited above, it does not seem likely that he should choose to do so.

Linus2nd .

There is only one divine will in the Most Holy Trinity and the human will of Christ is conformed. There is eternal participation through the human nature of the risen Christ.

Sixth Ecumenical Council**Denzinger 291 **And so we proclaim two natural wills in Him, and two natural operations indivisibly, inconvertibly, inseparably, unfusedly according to the doctrine of the holy Father, and two natural wills not contrary, God forbid, according as impious heretics have asserted, but the human will following and not resisting or hesitating, but rather even submitting to His divine and omnipotent will. For, it is necessary that the will of the flesh act, but that it be subject to the divine will according to the most wise Athanasius. * For, as His flesh is called and is the flesh of the Word of God, soalso the natural will of His flesh is called and is the proper will of the Word of God as He Himself says: "Because I came down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of my Father who sent me) , cf.John 6:38], calling the will of the flesh His own. For the body became His own. For as His most holy and immaculate animated flesh deified has not been destroyed but in its own status and plan remained, so also His human will deified has not been destroyed, but on the contrary it has been saved according to the theologian Gregory who says: * “For to wish of that one an entire deification, which is understood in the Savior, is not contrary to God.”

 

[Linusthe2nd]

There is only one divine will in the Most Holy Trinity and the human will of Christ is conformed. There is eternal participation through the human nature of the risen Christ.

Sixth Ecumenical Council**Denzinger 291 **And so we proclaim two natural wills in Him, and two natural operations indivisibly, inconvertibly, inseparably, unfusedly according to the doctrine of the holy Father, and two natural wills not contrary, God forbid, according as impious heretics have asserted, but the human will following and not resisting or hesitating, but rather even submitting to His divine and omnipotent will. For, it is necessary that the will of the flesh act, but that it be subject to the divine will according to the most wise Athanasius. * For, as His flesh is called and is the flesh of the Word of God, soalso the natural will of His flesh is called and is the proper will of the Word of God as He Himself says: "Because I came down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of my Father who sent me) , cf.John 6:38], calling the will of the flesh His own. For the body became His own. For as His most holy and immaculate animated flesh deified has not been destroyed but in its own status and plan remained, so also His human will deified has not been destroyed, but on the contrary it has been saved according to the theologian Gregory who says: * “For to wish of that one an entire deification, which is understood in the Savior, is not contrary to God.”

Of course but it does not follow from that that the Incarnate Christ is involved in the day to day governing of the universe. You seem to have missed my point again.

Linus2nd

 

[simpleas]

O.K. Before the birth of Christ, God ( i.e. the Trinity ) created the world and was since occupied causing things to remain in existence and guiding all things to their proper ends, himself. But during that span of time Christ, the man, did not exist, he could not have been taking part in this project.

Then in the fullness of time the Second Person of the Trinity enters the world in the Incarnation. From that point the Second Person of the Trinity has two modes of existence. First as the Person of Jesus Christ, Son of God and Son of Man. Secondly, as part of the Trinity which is God.

The question is, does God continue to act in the universe now, since the coming of Christ, as he did before the coming of Christ? That is, does he continue to act in the world without the participation of the physical Christ? My contintion is that in the continued Providence of God in maintaining and ordering the universe since the coming of Christ, Jesus Christ, the man, whether glorified or not, does not participate. Rather God continues to operate strictly as the Trinity, which includes the Second Person but does not include Christ the man, glorified or not.

And my support of this contention is the fact that the Church mentions the physical Christ only as he walked the earth before his death, and in the Eucharist, and during the 40 days before his Ascension, and now at the right hand of the Father. This does not mean that Christ could not be participating in the project of Providence in the physical, glorified mode of his existence, since he can be present invisibly as he does in the Eucharist. But since the Church only mentions Christ’s physical Presence as I cited above, it does not seem likely that he should choose to do so.

Linus2nd .

Wow, I’m scratching my head trying to understand what you are asking!

The question is, does God continue to act in the universe now, since the coming of Christ, as he did before the coming of Christ? That is, does he continue to act in the world without the participation of the physical Christ? My contintion is that in the continued Providence of God in maintaining and ordering the universe since the coming of Christ, Jesus Christ, the man, whether glorified or not, does not participate. Rather God continues to operate strictly as the Trinity, which includes the Second Person but does not include Christ the man, glorified or not

I would say yes God continues to act in the universe because without Gods participation it would cease to exist. Not sure what you mean by actiing in the world without the physical Christ. Christ was the beginning, and will be the end, is what I have read. God the father, God the son and God the holy spirit (all one) created the universe and maintain it.
The divine human Jesus Christ ascended into heaven, and he gave us the holy spirit. We all have Christ within us.

This is probably no where near what you are asking, but you make me think more about this mystery, so its a good thing.

 

[Vico]

Of course but it does not follow from that that the Incarnate Christ is involved in the day to day governing of the universe. You seem to have missed my point again.

Linus2nd

How could it not follow? The human rational soul of Christ and resurrected physical body is united (hypostatic union) with the divine nature now and the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit interpenetrate each other (circuminsession).

 

[Linusthe2nd]

How could it not follow? The human rational soul of Christ and resurrected physical body is united (hypostatic union) with the divine nature now and the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit interpenetrate each other (circuminsession).

My friend, I have a degree in Thomistic philosophy and I went to 17 years of Catholic schooling, I have been a Catholic for 76 years. I know all about the Incarnation and what it means.

Do you know what creation is? Do you know what Divine Premotion is? Do you know what Divine Providence is? Where was Christ, the man, when the world was created, where was he when God was causing the universe to exist and to move toward its proper end. Until Christ was born, he could not be involved in the day to day causality and directing of the universe to its proper end.

The question is, has he been taking part in the day to day operations of the Godhead in the ordering of the universe, since his birth? I see no evidence for that because the Church only mentions Christ’s physical presence during his earthly life, during the 40 days after his resurrection, in the Eucharist and at the right hand of the Father now. I realize fullly that the Second Person of the Trinity, along with the Father and the Holy Spirit are runing the universe. But is Christ involved now? Do you see what I mean?

Linus2nd

 

[Linusthe2nd]

Wow, I’m scratching my head trying to understand what you are asking!

The question is, does God continue to act in the universe now, since the coming of Christ, as he did before the coming of Christ? That is, does he continue to act in the world without the participation of the physical Christ? My contintion is that in the continued Providence of God in maintaining and ordering the universe since the coming of Christ, Jesus Christ, the man, whether glorified or not, does not participate. Rather God continues to operate strictly as the Trinity, which includes the Second Person but does not include Christ the man, glorified or not

I would say yes God continues to act in the universe because without Gods participation it would cease to exist. Not sure what you mean by actiing in the world without the physical Christ. Christ was the beginning, and will be the end, is what I have read. God the father, God the son and God the holy spirit (all one) created the universe and maintain it.
The divine human Jesus Christ ascended into heaven, and he gave us the holy spirit. We all have Christ within us.

This is probably no where near what you are asking, but you make me think more about this mystery, so its a good thing.

See post 26.

Linus2nd

 

[Vico]

…
The question is, has he been taking part in the day to day operations of the Godhead in the ordering of the universe, since his birth? I see no evidence for that because the Church only mentions Christ’s physical presence during his earthly life, during the 40 days after his resurrection, in the Eucharist and at the right hand of the Father now…

I am trying to show you evidence of that in this thread.

Surely from the First Vatican Council we know that:God, in His providence watches over and governs all the things that He made, reaching from end to end with might and disposing all things with gentleness.
We also know what Christ said in Matthew 28:**18-20:**And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.
In the Catechism of the Catholic Church we read that: 777 The word “Church” means “convocation.” It designates the assembly of those whom God’s Word “convokes,” i.e., gathers together to form the People of God, and who themselves, nourished with the Body of Christ, become the Body of Christ.

778 The Church is both the means and the goal of God’s plan: prefigured in creation, prepared for in the Old Covenant, founded by the words and actions of Jesus Christ, fulfilled by his redeeming cross and his Resurrection, the Church has been manifested as the mystery of salvation by the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. She will be perfected in the glory of heaven as the assembly of all the redeemed of the earth (cf. *Rev *14:4).

779 The Church is both visible and spiritual, a hierarchical society and the Mystical Body of Christ. She is one, yet formed of two components, human and divine. That is her mystery, which only faith can accept.
You note that* surpassing *(8) mode of presence from the teaching of the Church given in Mysterium Fidei Nos. 35 to 39:

1. 
   *]his Church when She prays
   *]the Church performing works of mercy
   *]the Church on pilgrimage to eternal life
   *]the Church as She preaches the word of God
   *]his Church as She “rules and governs”
   *]the action of the priest offering “the Sacrifice of the Mass”
   *]the sacraments
   *]the eucharistic elements, a presence “that surpasses all others”
   
   So I would appreciate your answer to my question which was:
   How does it not follow “that the Incarnate Christ is involved in the day to day governing of the universe”]?​

 

[Linusthe2nd]

I am trying to show you evidence of that in this thread.

Surely from the First Vatican Council we know that:God, in His providence watches over and governs all the things that He made, reaching from end to end with might and disposing all things with gentleness.

This paragraph refers to the governing of creatures under God’s governance from the creation of the world to the present day. Christ is not mentioned.

We also know what Christ said in Matthew 28:**18-20:**And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.

In the Catechism of the Catholic Church we read that: 777 The word “Church” means “convocation.” It designates the assembly of those whom God’s Word “convokes,” i.e., gathers together to form the People of God, and who themselves, nourished with the Body of Christ, become the Body of Christ.

778 The Church is both the means and the goal of God’s plan: prefigured in creation, prepared for in the Old Covenant, founded by the words and actions of Jesus Christ, fulfilled by his redeeming cross and his Resurrection, the Church has been manifested as the mystery of salvation by the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. She will be perfected in the glory of heaven as the assembly of all the redeemed of the earth (cf. *Rev *14:4).

779 The Church is both visible and spiritual, a hierarchical society and the Mystical Body of Christ. She is one, yet formed of two components, human and divine. That is her mystery, which only faith can accept.
You note that* surpassing *(8) mode of presence from the teaching of the Church given in Mysterium Fidei Nos. 35 to 39:

1. 
   *]his Church when She prays
   *]the Church performing works of mercy
   *]the Church on pilgrimage to eternal life
   *]the Church as She preaches the word of God
   *]his Church as She “rules and governs”
   *]the action of the priest offering “the Sacrifice of the Mass”
   *]the sacraments
   *]the eucharistic elements, a presence “that surpasses all others”

1. 
   

   So I would appreciate your answer to my question which was:

   How does it not follow “that the Incarnate Christ is involved in the day to day governing of the universe”]?​

   These paragraphs refer to the establishment of the Church and its governance by Christ from that moment to now.But notice two things. This does not include the governance of the physical world but only of the Church. Secondly Christ was involved in the Governance of the Church, directly, only while he was present on the earth. After his resurrection this spiritual governance has been done through the action of the Holy Spirit. But of course Christ is always present, physically, in the Eucharist. So your argument does not hold.
   
   Please note that I am just speculating, I am not doubting any doctrine. This thought just popped into my head about a week ago and it made me wonder. As far as God is concerned I don’t think he minds either way as long as we attribute all types of governance to the Trinity in some way.
   
   Linus2nd
   
   Linus2nd

 

[Vico]

This paragraph refers to the governing of creatures under God’s governance from the creation of the world to the present day. Christ is not mentioned.

These paragraphs refer to the establishment of the Church and its governance by Christ from that moment to now.But notice two things. This does not include the governance of the physical world but only of the Church. Secondly Christ was involved in the Governance of the Church, directly, only while he was present on the earth. After his resurrection this spiritual governance has been done through the action of the Holy Spirit. But of course Christ is always present, physically, in the Eucharist. So your argument does not hold.

Please note that I am just speculating, I am not doubting any doctrine. This thought just popped into my head about a week ago and it made me wonder. As far as God is concerned I don’t think he minds either way as long as we attribute all types of governance to the Trinity in some way.

Linus2nd

Linus2nd

I think it is not acceptable to say that the Son can be act independently from the risen Christ.

The incarnate Christ means the human which includes a rational human soul. Since the Resurrection of the Lord his body and soul are united in the Most Holy Trinity.

Govern is to guide. The risen Christ is God, therefore He “governs all the things that He made, reaching from end to end with might and disposing all things with gentleness”.

John 14:1-2 You believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father’s house there are many mansions.

John 14:13-14 Because I go to the Father: and whatsoever you shall ask the Father in my name, that will I do: that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you shall ask me any thing in my name, that I will do.

 

[simpleas]

My friend, I have a degree in Thomistic philosophy and I went to 17 years of Catholic schooling, I have been a Catholic for 76 years. I know all about the Incarnation and what it means.

Do you know what creation is? Do you know what Divine Premotion is? Do you know what Divine Providence is? Where was Christ, the man, when the world was created, where was he when God was causing the universe to exist and to move toward its proper end. Until Christ was born, he could not be involved in the day to day causality and directing of the universe to its proper end.

The question is, has he been taking part in the day to day operations of the Godhead in the ordering of the universe, since his birth? I see no evidence for that because the Church only mentions Christ’s physical presence during his earthly life, during the 40 days after his resurrection, in the Eucharist and at the right hand of the Father now. I realize fullly that the Second Person of the Trinity, along with the Father and the Holy Spirit are runing the universe. But is Christ involved now? Do you see what I mean?
Linus2nd

The second person of the Trinity is Christ, so why are you asking is Christ involved now?

You obviously know more than I as you mentioned you have a degree, so please be gentle

 

[simpleas]

I think it is not acceptable to say that the Son can be act independently from the risen Christ.

The incarnate Christ means the human which includes a rational human soul. Since the Resurrection of the Lord his body and soul are united in the Most Holy Trinity.
Govern is to guide. The risen Christ is God, therefore He “governs all the things that He made, reaching from end to end with might and disposing all things with gentleness”.

John 14:1-2 You believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father’s house there are many mansions.

John 14:13-14 Because I go to the Father: and whatsoever you shall ask the Father in my name, that will I do: that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you shall ask me any thing in my name, that I will do.

This is how I have understood it.

 

[tm21]

Check out the Tertia Pars of ST, Q. 3, Art. 4, Reply Obj. 2:
“Now the whole Divine Nature is said to be incarnate; not that It is incarnate in all the persons, but inasmuch as nothing is wanting to the perfection of the Divine Nature of the Person Incarnate…”
I think that is key in resolving your question…that nothing is wanting in the perfection of the Divine Nature of the resurrected Christ. To restrict Him from fully participating in the existence of all things would be to deny his full divine nature. Also, Christ is one Person, two natures. You can not parse him into a resurrected Christ and the 2nd person of the Trinity…that’s similar to what Nestorius did. Thanks for the good conversation.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

The second person of the Trinity is Christ, so why are you asking is Christ involved now?

You obviously know more than I as you mentioned you have a degree, so please be gentle

But before the birth of Christ, there was an eternity when the Trinity existed but Christ did not. Now at the birth of Christ, the Second Person of the Trinity took on a human nature. The question was, now that Christ has come, does the Second Person still partake in the day to day running of the universe as formerly, without Christ, or does he do so as Christ, the physical Person? So is the physical Person of Christ now governing the universe with the Father and the Holy Spirit, in which case he would be physically in every substance, because Aquinas said that wherever the power of God reaches, there he is in his very substance and essence.

Linus2nd

 

[Linusthe2nd]

Check out the Tertia Pars of ST, Q. 3, Art. 4, Reply Obj. 2:
“Now the whole Divine Nature is said to be incarnate; not that It is incarnate in all the persons, but inasmuch as nothing is wanting to the perfection of the Divine Nature of the Person Incarnate…”
I think that is key in resolving your question…that nothing is wanting in the perfection of the Divine Nature of the resurrected Christ. To restrict Him from fully participating in the existence of all things would be to deny his full divine nature. Also, Christ is one Person, two natures. You can not parse him into a resurrected Christ and the 2nd person of the Trinity…that’s similar to what Nestorius did. Thanks for the good conversation.

No, the Trinity can be in Christ and not in him at the same time. It was certainly true for an eternity before Christ was born that the Trinity acted without Christ. Now if Christ is involved in the day to day governing of the universe he would have to be physically present in every substance, because Aquinas says that wherever the power of God reaches there he is in his substance and essence.

Linus2nd

 

[Vico]

No, the Trinity can be in Christ and not in him at the same time. It was certainly true for an eternity before Christ was born that the Trinity acted without Christ. Now if Christ is involved in the day to day governing of the universe he would have to be physically present in every substance, because Aquinas says that wherever the power of God reaches there he is in his substance and essence.

Linus2nd

I cannot accept a split in good faith. We know that the resurrected Christ is “broken but not divided”, that is, He has a limitless person, which includes the physical.

Denzinger 2194 - Sources of Catholic Dogma

 The Kingship of Christ *     [From the Encyclical, "Quas primas," December 11, 1925]

  2194 Moreover, on what foundation this dignity and power of our Lord  rests, Cyril of Alexandria aptly observes: "He obtained his dominion  over all creatures, to speak in a word, not by having wrested it by  force or brought it in from some other source, but by His own essence  and nature"; * naturally, His kingdom depends on that wonderful union  which is called hypostatic. Therefore, it follows not only that Christ  is to be adored as God by angels and men, but also that angels and men  obey and are subject to His power as man, namely, that Christ obtains  His power over all creatures solely in the name of the hypostatic union.  ---But yet what could be more pleasing to us and more pleasant to  contemplate than that Christ commands us not only by right of birth but  also by an acquired right, that is, of redemption? Would that all  forgetful men would recall what price they have cost our Savior, for,  "not with corruptible things as with gold or silver were you redeemed  but by the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb unspotted and  undefiled"  1 Pet. 1:18, 19]. Now we are not our own, since Christ has  bought us "with a great price" [1 Cor. 5:20]; our very bodies "are  members of Christ" [1 Cor. 6:15 ].

From the Holy See (OFFICE FOR THE LITURGICAL CELEBRATIONS OF THE SUPREME PONTIFF):Christ himself, his living, risen and glorified body, is the new temple where God dwells and where his universal worship takes place “in spirit and truth” (cf. J. Ratzinger, Introduzione allo spirito della liturgia, San Paolo, Cinisello Balsamo 2001, pp. 39-40). As Saint Paul writes: “For in Him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, and you have come to fullness of life in him” (*Colossians *2:9-10). By participation, on the strength of Baptism, the body of the Christian also becomes temple of God (1 *Corinthians *3:16-17; 6:19; *Ephesians *2:22). Using a phrase very dear to Saint Augustine, Christus totus, the whole Christ is the true place of Christian worship, that is, Christ in as much as Head and Christians in as much as members of his Mystical Body.

vatican.va/news_services/liturgy/details/ns_lit_doc_20120627_dove-celebrare_en.html

 

[PJM]

=Linusthe2nd;12930016]We know that each Person of the Trinity created the universe and guided it. We all know that the Trinity dwells in us and in all things. But how is this to be understood since the coming of Christ?

Christ was the Man-God, he had and still has a physical body. It is his body we receive in Communion and which we adore in the Eucharist, which sits at the right hand of the Father at this very moment.

So when we say God is now present in all things, do we mean the Trinity, as it was before the Coming of Christ? Are we talking about the spiritual Presence of the Second Person strictly? Or are we now to understand that it is Jesus the Man-God, the physical Christ, who is Present in all things. This latter idea seems incorrect to me. I think it is the Second Person ( not Jesus Christ ) who is present in all things, along with the other two Persons.

I think Jesus’ mode of Presence is limited to the Eucharist and at the right hand of the Father. He can of course appear on earth to this person or that and has done so - and this must be understood as a physical Presence.

But I think The Second Person is also Present in the world and in the bosom of the Father as He has always been, as God, a Pure Spirit. And at the same time, He is Present as the Second Person in Jesus Christ.

What do you think? Should get lots of discussion on this.

Linus2ndj

Profound question my friend:

Jesus from the time of His Incarnation; has had, and does have two complete and perfect natures.

That of God being a Spiritual Nature John 4: 23-24 and his now Resurrected Immortal body Matthew 28:6

“God” is not present in all things in an identical sense of "being present’.

God is the Creator of all things; and is the cause of all existence. God is also the author of life and death of all things. Which does not mean that God is literally present in everything.

And you are correct in understanding that the “Real Presence” is truly Jesus Christ re-presented [made preset again and again], not merely represented.

God Bless you,

Patrick

 

[tm21]

No, the Trinity can be in Christ and not in him at the same time. It was certainly true for an eternity before Christ was born that the Trinity acted without Christ. Now if Christ is involved in the day to day governing of the universe he would have to be physically present in every substance, because Aquinas says that wherever the power of God reaches there he is in his substance and essence.

Linus2nd

How about this: please show me where Aquinas (or any of the Church Fathers for that matter) supports your position…that the 2nd person of the Trinity is now acting in certain ways that Jesus Christ cannot. It seams to me that you are radically separating the Word from the person of Jesus Christ. Your quotation of Aquinas actually does not support your position, it merely states a fact about the nature of God. Your position (if I understand correctly) is that the Word can work separately from Jesus Christ)…please show me a quotation that directly supports that position. Thanks.

 

[simpleas]

But before the birth of Christ, there was an eternity when the Trinity existed but Christ did not. Now at the birth of Christ, the Second Person of the Trinity took on a human nature. The question was, now that Christ has come, does the Second Person still partake in the day to day running of the universe as formerly, without Christ, or does he do so as Christ, the physical Person? So is the physical Person of Christ now governing the universe with the Father and the Holy Spirit, in which case he would be physically in every substance, because Aquinas said that wherever the power of God reaches, there he is in his very substance and essence.

Linus2nd

Christ has always existed. The person Jesus Christ was born as a human, but it is the second person of the trinity who is the creator with the father and the spirit. I don’t know how the physical divine Jesus who ascended into heaven partakes in the continuation of the world, but it was said when he returns he will be like he was when he went. God can do anything, be anywhere, at anytime.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

I cannot accept a split in good faith. We know that the resurrected Christ is “broken but not divided”, that is, He has a limitless person, which includes the physical.

Denzinger 2194 - Sources of Catholic Dogma

 The Kingship of Christ *     [From the Encyclical, "Quas primas," December 11, 1925]

  2194 Moreover, on what foundation this dignity and power of our Lord  rests, Cyril of Alexandria aptly observes: "He obtained his dominion  over all creatures, to speak in a word, not by having wrested it by  force or brought it in from some other source, but by His own essence  and nature"; * naturally, His kingdom depends on that wonderful union  which is called hypostatic. Therefore, it follows not only that Christ  is to be adored as God by angels and men, but also that angels and men  obey and are subject to His power as man, namely, that Christ obtains  His power over all creatures solely in the name of the hypostatic union.  ---But yet what could be more pleasing to us and more pleasant to  contemplate than that Christ commands us not only by right of birth but  also by an acquired right, that is, of redemption? Would that all  forgetful men would recall what price they have cost our Savior, for,  "not with corruptible things as with gold or silver were you redeemed  but by the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb unspotted and  undefiled"  1 Pet. 1:18, 19]. Now we are not our own, since Christ has  bought us "with a great price" [1 Cor. 5:20]; our very bodies "are  members of Christ" [1 Cor. 6:15 ].

From the Holy See (OFFICE FOR THE LITURGICAL CELEBRATIONS OF THE SUPREME PONTIFF):Christ himself, his living, risen and glorified body, is the new temple where God dwells and where his universal worship takes place “in spirit and truth” (cf. J. Ratzinger, Introduzione allo spirito della liturgia, San Paolo, Cinisello Balsamo 2001, pp. 39-40). As Saint Paul writes: “For in Him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, and you have come to fullness of life in him” (*Colossians *2:9-10). By participation, on the strength of Baptism, the body of the Christian also becomes temple of God (1 *Corinthians *3:16-17; 6:19; *Ephesians *2:22). Using a phrase very dear to Saint Augustine, Christus totus, the whole Christ is the true place of Christian worship, that is, Christ in as much as Head and Christians in as much as members of his Mystical Body.

vatican.va/news_services/liturgy/details/ns_lit_doc_20120627_dove-celebrare_en.html

That does not address the issue.

Linus2nd