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Daniel_Marsh
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How would you explain that the Son of God proceeds from the Father and that the Holy Spirit proceeds from God the Father and from The Son? I think the technical term is eternal generation.
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awalt
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From the CCC:
245 The apostolic faith concerning the Spirit was confessed by the second ecumenical council at Constantinople (381): “We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and giver of life, who proceeds from the Father.” 71 By this confession, the Church recognizes the Father as “the source and origin of the whole divinity”. 72 But the eternal origin of the Spirit is not unconnected with the Son’s origin: “The Holy Spirit, the third person of the Trinity, is God, one and equal with the Father and the Son, of the same substance and also of the same nature. . . Yet he is not called the Spirit of the Father alone,. . . but the Spirit of both the Father and the Son.” 73 The Creed of the Church from the Council of Constantinople confesses: “With the Father and the Son, he is worshipped and glorified.” 74
246 The Latin tradition of the Creed confesses that the Spirit "proceeds from the Father and the Son (filioque)". The Council of Florence in 1438 explains: “The Holy Spirit is eternally from Father and Son; He has his nature and subsistence at once (simul) from the Father and the Son. He proceeds eternally from both as from one principle and through one spiration… And, since the Father has through generation given to the only-begotten Son everything that belongs to the Father, except being Father, the Son has also eternally from the Father, from whom he is eternally born, that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son.” 75
247 The affirmation of the filioque does not appear in the Creed confessed in 381 at Constantinople. But Pope St. Leo I, following an ancient Latin and Alexandrian tradition, had already confessed it dogmatically in 447, 76 even before Rome, in 451 at the Council of Chalcedon, came to recognize and receive the Symbol of 381. The use of this formula in the Creed was gradually admitted into the Latin liturgy (between the eighth and eleventh centuries). The introduction of the filioque into the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed by the Latin liturgy constitutes moreover, even today, a point of disagreement with the Orthodox Churches.
248 At the outset the Eastern tradition expresses the Father’s character as first origin of the Spirit. By confessing the Spirit as he “who proceeds from the Father”, it affirms that he comes from the Father through the Son. 77 The Western tradition expresses first the consubstantial communion between Father and Son, by saying that the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son (filioque). It says this, “legitimately and with good reason”, 78 for the eternal order of the divine persons in their consubstantial communion implies that the Father, as “the principle without principle”, 79 is the first origin of the Spirit, but also that as Father of the only Son, he is, with the Son, the single principle from which the Holy Spirit proceeds. 80 This legitimate complementarity, provided it does not become rigid, does not affect the identity of faith in the reality of the same mystery confessed.
http://www.kofc.org/images/1px_transparent.gif
245 The apostolic faith concerning the Spirit was confessed by the second ecumenical council at Constantinople (381): “We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and giver of life, who proceeds from the Father.” 71 By this confession, the Church recognizes the Father as “the source and origin of the whole divinity”. 72 But the eternal origin of the Spirit is not unconnected with the Son’s origin: “The Holy Spirit, the third person of the Trinity, is God, one and equal with the Father and the Son, of the same substance and also of the same nature. . . Yet he is not called the Spirit of the Father alone,. . . but the Spirit of both the Father and the Son.” 73 The Creed of the Church from the Council of Constantinople confesses: “With the Father and the Son, he is worshipped and glorified.” 74
246 The Latin tradition of the Creed confesses that the Spirit "proceeds from the Father and the Son (filioque)". The Council of Florence in 1438 explains: “The Holy Spirit is eternally from Father and Son; He has his nature and subsistence at once (simul) from the Father and the Son. He proceeds eternally from both as from one principle and through one spiration… And, since the Father has through generation given to the only-begotten Son everything that belongs to the Father, except being Father, the Son has also eternally from the Father, from whom he is eternally born, that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son.” 75
247 The affirmation of the filioque does not appear in the Creed confessed in 381 at Constantinople. But Pope St. Leo I, following an ancient Latin and Alexandrian tradition, had already confessed it dogmatically in 447, 76 even before Rome, in 451 at the Council of Chalcedon, came to recognize and receive the Symbol of 381. The use of this formula in the Creed was gradually admitted into the Latin liturgy (between the eighth and eleventh centuries). The introduction of the filioque into the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed by the Latin liturgy constitutes moreover, even today, a point of disagreement with the Orthodox Churches.
248 At the outset the Eastern tradition expresses the Father’s character as first origin of the Spirit. By confessing the Spirit as he “who proceeds from the Father”, it affirms that he comes from the Father through the Son. 77 The Western tradition expresses first the consubstantial communion between Father and Son, by saying that the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son (filioque). It says this, “legitimately and with good reason”, 78 for the eternal order of the divine persons in their consubstantial communion implies that the Father, as “the principle without principle”, 79 is the first origin of the Spirit, but also that as Father of the only Son, he is, with the Son, the single principle from which the Holy Spirit proceeds. 80 This legitimate complementarity, provided it does not become rigid, does not affect the identity of faith in the reality of the same mystery confessed.
http://www.kofc.org/images/1px_transparent.gif
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Ron_Conte
Guest
Here are some articles which discuss procession and the Trinity:
catholicplanet.com/MHT/index.htm
these articles are somewhat speculative in nature
Ron
catholicplanet.com/MHT/index.htm
these articles are somewhat speculative in nature
Ron
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Daniel_Marsh
Guest
Thanks all
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viktor_aleksndr
Guest
Does the Catholic church and Orthodox churches already finalized the agreement regarding the filioque thing?
M
marlo
Guest
nope, still discussing the matter
Does the Catholic church and Orthodox churches already finalized the agreement regarding the filioque thing?
M
marlo
Guest
the idea the son proceeds from the father is wrong
the Son which is the second person of the Holy Trinity is begotten of the Father. Only the Holy Spirit is proceeding,
if the Son also proceeds like the HolySpirit it would make them brothers, which is wrong
thanks
the Son which is the second person of the Holy Trinity is begotten of the Father. Only the Holy Spirit is proceeding,
if the Son also proceeds like the HolySpirit it would make them brothers, which is wrong
thanks
How would you explain that the Son of God proceeds from the Father and that the Holy Spirit proceeds from God the Father and from The Son? I think the technical term is eternal generation.
J
jpjd
Guest
Roman Catholics believe Jesus was begotten of the Father, and the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. Read the Nicene Creed, which we say every Sunday at Mass:
NICENE CREED
We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God,
begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered, died, and was buried.
On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.
NICENE CREED
We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God,
begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered, died, and was buried.
On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.
F
francisca
Guest
Jesus said :
John 16:7
But I tell you the truth, it is better for you that I go. For if I do not go, the Advocate will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.
If Jesus did not go, the holy spirit will not come. But if Jesus go, he will send him to us. Doesn’t this verse explain “filioque” ?
John 16:7
But I tell you the truth, it is better for you that I go. For if I do not go, the Advocate will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.
If Jesus did not go, the holy spirit will not come. But if Jesus go, he will send him to us. Doesn’t this verse explain “filioque” ?
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Eireann
Guest
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)How would you explain that the Son of God proceeds from the Father and that the Holy Spirit proceeds from God the Father and from The Son? I think the technical term is eternal generation.
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Chesster
Guest
Wrong, the Son proceeds from the Father, John 8:42.the idea the son proceeds from the father is wrong
the Son which is the second person of the Holy Trinity is begotten of the Father. Only the Holy Spirit is proceeding,
if the Son also proceeds like the HolySpirit it would make them brothers, which is wrong
thanks
The procession of the Son from the Father is called begotten or generation.
The procession of the Holy Spirit from the Father and the Son is called spiration.
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Daniel_Marsh
Guest
John 8:42 (King James Version)
Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for** I proceeded forth and came from God;** neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
John 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which **proceedeth **from the Father, he shall testify of me:
So, what is the difference between proceeding, and begotten and can one be both at the same time?
Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for** I proceeded forth and came from God;** neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
John 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which **proceedeth **from the Father, he shall testify of me:
So, what is the difference between proceeding, and begotten and can one be both at the same time?
C
Chesster
Guest
The term proceeding applies to both the Son and the Holy Spirit. The term begotten only applies to the Son. We do not say that the Holy Spirit is begotten.
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Daniel_Marsh
Guest
and what exactly do the two terms mean in christian theology?
C
Chesster
Guest
St. Thomas Aquinas answers this hereand what exactly do the two terms mean in christian theology?
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