Song of Songs

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We all know the Our Father.

We all know we are children of God.

And we all know through the Song of Songs and Christian Tradition that after we finish our milk we get His food to eat.

We all know we become the Bride of Christ. WOW.
 
Jim_Baur said:
We all know the Our Father.

We all know we are children of God.

And we all know through the Song of Songs and Christian Tradition that after we finish our milk we get His food to eat.

We all know we become the Bride of Christ. WOW.
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Hm? You probably know this already, but its not automatic:
Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Sincerely,

De Maria
 
We don’t become the Bride of Christ. The Church is the Bride of Christ.

Let us rejoice and be glad
and give him glory.
For the wedding day of the Lamb has come,
his bride has made herself ready.
(Revelation 19:7)

We want to be part of that at the end of time, but each of us does not become the Bride of Christ individually. We have to be part of the Church because the Church - the New Jerusalem - is the bride.

I also saw the holy city, a new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. (Revelation 20:2)

Catholicism believes in redemptive suffering, the communion of saints and that our personal sins injure the entire body of Christ. It’s not us individually. It’s the Church.

-Tim-
 
Origen claims with several others of his era, that the bride is the soul and the Church.

I have read his Song of Songs many times.

He could be wrong, but the Popes have said he is the best in the East.

I do not know.

Also, baptism is seen as a wedding bath, I think. But again, I am not certain.

Thanks for the insights and help!
 
Jim, I thought about this after posting last night.

You obviously had something in mind that I’m not sure I fully grasped, and I realized that between De Maria and myself, we probably dumped on you a little harder than we really needed to. That was not my intent and I’m sure it wasn’t De Maria’s either.

I do believe that the Bride is the Church. I had not heard about the wedding bath. Interesting.

My best friend is a Methodist Pastor. He called me one day to see what I thought about the sexual nature of these scriptures, specifically Song of Songs and Revelation which says that Christ stands at the door of the bedchamber in which his bride awaits and knocks. He was like, “It is so erotic!” :eek: and I was like, “Well, if you think that is powerful, you ought to recieve the Eucharist!” 👍 He wanted to preach a sermon on the subject and in the end chickened out. 😃

But I’ve often thought of how erotic it all is, or more correctly, how God uses language which evokes eroticism to teach us of how desireable union with him is. He starts in the very first chapter of Genesis, telling us that male and female are created in the image of the trinity. Christ goes on to tell us that he and the Father will make come to us and make their abode in us. And the wedding feast and bride of Christ language is clearly provocative, not to mention Song of Songs which is all but ignored in some Churches.

-Tim-
 
Thanks!!!

I believe we use the word nuptial instead of marriage.

If you happen to come across Origen’s work on the Song of Songs, he says in the introduction that the Song of Songs was to be read by a mature person, for the Jews and for the Christians. This is for the reasons that you mentioned. It also clearly points out the spiritual nature of Scriptures.

Also, the old tradition of saying Jesus is the bridegroom instead of the groom messes up our understanding. Jesus is the GROOM or BRIDEGROOM of Song of Songs.

Also, in the early Church, the highest part of humans is seen as female.

Also, I found this is be interesting, Origen’s scribes were ladies.

Jeromes’ fellow workers were ladies, too. I just do not know if the ladies were scribes and also scholars. I am not sure what the ladies jobs were. I am eating lunch–gotta go.
 
Jim_Baur said:
…
Also, the old tradition of saying Jesus is the bridegroom instead of the groom messes up our understanding. Jesus is the GROOM or BRIDEGROOM of Song of Songs.
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On the contrary. There are many levels of understanding in the Song of Songs. The “old Tradition” with a capital T, that Jesus is the bridegroom of the Church is one of the most explicit. It certainly doesn’t mess it up, but underlies and undergirds every other meaning.
Also, in the early Church, the highest part of humans is seen as female.
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A bit of minutae, science has discovered that all people begin their lives as female.
*The human embryo is sexually undifferentiated during the first few weeks of its life… A clear differentiation begins only toward the end of the second month after conception. In the case of a male embryo, the production of the hormone testosterone (one of the androgens) is started, which slowly transforms the embryonic genital hump into a penis…

In the case of a female embryo, nothing special or additional is needed because the external and internal sex organs differentiate “automatically.” (In a sense, therefore, the female sex might be called the “basic” or “primary” one.) … *
www2.hu-berlin.de/sexology/ATLAS_EN/html/the_role_of_hormones.html
Also, I found this is be interesting, Origen’s scribes were ladies.

Jeromes’ fellow workers were ladies, too. I just do not know if the ladies were scribes and also scholars. I am not sure what the ladies jobs were. I am eating lunch–gotta go.
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Ok. Remember, the whole point behind the Song of Songs is that God loves each and every one of us. And that we should love Him in return. And teach others to love Him as well.

Sincerely,

De Maria
 
We say Our Father; we are children.

We say I do; then our love is much greater for the groom.

The love between spouses is much more mature than the infant’s love for her parents.

That is the point I was trying to make in this thread.

All of the other ideas are really, really remote.

I am sorry about the really, really remote trivia.
 
Jim_Baur said:
The love between spouses is much more mature than the infant’s love for her parents.
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Brings to mind Genesis…

God created mankind in his image; in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them. (Genesis 1:27)

Man and woman, male and female, naked and without shame - in the image of the Divine Trinity.

The word spirit comes from the latin word spiritus which means breath, in Hebrew ruah. God the Father loves God the Son perfectly. God the Son loves God the Father perfectly. The result of that love, the spirit of God, the breath of God, is the Holy Spirit. We testify to that in the creed at every Mass.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.

One could say that the Holy Spirit is the heavy breathing which results from the perfect love between God the Father and God the Son. :eek: And male and female are created in that image. Just as God the Father loving God the Son and God the Son loving God the Father produces the Holy Spirit, husband and wife loving each other perfectly, selflessly, produces a child.

That is why holy matrimony is a sacrament, because the love between husband and wife, and children which result, has the most Holy Trinity as its model - Father, Son and Holy Spirit, which is the Breath of God. Its a sacrament because it is a visible sign of invisible divine realities and if lived as it should, selflessly, each sacrificing themself for the other, it confers great grace on us.

It’s how Christ loves his Church.

-Tim-
 
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