Son's therapist--chapter 2

[1990Domer]

Thank you to all tha responded to the first post! After the South Park recommendation, I told DH I really wanted a break from her. I didn’t like the advice she was giving my son to “fit in,” but DH was supporting continued therapy. To be fair, DH wasn’t always in the loop either. That was probably more my fault because of his job and long commute. But DH was also not open to listening to what my son wanted to tell him (his assumption was that my son was bringing up old hurts).

So, I wanted a break after she brought up the South Park. But also, it was due to my leg injury, feeling tired, overwhelmed and starting PT. Also, my medical bills were pouring in (a whole different story–tibia broken in 7 places while on vacation, needed emergency surgery to stabilize leg to get home and needed surgery to fix tibia) and she was just not value added.

Since last Friday, she has been pushing us to take DS to her because he has “significant social challenges.” She told DS this in a few sessions (I was waiting outside), but this message was not told to me. DS was dreading her appointments. I can’t blame him! But DH wanted to schedule (I can’t drive).

The poop hit the fan when we cancelled this week, but DH wanted to schedule a session for next week. I said no and DS said he didn’t want to go. Finally, my stubborn DH (he gets that way) listened to me and DS about the sessions. No more sessions until the therapist gets a firm talking to.

I ask…is working with her even salvageable? BTW, as of last night, she was still calling us on the carpet for our decision.

Thanks for any insights!

 

[pensmama87]

Thank you to all tha responded to the first post! After the South Park recommendation, I told DH I really wanted a break from her. I didn’t like the advice she was giving my son to “fit in,” but DH was supporting continued therapy. To be fair, DH wasn’t always in the loop either. That was probably more my fault because of his job and long commute. But DH was also not open to listening to what my son wanted to tell him (his assumption was that my son was bringing up old hurts).

So, I wanted a break after she brought up the South Park. But also, it was due to my leg injury, feeling tired, overwhelmed and starting PT. Also, my medical bills were pouring in (a whole different story–tibia broken in 7 places while on vacation, needed emergency surgery to stabilize leg to get home and needed surgery to fix tibia) and she was just not value added.

Since last Friday, she has been pushing us to take DS to her because he has “significant social challenges.” She told DS this in a few sessions (I was waiting outside), but this message was not told to me. DS was dreading her appointments. I can’t blame him! But DH wanted to schedule (I can’t drive).

The poop hit the fan when we cancelled this week, but DH wanted to schedule a session for next week. I said no and DS said he didn’t want to go. Finally, my stubborn DH (he gets that way) listened to me and DS about the sessions. No more sessions until the therapist gets a firm talking to.

I ask…is working with her even salvageable? BTW, as of last night, she was still calling us on the carpet for our decision.

Thanks for any insights!

If your son really hates going to see her, then that would be the strongest indication that she just isn’t a good fit for him. It does not have to be personal - this is something that happens, even with perfectly competent professionals.

The one thing I would caution you about is to not entirely abandon the idea of therapy, or even some of her suggestions (in your other thread, I suggested you focus on the broad theme of your son developing some common interests with his peers, and not hyperfocus on the immoral suggestion of South Park and end up throwing out the baby with the bathwater, and I stand by that). Based on what you’ve written in the past I’m inclined to agree with her assessment that he does in fact need help with social skills.

Also, due to your son’s age, it’s possible that therapists may not reveal everything that’s told in session. I did therapy as a teen and there are things I would absolutely not have been willing to talk about if I knew my mother would know. Nothing immoral, but (for example) sometimes frustrations about my relationships with family members, including my parents. As your son gets older, I understand your concern about immoral matters, and this is something I think about with my own sons, but he’s getting older and patient confidentiality will become more important for the sake of his own health.

 

[1990Domer]

@pensmama,

I agree he is still quirky, and by no means are we or will we deny him therapy. A big part of the problem is that she has a distaste for the RCC. At one point, she suggested we change denominations because of all the Church’s rules. She challenged me and the Church about how Catholics discern a vocation. These talks are tedious, long, and expensive.

His hang-up is that she is telling him that his social skills are terrible and need a lot of work while DH and I are hearing the opposite from people we see regularly at church.

One recent example (nothing to do with social skills) is her insistence about DS sort of saying up-front to new people that he has Aspergers, so kids can come him a break with his social skills. Also, she suggested TV shows he should watch and what type of music to listen to.

The last straw for him was her comparing him to a former classmate who has significant issues…way more profound even though he is diagnosed with Aspergers. He said that comparison really hurt him because even he could recognize that this classmate had a lot of issues.

DH and I think a Catholic counselor might be a better fit, as his social skills may need to be refined more along those lines.

 

[pianistclare]

There are dozens of therapists to counsel your son.
When she calls simply say" Thank you so much for your concern…we have found another professional." End of story.

Of course, she’s angry and thinks you are neglecting him.
Let her know that you have found someone else, and DO THAT. Find someone else.
Soon. High School is a huge adjustment for even the most outgoing kid with no various diagnoses. Get him someone that he can connect with. Sooner than later. Like, yesterday.
That’s what Uber is for. Times like this.

Praying for you all, Get well soon!!!

 

[AnneElizabeth]

I second what pens momma said. It’s time for a new therapist. I held on to a doctor I had for way too long. We got along but our ideals/morals/beleifs didn’t mesh. She made it clear she was anti-catholic, in a “nice” way. Her suggestions to me went against my faith beliefs, and seemed to be irritated with me when I would not comply…and rightly so as she could not help me because our beliefs differed and yet I was still going to her expecting her to change. No one is to blame when there is a clash like this, but don’t keep on going like this clash is not happening. If you are not willing to give into the treatment offered, it’s time to find a therapist who doesn’t clash. I know that’s tough, but it will be better once you find someone who supports your lifestyle and beliefs.

 

[UbiCaritas]

If your son really hates going to see her, then that would be the strongest indication that she just isn’t a good fit for him. It does not have to be personal - this is something that happens, even with perfectly competent professionals.

The one thing I would caution you about is to not entirely abandon the idea of therapy, or even some of her suggestions (in your other thread, I suggested you focus on the broad theme of your son developing some common interests with his peers, and not hyperfocus on the immoral suggestion of South Park and end up throwing out the baby with the bathwater, and I stand by that). Based on what you’ve written in the past I’m inclined to agree with her assessment that he does in fact need help with social skills.

Also, due to your son’s age, it’s possible that therapists may not reveal everything that’s told in session. I did therapy as a teen and there are things I would absolutely not have been willing to talk about if I knew my mother would know. Nothing immoral, but (for example) sometimes frustrations about my relationships with family members, including my parents. As your son gets older, I understand your concern about immoral matters, and this is something I think about with my own sons, but he’s getting older and patient confidentiality will become more important for the sake of his own health.

I agree with all of this.

The common ground thing is really important to teens and adults alike. I grew up in a highly restrictive home where we weren’t allowed to watch, well, anything that other kids got to watch, or read the books they were reading, or dress the way they did. It’s totally reasonable to, say, not allow your teen to watch South Park, or to ixnay Daisy Duke shorts paired with crop tops, but it’s less reasonable to decide that your teen can’t watch or read much of anything that’s been made or published in the last 30+ years, or that they must avoid making friends with anyone who has sideswept bangs in her hair.

The end result for me was that when I went to public high school from the insular homeschool community in which I’d grown up, I felt like everyone there was speaking a different language. We had no common ground at all, nothing to talk about, because I’d never gone to the events they went to (high school sports events, for example) or read books, assigned in school or not, that were formative for them, or seen a Disney movie made in the last several decades, or even worn clothing like theirs. As a result, when they brought up a topic, I’d have no idea how to respond, which meant not much in the way of a social life, believe me.

I suppose that on the bright side, I’d finally learned not to say in a rather snotty tone, as I used to when in late elementary/middle school, “We aren’t allowed to watch that; it’s bad”–usually in reference to something like Disney’s “Sleeping Beauty,” or whatever, but I still had a very long way to go before I was capable of normal conversation with my peers. My wish for your son is that he doesn’t have to struggle as badly as I did. So if the therapist is a wash, fine…but don’t give up on therapy as such. No matter what your son’s vocation might be, it is crucial that he learn to navigate the social norms of his world.

The last thing that jumped out at me is that your husband didn’t want to talk about all this, which makes me wonder if family therapy, in order to work on communicating important information, could also be in order.

 

[Xantippe]

Thank you to all tha responded to the first post! After the South Park recommendation, I told DH I really wanted a break from her. I didn’t like the advice she was giving my son to “fit in,” but DH was supporting continued therapy. To be fair, DH wasn’t always in the loop either. That was probably more my fault because of his job and long commute. But DH was also not open to listening to what my son wanted to tell him (his assumption was that my son was bringing up old hurts).

So, I wanted a break after she brought up the South Park. But also, it was due to my leg injury, feeling tired, overwhelmed and starting PT. Also, my medical bills were pouring in (a whole different story–tibia broken in 7 places while on vacation, needed emergency surgery to stabilize leg to get home and needed surgery to fix tibia) and she was just not value added.

Since last Friday, she has been pushing us to take DS to her because he has “significant social challenges.” She told DS this in a few sessions (I was waiting outside), but this message was not told to me. DS was dreading her appointments. I can’t blame him! But DH wanted to schedule (I can’t drive).

The poop hit the fan when we cancelled this week, but DH wanted to schedule a session for next week. I said no and DS said he didn’t want to go. Finally, my stubborn DH (he gets that way) listened to me and DS about the sessions. No more sessions until the therapist gets a firm talking to.

I ask…is working with her even salvageable? BTW, as of last night, she was still calling us on the carpet for our decision.

Thanks for any insights!

Apologies for not having read the thread yet.

–Not doing therapy with this lady doesn’t mean not doing therapy at all.
–Find somebody else that your son likes better. He needs to like his therapist for this to work.
–Don’t be afraid to take a break from therapy until it fits your schedule or health situation better. Not forever, but maybe try again in October?
–Run, run away from this particular woman. She’s being really inappropriate.
–You can’t fix her by talking to her. Find somebody who doesn’t need to be taught her job.
–There’s a limit to what she can do in terms of improving social skills in her office.
–Concentrate your efforts on getting son into activities and staying in touch with the adults who run the activities, and make it clear to them that it’s actually helpful to your son to occasionally give him pointers.

At our house, my daughter used to see her psychologist fairly often (probably at least once a month–maybe even twice a month?). But, as her school has gotten more challenging and she has gotten better at social stuff, we’ve bumped her down to just coming maybe 3 times during the summer, plus very occasional apts. during the school year (I sometimes go in by myself just to update the psychologist on Big Girl’s doings). The psychologist hasn’t said boo.

Good luck!

 

[pensmama87]

The comments about Catholicism are seriously unprofessional. If you can find a Catholic therapist, that’s great, but her comments about faith would be regarded as distasteful by any competent therapist. The best one I ever had was not Catholic. A friend of mine who’s also very passionate about her faith saw a Jewish therapist for a time who was pretty liberal, but she checked that at the door and was incredibly helpful with the stuff my friend was dealing with at the time. That’s how competent therapists work.

 

[Xantippe]

@pensmama,

I agree he is still quirky, and by no means are we or will we deny him therapy. A big part of the problem is that she has a distaste for the RCC. At one point, she suggested we change denominations because of all the Church’s rules. She challenged me and the Church about how Catholics discern a vocation.** These talks are tedious, long, and expensive. **

His hang-up is that **she is telling him that his social skills are terrible and need a lot of work **while DH and I are hearing the opposite from people we see regularly at church.

One recent example (nothing to do with social skills) is her insistence about DS sort of saying up-front to new people that he has Aspergers, so kids can come him a break with his social skills. Also, she suggested TV shows he should watch and what type of music to listen to.

The last straw for him was her comparing him to a former classmate who has significant issues…way more profound even though he is diagnosed with Aspergers. He said that comparison really hurt him because even he could recognize that this classmate had a lot of issues.

DH and I think a Catholic counselor might be a better fit, as his social skills may need to be refined more along those lines.

Wow, it sounds like somebody needs to work on her social skills.

If the people at church see him at school, then that carries some weight, but if they only see him at church, I would not put a lot of weight on it.

As you have probably already figured out, telling him that his social skills are terrible is not productive. Where did this lady get her diploma–a Cracker Jacks box?

Did she violate confidentiality by comparing your son to another patient?

All of her ideas are terrible–or at least need a lot of nuancing.

 

[pianistclare]

Wow, it sounds like somebody needs to work on her social skills.

If the people at church see him at school, then that carries some weight, but if they only see him at church, I would not put a lot of weight on it.

As you have probably already figured out, telling him that his social skills are terrible is not productive. Where did this lady get her diploma–a Cracker Jacks box?

Did she violate confidentiality by comparing your son to another patient?

All of her ideas are terrible–or at least need a lot of nuancing.

yeah. I was thinking the same thing. No bueno.

 

[EmeraldOak]

“BTW, as of last night, she was still calling us on the carpet for our decision.”

This sits very wrong with me. This therapist has no authority over you. You are your child’s parent, and you make the final decision. Of course she will disagree, Lowe’s thinks I should be shopping at Home Depot, Foot Locker thinks I am a fool to shop at Shoe Carnival. KWIM

I have an adopted 11 year old daughter who was seeing a therapist this year for behavioral issues. We went for 6 months. My daughter enjoyed it and looked forward to going. She viewed her therapist as an older, wise friend who could help her learn coping strategies. The therapist did not tell me everything they talked about, only what she thought I needed to know. I did see positive changes and that is why we went as long as we did. But after 6 months it was no longer feasible for us so I informed her that that month would be our last. She said she thought our daughter could benefit from more therapy, but she was respectful and understanding of our reasons for discontinuing at that time. And we left the door open for her to return should things regress. It was all very amicable.

I think it is a red flag that your son’s therapist seems so pushy. Her way is not the only way. She is not the only therapist in the world. Perhaps seek out a second opinion, by speaking with another therapist. That person may have a different approach, one that is more palatable to you and your son.

 

[Xantippe]

“BTW, as of last night, she was still calling us on the carpet for our decision.”

This sits very wrong with me. This therapist has no authority over you. You are your child’s parent, and you make the final decision. Of course she will disagree, Lowe’s thinks I should be shopping at Home Depot, Foot Locker thinks I am a fool to shop at Shoe Carnival. KWIM

I have an adopted 11 year old daughter who was seeing a therapist this year for behavioral issues. We went for 6 months. My daughter enjoyed it and looked forward to going. She viewed her therapist as an older, wise friend who could help her learn coping strategies. The therapist did not tell me everything they talked about, only what she thought I needed to know. I did see positive changes and that is why we went as long as we did. But after 6 months it was no longer feasible for us so I informed her that that month would be our last. She said she thought our daughter could benefit from more therapy, but she was respectful and understanding of our reasons for discontinuing at that time. **And we left the door open for her to return should things regress. It was all very amicable. **

I think it is a red flag that your son’s therapist seems so pushy. Her way is not the only way. She is not the only therapist in the world. Perhaps seek out a second opinion, by speaking with another therapist. That person may have a different approach, one that is more palatable to you and your son.

Right.

That’s more or less what we’ve done–seeing the psychologist less, but maintaining ties so that if there’s some sort of issue, we can go back. It’s like having an IV put in at the hospital–so they can start fluids instantly in case of crisis.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

So…I usually post to defend psychotherapists against people who argue that “all shrinks are quacks” and Catholics should be praying instead to cure their psychiatric issues. However, while I am strongly in favor of effective therapy, I can’t find any evidence from your post that this current therapy is an example of such therapy. Maybe this therapist has helped your son in some ways, but it seems the harms are outweighing the benefits at this point.

@pensmama,

I agree he is still quirky, and by no means are we or will we deny him therapy. A big part of the problem is that she has a distaste for the RCC. At one point, she suggested we change denominations because of all the Church’s rules. She challenged me and the Church about how Catholics discern a vocation. These talks are tedious, long, and expensive.

Why are you literally spending money to argue with this “therapist” and why are you sending your son to have confidential therapy sessions with a woman who has a “distaste” for your Church?

I realize sometimes it is difficult to find an actual Catholic therapist, but I agree with the other posters that a competent, professional therapist should NOT let her personal opinions about religion interfere with her professional work.

The last straw for him was her comparing him to a former classmate who has significant issues…way more profound even though he is diagnosed with Aspergers. He said that comparison really hurt him because even he could recognize that this classmate had a lot of issues.

Again, why are you spending money to place your son in the power of someone who insulting him and hurting him?

I find this situation is doing worse than simply not helping you son, it is hurting him – and I think even no therapist would be better than this one. But I am sure it would not be too difficult to find someone who actually helps your son and doesn’t harm him. Please don’t subject your son to anymore of this “therapy” that seems to be a case of the “cure being worse than the disease”.

ETA: Now that I know of a “distaste for the Church” I am seriously questioning the motive behind her “watch South Park to fit in” advice, that this wasn’t just about your son’s ASD but her notion that “Catholics are repressed fuddy-duddies and this kid is better off following secular norms and watching vulgar TV shows”…and perhaps on down the line “the kid is better off having sex with some girlfriends than being a priest”. There is sadly enough people out there who are perfectly willing to corrupt children for free, why pay to have someone do that?

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Thank you to all tha responded to the first post! After the South Park recommendation, I told DH I really wanted a break from her. I didn’t like the advice she was giving my son to “fit in,” but DH was supporting continued therapy. To be fair, DH wasn’t always in the loop either. That was probably more my fault because of his job and long commute. But DH was also not open to listening to what my son wanted to tell him (his assumption was that my son was bringing up old hurts).

So, I wanted a break after she brought up the South Park. But also, it was due to my leg injury, feeling tired, overwhelmed and starting PT. Also, my medical bills were pouring in (a whole different story–tibia broken in 7 places while on vacation, needed emergency surgery to stabilize leg to get home and needed surgery to fix tibia) and she was just not value added.

Since last Friday, she has been pushing us to take DS to her because he has “significant social challenges.” She told DS this in a few sessions (I was waiting outside), but this message was not told to me. DS was dreading her appointments. I can’t blame him! But DH wanted to schedule (I can’t drive).

The poop hit the fan when we cancelled this week, but DH wanted to schedule a session for next week. I said no and DS said he didn’t want to go. Finally, my stubborn DH (he gets that way) listened to me and DS about the sessions. No more sessions until the therapist gets a firm talking to.

I ask…is working with her even salvageable? BTW, as of last night, she was still calling us on the carpet for our decision.

Thanks for any insights!

From part one to this part two. It’s looking like your therapist may be not the right one for your son.

The therapist is coming accross as pushy, and either ignorant of your family’s moral code ( or ignorant of the things they are recommending). Time to find a better fit for your child.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Thank you to all tha responded to the first post! After the South Park recommendation, I told DH I really wanted a break from her. I didn’t like the advice she was giving my son to “fit in,” but DH was supporting continued therapy. To be fair, DH wasn’t always in the loop either. That was probably more my fault because of his job and long commute. But DH was also not open to listening to what my son wanted to tell him (his assumption was that my son was bringing up old hurts).

So, I wanted a break after she brought up the South Park. But also, it was due to my leg injury, feeling tired, overwhelmed and starting PT. Also, my medical bills were pouring in (a whole different story–tibia broken in 7 places while on vacation, needed emergency surgery to stabilize leg to get home and needed surgery to fix tibia) and she was just not value added.

Since last Friday, she has been pushing us to take DS to her because he has “significant social challenges.” She told DS this in a few sessions (I was waiting outside), but this message was not told to me. DS was dreading her appointments. I can’t blame him! But DH wanted to schedule (I can’t drive).

The poop hit the fan when we cancelled this week, but DH wanted to schedule a session for next week. I said no and DS said he didn’t want to go. Finally, my stubborn DH (he gets that way) listened to me and DS about the sessions. No more sessions until the therapist gets a firm talking to.

I ask…is working with her even salvageable? BTW, as of last night, she was still calling us on the carpet for our decision.

Thanks for any insights!

Can her like a tuna!

Seriously.

 

[kptrs]

So…I usually post to defend psychotherapists against people who argue that “all shrinks are quacks” and Catholics should be praying instead to cure their psychiatric issues. However, while I am strongly in favor of effective therapy, I can’t find any evidence from your post that this current therapy is an example of such therapy. Maybe this therapist has helped your son in some ways, but it seems the harms are outweighing the benefits at this point.

Why are you literally spending money to argue with this “therapist” and why are you sending your son to have confidential therapy sessions with a woman who has a “distaste” for your Church?

I realize sometimes it is difficult to find an actual Catholic therapist, but I agree with the other posters that a competent, professional therapist should NOT let her personal opinions about religion interfere with her professional work.

Again, why are you spending money to place your son in the power of someone who insulting him and hurting him?

I find this situation is doing worse than simply not helping you son, it is hurting him – and I think even no therapist would be better than this one. But I am sure it would not be too difficult to find someone who actually helps your son and doesn’t harm him. Please don’t subject your son to anymore of this “therapy” that seems to be a case of the “cure being worse than the disease”.

ETA: Now that I know of a “distaste for the Church” I am seriously questioning the motive behind her “watch South Park to fit in” advice, that this wasn’t just about your son’s ASD but her notion that “Catholics are repressed fuddy-duddies and this kid is better off following secular norms and watching vulgar TV shows”…and perhaps on down the line “the kid is better off having sex with some girlfriends than being a priest”. There is sadly enough people out there who are perfectly willing to corrupt children for free, why pay to have someone do that?

Right on

 

[1990Domer]

Thank you for the replies, my kind friend here. I will try to fill in some gaps.

1. My son only recently told us about the various things the therapist was telling him as I waited outside. She was giving me and DH a different message. DS wrote down all the things he found distasteful. So, her mutterings about the RCC and its rules were worse than we thought.
2. His friends from church are going to HS with him. These boys are religious, brainy and also quirky.
3. I have an idea of a Catholic therapist I want to use, when and if needed. I just need to touch base with her.
4. DH is also on the spectrum in some way. Yes, we do attend therapy sessions when our communication is struggling.
5. We don’t restrict DS from watching or listening to anything. He’s tried a couple of her suggestions for shows and found them disgusting. He and DH watched all the Star Wars movies so he could talk about those movies with others. He self filters what he wants to.
6. She wants him to tell lies about things he doesn’t like (tell kids he likes such and such) so as to not hurt the other kids’ feelings.

To sum up my personal feelings. He has a great mind and great traits to offer the world. I don’t want him to be a sheepie and follow kids who may be secular humanists just to fit in. FWIW, two young men from the last graduating class from chosen HS are entering the seminary. I think the fit bodes well for him.

 

[Allegra]

Fire the shrink. The fact that he doesn’t like going to her is reason enough. The fact that you discovered that she is attempting to undermine his faith would close the book for me. The South Park thing, ditto. This is a person you have trusted to guide your child in matters that are kept confidential from you. You simply can’t trust her anymore. You don’t owe her anything. Inform her that her services are no longer needed.

And then, I’m wondering if this kind of therapist is really the solution for social skills anyway. It seems to me that I’ve heard of groups of autism spectrum kiddos meeting with a counselor and working on social skills in an actual social setting. I don’t know if your son is already past that level of intervention, but surely there’s someone out there with an idea that’s better than, “learn about an outdated and grotesque TV show that you find repugnant so you can pretend it interests you and fit in.”

 

[NonTimendum]

Female therapist for a boy? Not a good idea.

 

[Xantippe]

Fire the shrink. The fact that he doesn’t like going to her is reason enough. The fact that you discovered that she is attempting to undermine his faith would close the book for me. The South Park thing, ditto. This is a person you have trusted to guide your child in matters that are kept confidential from you. You simply can’t trust her anymore. You don’t owe her anything. Inform her that her services are no longer needed.

And then, I’m wondering if this kind of therapist is really the solution for social skills anyway. It seems to me that I’ve heard of groups of autism spectrum kiddos meeting with a counselor and working on social skills in an actual social setting. I don’t know if your son is already past that level of intervention, but surely there’s someone out there with an idea that’s better than, “learn about an outdated and grotesque TV show that you find repugnant so you can pretend it interests you and fit in.”

Yeah.

Locally, we have an autism dinner group for teens and young adults. They go out to dinner regularly.

There are also library teen activities that might be fun. Our local library does older tween/teen board game meetings.

I would use his actual interests as a jumping off point for finding people who share his interests, rather than trying to manufacture interests.

Another thing that comes to mind is that my autism books say to be careful about peer groups, because some autistic kids are liable to agree to do bad things to fit in, not realizing that they are being set up by the peers that they want to please.

When he gets a bit older, you could help him set up a Meet Up for his interests if there’s nothing available locally.