Soon to be 12 year old daughter

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Drama happens, maybe you are just lucky, or maybe you haven’t been exposed to it **yet. **

But to say that the OP is “sucked into the drama” is a bit insulting. Everyone else that has responded on this thread has offered suggestions and comments because we know this is real and that some of our children, boys as well as girls, have been in the same situation. I do think it is interesting that you made the comments you made, but then want to know what dad has to say. This isn’t about the dad anymore than it is about the mom. It’s about her daughter.

I’ll bow out.

 

[PhiloMed]

Mean girls is a high school movie. ( a good one at that). And while yes, we homeschool, we are quite involved with children of all types. And I’m aware of the declining age at which these things are happening especially with girls, I cannot imagine not being able to direct and coach my child in dicerning social behaviors. It’s kinda my job.

Yes. We know. You’re the perfect parent and never need advice, help, or the opinion of anyone else.

Perhaps we aren’t all quite so blessed.

Never the less, this situation was not unusual to my 12 year old self over 20 years ago so it is not a new phenomenon.

 

[pianistclare]

Yes. We know. You’re the perfect parent and never need advice, help, or the opinion of anyone else.

Perhaps we aren’t all quite so blessed.

Never the less, this situation was not unusual to my 12 year old self over 20 years ago so it is not a new phenomenon.

yup. My daughter encountered this in pre-school.
Kids do that.
It will pass. Kids learn who they can trust and who makes them terribly unhappy.
It’s hard to watch go down. but really…life has many ups and downs. How we deal is what makes us great, or yet another bully.
No one is immune to this. I totally agree with Philo Med.
Hopefully, Catholic children are well equipped to know when the “mercy” kicks in, and when it’s best to dust off our sandals and walk away.

 

[Xantippe]

Hello.

I was hoping to get some advice regarding my daughter and her friend.

I don’t really approve of the friendship. I haven’t voiced my opinion to my daughter, I’m trying to be fair. I’m not sure if I actually should say something, or let my daughter figure it out on her own.

The reason I don’t know what to do is when I was young, my mom would nag and nag me if I had a friend she didn’t like. She’d bring up everything negative, all the time. Her approach wouldn’t really work. I’d try to see the good in that person, even if my mom was right about her/him.

So now my DD. It’s been a particularly stressful time (my oldest was hospitalized for 5 months, and I needed to stay with him at the hospital. I was home just 1 night a week it was just a stressful situation overall)

My daughter did have a network of friends, nice young ladies with nice parents that we’d interact with at Church and school events.

This year, DD has this one friend. And I feel this friend is somewhat of a negative influence. For example, she seems to be manipulative. Yesterday, my daughter was upset. Apparently at lunch my daughter spent time talking to another girl. This bothered her “friend”. She told my daughter that she wasn’t speaking to her, and she instructed some other children to not speak to my daughter as well. The “friend” felt slighted that DD would speak to someone else. The someone else is a very sweet young lady whom I’ve known since DD was in preschool. Very sweet, very friendly.

DD has also been instructed to no be friends with another girl. This other girl is also very sweet, I’ve known her for years, her parents are nice people. DD’s “friend” doesn’t like her, so DD is not “allowed” to be her friend.

Most of the other friends in the class will say hello to me when they see me. This “friend” barely acknowledges me. Recently I took both girls out, and I had the impression they were rolling their eyes at me. I know girls at that age can be catty, but hey I took them out shopping, make the effort to not be catty.

Anyway, yesterday in the afternoon, DD was again communicating with “friend”. I asked, “Did she say she was sorry.” DD told me she called “friend”, and that they were friends again. I wanted to say that she shouldn’t have called, and that “friend” was mean to not speak to DD.

Now I know what my mother would do. She’d nag me on and on about how “friend” is not my friend, she’s manipulative, she’s jealous of me etc. I sort of feel these things about DD’s “friend”. How do I communicate this to her without cementing the friendship even tighter than I’d like?

I haven’t caught up with the thread, but I’ll just throw out a few ideas that may have already been shared.

I don’t think I’d say anything (yet), but I would make sure that DD has lots of opportunities over the summer to hang out with and be in touch with the friends that her “friend” doesn’t want her to spend time with. Also, make sure she has a fun and busy summer with lots of contact with other people.

I wouldn’t go out of my way to bring DD and “friend” together (although I wouldn’t be too obvious about it). However, situations occasionally come up in watching media that might be relevant (for instance on Disney teen shows)…

 

[Xantippe]

If you haven’t already, please read the book Queen bees and wannabes. After you read it, you may be able to discuss parts of it with your daughter. Instead of saying anything negative about her friend, speak positively about the other sweet friends. Offer to do something with them. And please, teach your daughter that real friends don’t tell them who they can be friends with, that it is okay to be friends with all types of people, and that if someone tries to control you the way the “friend” has, they are not true friends, and that it is okay to let them go. She will have many friends throughout her life.

Yeah.

Come to think of it, this is good training for dealing with boyfriends later on.

 

[Xantippe]

I** would ask your daughter how she feels about the treatment and how she plans to deal with it. If the solution comes from herself, she will listen to it more then if you say the exact same thing. **
As with any undesirable friendship, you can easily not be available for her to spend time after school with this friend as she does not drive. So the contact becomes limited.

Preteen and teenage drama is going to happen and it helps when the teen vents but comes up with their own solutions.

Yes. And summer is coming soon!

 

[Xantippe]

Mean girls is a high school movie. ( a good one at that). And while yes, we homeschool, we are quite involved with children of all types. And I’m aware of the declining age at which these things are happening especially with girls, I cannot imagine not being able to direct and coach my child in dicerning social behaviors. It’s kinda my job.

Well, it’s actually more a junior high than a high school phenomenon.

I remember 6th and 7th grade being much meaner than high school.

 

[pensmama87]

Thank you for sharing, this is very interesting because it echoes what a child psychologist once told me. They told me that not only is bullying bad for the victim, that bullying is also bad for the bullies themselves. The psychologist told me it is common for people to have regrets well into their adulthood of the way they treated people as a child, they have feelings of shame that are difficult to let go of.

MaryGail36 - thank you for updating that your daughter is not actually bullying and/or shunning at this point, that is a good thing! The fact is though she is receiving some pressure to do so, which is not a good thing. I would encourage you to talk to her still and voice your opinions because you know your daughter well and she needs you!

That’s interesting. I wonder if there is a difference between those who bullied once or twice and those who did so much more frequently (or if they just become grown up narcissists or sociopaths…) I have no contact with anybody who bullied me as a child (not for any reason, I just don’t live there anymore) so I have no idea what they are like now. I do know, of course, that some people still like to play these games very much as adults, and there’s usually a history of it in childhood, too.

 

[pianistclare]

That’s interesting. I wonder if there is a difference between those who bullied once or twice and those who did so much more frequently (or if they just become grown up narcissists or sociopaths…) I have no contact with anybody who bullied me as a child (not for any reason, I just don’t live there anymore) so I have no idea what they are like now. I do know, of course, that some people still like to play these games very much as adults, and there’s usually a history of it in childhood, too.

Well, I have a former boss who I truly have come to believe is a sociopath. A person who simply cannot tell the truth about anything, and who insists that EVERYTHING that happens, everything that is ever said, or done, is really a rejection of them.
I heard this person talk about how rejected they were as a child by parents, half-siblings, peers…they told these stories with much laughter, as anecdotes…but I wonder.

Sorry for the derailment, But it got me thinking,

Back to the OP.
npatrol:

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

I have to say the level of drama and dilemma is concerning for an 11 year old. One of my daughters is only one year younger than yours and there is no indication of this level of drama. That your daughter is involved is concerning, that yo are sucked into the drama of it all is also concerning. What does dad say about this?

She’ll be 12 in a couple of weeks. I’m not sucked into the drama, my daughter was upset that her so called “best friend” was giving her the silent treatment, and that she was encouraging other friends to do so.

If I could rewind to 10, yes I would. At 10 everything was fine, she liked Tinkerbell and Pixar movies. Taylor Swift was her favorite singer. And her brother didn’t almost die in front of her.

We’ve been living a family drama for almost 2 years, and we are starting to see the light now. My oldest has PTSD from almost dying. He’s also learning disabled to a certain degree, has short term memory issues, and suffers from cognitive fatigue that turns him into a belligerent drunk when he’s tired. He can’t help any of those things completely.

But that’s a different post.

I’d like my daughter to have nice friends, nice upbeat girls. These girls do seem interested in being friends with my daughter. Her “best friend” is negative about that. I’d like my daughter to feel she has enough self worth to understand that perhaps this girl isn’t really her best friend.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

yup. My daughter encountered this in pre-school.
Kids do that.
It will pass. Kids learn who they can trust and who makes them terribly unhappy.
It’s hard to watch go down. but really…life has many ups and downs. How we deal is what makes us great, or yet another bully.
No one is immune to this. I totally agree with Philo Med.
Hopefully, Catholic children are well equipped to know when the “mercy” kicks in, and when it’s best to dust off our sandals and walk away.

Seriously, something about girls (I hope it’s ok to not be PC)

I remember in kindergarten I had a tonsillectomy. One day at school, one of my classmates at our table while we were cutting and pasting shared, “My little sister needs to have her tonsils taken out.” I said something to the effect, “Oh wow, she’s going to get ice cream!!” maybe I giggled

This offended my classmate, and she thought I was teasing her sister, and she and the other girls at my table were saying, “Oooh, we’re telling the teacher.”

I didn’t do anything intentionally wrong, I didn’t mean to hurt her feelings. To me tonsillectomy meant ice-cream, pudding, and jello and getting to watch Bugs Bunny instead of going to school.

This was I guess about 41 years ago, so drama isn’t a new thing.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Thank you for sharing, this is very interesting because it echoes what a child psychologist once told me. They told me that not only is bullying bad for the victim, that bullying is also bad for the bullies themselves. The psychologist told me it is common for people to have regrets well into their adulthood of the way they treated people as a child, they have feelings of shame that are difficult to let go of.

MaryGail36 - thank you for updating that your daughter is not actually bullying and/or shunning at this point, that is a good thing! The fact is though she is receiving some pressure to do so, which is not a good thing. I would encourage you to talk to her still and voice your opinions because you know your daughter well and she needs you!

Thank you. I asked her about the other girls. She said they were still friends. They sit at different lunch tables, though, and that limits interaction a bit. The lunch tables are assigned. What I do like about the school is that they have a policy of shuffling up the grade so that each year, there is a different mix of kids per class. I guess that’s to avoid permanent cliques.

I think Xantippe mentioned it’s the end of the year. Which is a good thing.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Well, it’s actually more a junior high than a high school phenomenon.

I remember 6th and 7th grade being much meaner than high school.

Me too. When I was in school, it was common for children to have to repeat the school year. So in my grade there were some girls that were almost a year and a half older than me. I remember this one girl asked me if I knew what a sexual term meant. I didn’t know, and I was teased about it and called a “goodie goodie”. She’d bring it up all the time.

I ran into her as an adult, and almost had a panic attack.

 

[Xantippe]

Well, I have a former boss who I truly have come to believe is a sociopath. A person who simply cannot tell the truth about anything, and who insists that EVERYTHING that happens, everything that is ever said, or done, is really a rejection of them.
I heard this person talk about how rejected they were as a child by parents, half-siblings, peers…they told these stories with much laughter, as anecdotes…but I wonder.

Sorry for the derailment, But it got me thinking,

Back to the OP.
npatrol:

Or, the boss could have always been an awful kid.

One of my daughter’s classmates was like that.

 

[Xantippe]

I think Xantippe mentioned it’s the end of the year. Which is a good thing.

YES!!!

The chessboard gets reset over the summer.

 

[pianistclare]

YES!!!

The chessboard gets reset over the summer.

Boy, isn’t that the truth, especially with girls. Best friends don’t speak in subsequent years, only to become best friends again in 2 years.

 

[mommy_k]

It’s best to nip things in the bud before they are old enough for facebook. Who knows what this other girl is capable of doing on there.

 

[Irishmom2]

It’s best to nip things in the bud before they are old enough for facebook. Who knows what this other girl is capable of doing on there.

Yes, once that starts, it is never ending. However, some children will bully others that they are not even FB friends with. It doesn’t stop them. I will say that FB was one problem many of us did not encounter growing up. Now, unfortunately, it seems to have taken over as many people’s social life. It is best to put off FB for children as long as possible.

 

[UbiCaritas]

Believe me, homeschool circles aren’t immune to this sort of thing, either.

While I didn’t really have friends at that age, my next-youngest sister had a fair number. When she was about 12ish, she and two other girls became friends, but then the group got a very unhealthy dynamic. One of the girls was a bit more of a leader, and seemed to enjoy playing the other two off of each other. She’d be best friends with one one week, and the other the next week, and whoever wasn’t the best friend of the week would be treated very badly by both of the other girls.

Of the three, I know one quite well as an adult (ie, kid sister), and know a little about one of the others. Sis is a delightful, kind, successful adult who’d never behave like that now. The other girl left college in order to raise her younger siblings after her mother died unexpectedly; while I don’t know anything else about her, I’d say that that fact alone, coupled with the fact that her younger siblings have continued to do well in school (high school and, later college) while she took care of them and the much younger kids says something pretty positive about her character.

This doesn’t excuse the initial bad behavior at all, and it’s something I would nip in the bud to the best of my ability as a parent for, at least, the more egregious stuff (“if you invite Sally and Mary to your home, as the hostess you are responsible to make sure they both feel welcome, and you do not get to invite one here to help you treat the other badly,”) but it’s neither limited strictly to school kids nor does it mean the kids will turn into rabidly nasty adults, either.

 

[pensmama87]

Well, it’s actually more a junior high than a high school phenomenon.

I remember 6th and 7th grade being much meaner than high school.

That depends. I remember that being true for me, although there was still some meanness in high school. Most of the victims had learned to reasonably shake off a lot of it so there was less interest in us as targets.

Still, though, last week we went out for ice cream after the Pentecost vigil and got to hear about several mean-spirited tricks some high schoolers had planned for a girl celebrating her quinceañera that night - and they were invitees to the party (though admittedly, parents might have more control over the invite list for a party like that.) Also several discussions about “well, she was my friend, but now she’s not, but she thinks she is” about not only that girl but several other teens, some present, some not.

I suppose, for some teens, when you don’t have real responsibilities, you have to invent things to keep your mind occupied. (It has seemed to me that teens who have actual real responsibilities either grow out of drama faster or don’t let it touch them.)